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How Would YOU Define an "OP" Tank?

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Poll: How Would You Describe An "OP" Tank? (154 members have cast votes)

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How Would YOU Describe The Term "OP" In Reference To Tanks?

  1. The tank itself is completely overpowered. It takes next-to-no brainpower to play the tank and is in urgent need of a "nerf". (88 votes [57.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.14%

  2. The tank is good, though the driver has some sense of how to play it. In this tank, I could probably do well, though to play it really well, it would take some skill on my part. (30 votes [19.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.48%

  3. Both the power of the tank and player skill are equal in playing it. The tank is okay, though having skill will take it a long way. (11 votes [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  4. The power of the tank has nothing to do with whether a tank is classed as being "OP". It is solely down to the player. A tank is only ever good if the player driving the thing is good; the term "OP" is irrelevant. (5 votes [3.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.25%

  5. I honestly couldn't care less, (^^). (10 votes [6.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.49%

  6. Other, (if so, please specify in a post of your own). (10 votes [6.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.49%

If You Answered With Either Options 1 or 2, What Tanks Would You Say Were Currently Over-Powered?

  1. I don't really know. (73 votes [47.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.40%

  2. Here's my suggestion(s), (if so, please specify your selected tank in a post). (81 votes [52.60%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.60%

Thank You For Taking The Time To Vote, I Really Appreciate It!

  1. No problem! (73 votes [48.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.99%

  2. Meh, it was alright, I guess. (31 votes [20.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.81%

  3. Hmff! (45 votes [30.20%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.20%

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Pandabird #41 Posted 29 April 2015 - 11:01 AM

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Dunno but i see OP as tanks that 1vs1 are hard to beat no matter who plays it.

 

The toughest tank to beat for me is the IS-7.

 

So there he rumbles in and goes hulldown. What can you do? You sling a few HE shells near his gun hoping to reduce his accuracy, he's unbeatable from that angle so you are left with the choices to retreat or flank.

 

Even if he's an idiot and just stands in the open, penning him from the front is really tricky, is the angle enough to pen the ufp? 80% of the time it's not. Is the angle enough to pen the lfp? maybe. it's a potshot sometimes and from a distance hitting such a small hitbox is really hard, up close the angle from aiming down your gun takes effect and makes that lfp armor more effective as well.

 

more often than not flanking is impossible due to massive fire support behind him, but if the situation calls for it, all he needs to do is turn a little while you try and circle him to make his side armor more effective.

 

So you track him to keep him immobile so you can pummel his side/rear, but at this point the damage trading has already turned in his favour. You end up dead and the is-7 rolls on.

 

This tank just screams for people to use premium ammo against it, something i hardly ever use.

 

OP? Don't know, i see far more bad players than good players playing it, pretty sure people would pad it 24/7 if that's the case.

 

But difficult to beat in another (lesser) tank? very.

 

 

I mean even IS-4 pales in its comparison, has worse hull AND a turret weakspot.

 

 

 

(this is just my experience, keep in mind i don't have *any* tier X heavys/TD's)


Edited by Pandabird, 29 April 2015 - 11:04 AM.


low550 #42 Posted 29 April 2015 - 11:08 AM

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View PostXRey360, on 16 December 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

OverPowered Tank: Vehicle able to heavily change the normal average gameplay without care of the tier, opponents or map being used on.

 

so... arty ?

GGram #43 Posted 29 April 2015 - 11:30 AM

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Imo there is currently only one "OP" tank in the game that needs a nerf- the t67 (as mentioned by quite a lot in this thread).

 

 

Then there's "great tanks" that are able to  influence games to a higher degree than other tanks of its tier. What makes a tank great is imo its flexibility regardless of the map or opposing team composition. A few that comes to mind are 50B, E5, 140, 50M for tier X. 

 

Then there's broken tanks, which are not OP in most situations, but just game breaking. Imo this includes high tier arta, FV183 (and the new one) and Waffle.

 

GGram

 



ticklemonster #44 Posted 29 April 2015 - 11:42 AM

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For me an OP tank is one which is capable of getting good results while disregarding the normal gameplay for its type and tier - so someone who basically knows how to steer the vehicle and rotate the turret/fire the gun, and can get fire for effect badges in a majority of battles (Good players will always be able to counter such tanks, but the majority of the opponent teams are not good).

 

The one tank that really falls into that category, for me, is the KV-2 with the derp gun - it can one shot even mediums of its tier, and so severely damage higher tier mediums and some heavies as to force them to retreat. The slow reload does not matter, because the lighter tanks cannot deplete the KV-2's health pool before the second shot blows them apart. If the opposing medium/heavy bounces or misses one of its shots... its fate is sealed. If the driver of the KV-2 is sufficiently aware to use a handy rock/building or keep the company of a quicker firing ally then taking one on is impossible unless you are likewise part of a group. Even then, the KV-2 will often do its own hp pool in damage before going down. In many cases, the real difference between a poor KV-2 driver and a good one is the ability to keep the tank alive and continue to do damage once the initial exchange of fire has happened.



maroar #45 Posted 29 April 2015 - 03:28 PM

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I don't care as much for OP tanks, as they will be nerfed sooner or later.

 

I only care for broken tanks, which are like GGram said the WTE100 and FV183/4004 (and ofcourse arty).

Might be some on lower tiers, which I don't know about ;D



SuperJimbo #46 Posted 29 April 2015 - 03:40 PM

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I would consider Tanks with high Alpha guns and high pen to be OP as they're really easy to play: Peek out, derp and fall back while reloading safely. Some HE derp guns seem lame and easy too for the same reasons.

Their single disadvantage can easily be countered by just pressing the "S" key and staying in cover for a couple seconds.

I don't own any 155mm armed tanks but when i played the FaiLöwe on a buddies acc. i found it to be very easy to play.

 

Tanks that are OP in the hands of good players are fine, as that should be the reward for learning the game and then having skill....

Tanks that are easy to play even in the hands of a noob are dumb and OP as they're too easy to do well in.


Edited by SuperJimbo, 29 April 2015 - 03:42 PM.


hgjwz #47 Posted 29 April 2015 - 03:41 PM

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Well for me its a tank which pretty much requires no thought on how to use it and still you can significantly impact the outcome of the game. Kv-1s and the early WT-E100 were perfect examples of such tanks.

 

Then there is the opposite end where tank truly becomes overpowered when you can totally master it and know how to abuse the op characteristic. This one is really arguable if it should remain that way because of the amount of effort you need to learn it or should it be nerfed.


Edited by hgjwz, 29 April 2015 - 03:43 PM.


ExclamationMark #48 Posted 29 April 2015 - 04:10 PM

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IS7 is the literal translation of OP armour and Obj 263s gun is the literal translation of OP gun. Russia, Russia, Russia.

Slyspy #49 Posted 29 April 2015 - 05:01 PM

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View PostCartoonVillain, on 29 April 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

I think an OP tank is one that allows you to have much better stats in it than your overall.

 

This doesn't really work for individuals since it rules out the possibility of improvement. 



PhooBar #50 Posted 29 April 2015 - 05:55 PM

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http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=0&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=won_lost_ratio&server=

Top 10 tanks, by WR only.

 

 

http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=0&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=damage_per_minute&server=

Top 10 tanks, by DPM

 

http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=0&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=efficiency_wn8&server=

Top 10 Tanks by WN8

 

 

Look for tanks that appear on all lists.

Draw your own conclusions.

I may have to start changing my garage around.

 Object 260 

 T 55A

Object 907

 M60

Maybe the AMX 30 B

 

The 105 leFH18B2 is the only arty on the list.

Gotta get me one of those.

 


Edited by PhooBar, 29 April 2015 - 06:23 PM.


Shnuks #51 Posted 29 April 2015 - 06:22 PM

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All those tanks are reward tanks and driven by better players. So the results aren't strange.

PhooBar #52 Posted 29 April 2015 - 06:26 PM

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So would you consider the tanks themselves to be better overall, or is it just that they are driven by better players?

 

Without premiums, for the rest of us proles.

^10 x WR

 

^10 x DPM

 

^10 x WN8

 

E 50 Ausf. M

AMX 30 1er prototype

STB-1

Object 263

Object 430

 

Once again, only one arty. Bishop

 

 

 


Edited by PhooBar, 29 April 2015 - 07:13 PM.


Raanaar #53 Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:34 PM

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if it has a red star on it, its OP :hiding:

HundeWurst #54 Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:34 PM

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View PostXRey360, on 16 December 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

OverPowered Tank: Vehicle able to heavily change the normal average gameplay without care of the tier, opponents or map being used on.

 

wow you just told us all the definition of arty itself :D

 

i would say by that arty is op but whatever.

 

op: even tomatoes perform better in that particular tank - wt e100 is best ebst example - you are not even able to deal 1.5k damage in your tier 10s? no problem here is a tank which clips any opponent with one clip and you are done.



RichardNixon #55 Posted 29 April 2015 - 09:05 PM

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View PostPhooBar, on 29 April 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

So would you consider the tanks themselves to be better overall, or is it just that they are driven by better players?

 

They definitely have better players, and that means you can't tell how strong they are without adjusting for that. The M60 is actually a pretty weak tank, for example.

 

This problem also occurs on non-premium tanks. Some tanks are much more likely to be played earlier in a career, for example the E-100 and IS-7 lines, and this hurts their average performance. Some tanks are also far more likely to be played elite than others.

 

You can correct for all of this, but the method is fairly complex.

 



camels13 #56 Posted 30 April 2015 - 04:10 PM

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View PostPhooBar, on 29 April 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

So would you consider the tanks themselves to be better overall, or is it just that they are driven by better players?

 

Without premiums, for the rest of us proles.

^10 x WR

 

^10 x DPM

 

^10 x WN8

 

E 50 Ausf. M

AMX 30 1er prototype

STB-1

Object 263

Object 430

 

Once again, only one arty. Bishop

 

 

 

 

dude... just showing a list like this doesnt tell you anything. rightly you ask whether those good tanks are played mostly by good players. so to get actually a meaningful statistic, you would have to normalize those numbers by the average winrate (for example) of the players that play them. such statistics are available, and linked in a previous post i believe. nice try though.

 

 



Baldrickk #57 Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:34 PM

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OP:

  • Has both:
    • Very high skill ceiling
    • Very low skill floor

For those who don't know what the terms mean:

  • Skill ceiling
    • The (maximum) level of skill that gets the most out of the tank where the performance matches or excededs that of other tanks (played by the same player)
  • Skill floor:
    • The minimum level of skill needed to get a performance out of the tank that equals or exceeds that of other tanks (played by the same player)

Or to put it a different way, the measure of OP is not where the ceiling or floor is, but the difference between them.

 

A tank with low ceiling and floor will be n00b friendly, but you will struggle to get a lot out of it.

A tank with high ceiling and floor requires skill to play, and for a skilled player, will perform better.

 

Now what happens when these don't overlap? Will the more skill requiring tank pwn the other tank all the time?

 

Well yes and no.

If the noobs stick to the 'n00b tenk' and the pros to the 'pr0 tank' then yes, you will most likely see the pro tank winning more often.  But that is down to the player being better in that case, both players are in tanks best suited to them.

What if you reverse the tanks?

Well both players will play below their "best". The thing is, the floor and ceiling are not absolutes; "you will allways do this well in tank x" or "you can only do this well in tank y". The "pro" will do worse than he would in the "pro tank" but it doesn't stop him from having more of an inpact on the game as the noob would have. As the noob won't have the skill required to hit the skill floor of the "pro tank", it is likely that he will perform worse than average in it.

Pro still wins. (on average).

 

Both perform worse than they would do in the tanks that best suit them. The difference between them remains constant, but with many different people of all abilities playing the tanks, overall, they are no better or worse than any other balanced tank.

 

An OP tank on the other hand lets everyone do well. (low floor, high ceiling).

This leads to it out-performing all of its peers.

 

To extend this to tank classes/types.  The most common cries of OP are arty and autoloaders.

 

Arty is low floor, low ceiling. A newbie can jump in and do moderately well, probably better than rushing into the enemy in any other class. A pro will do better, but usually, not as well as another type of tank.

Arty is balanced.  That is not to say that the mechanic isnt broken.  The combination high alpha and high rng is rage inducing on both sides of the gun.

 

Autoloaders are the opposite. They require a certain amount of skill to pump out more than one clip of damage (how many WT E100s do you see that don't even get to fire an entire clip before dying? It is quite a high proportion).  The skill isn't in pumping out damage, anyone can do that, it is doing it and getting away to reload.  

The burst gives a high skill ceiling, the survival aspect provides the high floor.

Overall, they don't perform particularly better than any other tank.  Some may. But that is individual stats.

You will notice that they do perform a little bit better on average than other tanks, but this is more due to them being good tanks for good players (so they are played by a higher ratio of good:bad players).

 

If you want, I can provide examples and / or diagrams. When I get home.



Salentine #58 Posted 30 April 2015 - 08:51 PM

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why no SU-76I :P

canofbees #59 Posted 20 February 2017 - 11:06 PM

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The old T57 arty level 2 is sadly missed by me. Loved that gun but I can see they pulled it as it was too good.  Gone off arty now but just have a go in my Grille which is the best of what is left.

TRXnMe #60 Posted 20 February 2017 - 11:44 PM

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Any tank that a complete spud like me can win in on an above average basis :)

 

Having said that tanks I have played that I think are OP aren't always the ones I win in....  I don't rate the German turretless TD line as OP, but my win rate in Stug III G, Jagpanzer and JagPanther are over 50%...

 

Of the tanks I have played that I think are OP the IS-3 come first on the list.






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