Jump to content


IN MEMORIAM


  • Please log in to reply
96 replies to this topic

T0byJug #21 Posted 17 December 2014 - 04:33 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19481 battles
  • 1,700
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    05-05-2013

View Postinit_0, on 17 December 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

I just pointed out that I find these calculations by the companies of how much money they "lost" (or correctly: potentially didn't earn) more then laughable.

 

Just look at Microsoft for example: for years and years they released their software without any copy protection what so ever (while other companies at that time were already spending large sums to try and combat piracy). This allowed for the Microsoft applications and especially operating systems to spread much further then they ever would have if every Windows user would have had to pay 200$. Then, after 15 years of spreading their easy-to-pirate software and thereby securing their monopoly in the PC market they turn around and implemented a copy protection because now they've already got everyone by the balls (and also, by that time, pretty much every new computer was being sold with a pre-installed version of Windows - which might not have been the case if they didn't manage to establish their de facto monopoly beforehand). It also robbed many people of their motivation to perhaps try a different OS (like linux) because they could just as well have the Microsoft OS for free (which in turn meant that most software - especially consumer software - was being released for Windows exclusively).

 

I'd go so far as to claim that this was a calculated step by Microsoft to ensure that their OS would spread as quickly as possible, thereby opening the door for them to make contracts with the computer manufacturers so they sell every computer with an OEM license of Windows (often without giving the buyer any choice in the matter).

 

I never said anything about stealing or what my personal feeling is towards software piracy.

 

What Microsoft have Always had a Monopoly on PC's since day 1.  Liinux was a late entry into the home user market that never managed to take the lead.

Short history lesson

 

IBM created the first commercially viable PC. They got a company to create the operating system. (Seattle computing) Microsoft bought Seattle computing  since then they have held the monopoly on the PC operating systems.

 

Microsoft have always had copy protection. (Licence Keys) and other stuff but they had to balance the copy protection against usability. First copyright protection for games used to be a book with a code on each page that you had to type in to play the game! imagen if you had to do the same thing every time you started you computer! and how would a business work with hundreds of computers.

 

Fact most operating system hacks for Win 95/97 and 1000 licence keys were Company corp keys that had been copied.

Another way the licence keys were breached was the algorithm that checed these numbers was hacked thus enabling people to create keys.

Remember Pre  wide internet use Microsoft could not force users to veryfy there licence with a licence server 

 

I agree the software comapnys saying x Million $'s were lost in revenue as y Millon copies of there software has been pirated is wrong it would probably be Y divided 100 0000. But it is still stealing.

 

 

 

 



Bizolol #22 Posted 17 December 2014 - 05:10 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 20225 battles
  • 315
  • Member since:
    04-17-2012

That x million $'s lost due to piracy is pure BS. If they can't use it for free, pirates will find a substitute that is free.



Jigabachi #23 Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:08 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 17948 battles
  • 21,021
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-12-2011

It's stealing, so I'm glad that all those portals get shut down every now and then. Sadly, governments are still too lazy to come up with propper laws when it comes to internet and digital goods. 

But the excuses and arguments people use to defend all that stealing are quite entertaining.


Edited by Jigabachi, 17 December 2014 - 06:26 PM.


Ew_ #24 Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:20 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 37591 battles
  • 3,421
  • [E-50M] E-50M
  • Member since:
    04-18-2011

View PostJigabachi, on 17 December 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

It's stealing, so I'm glad that all those portals get shut down every now and then. Sadly, governments are still to lazy to come up with propper laws when it comes to internet and digital goods. 

But the excuses and arguments people use to defend all that stealing are quite entertaining.

 



Addicus #25 Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:30 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 29224 battles
  • 872
  • Member since:
    09-30-2012
Next thing you know, people will want a Free-to-play video game. And after they get it, they'll complain endlessly on the forums about it.

Jigabachi #26 Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:31 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 17948 battles
  • 21,021
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-12-2011

I actually don't care about those numbers. I care about basic principles:

 

Things cost money. If you don't pay for them, you are a thief.



UNARMOURED #27 Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:35 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 38577 battles
  • 1,645
  • Member since:
    11-20-2012

View PostJigabachi, on 17 December 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

It's stealing, so I'm glad that all those portals get shut down every now and then. Sadly, governments are still to lazy to come up with propper laws when it comes to internet and digital goods.

But the excuses and arguments people use to defend all that stealing are quite entertaining.

 

That's the funniest thing about it. All the excuses people use to explain away why they take something without paying for it.

 

None of them are valid. Well, at least outside of the something for nothing, feeling of entitlement, I must have everything (regardless of whether I need it, or will use it), "ooh the evil corporations deserve it" bubble they inhabit. Apparently, nothing they do has any impact, whatsoever, on the world around them.

 

Ironically though, in many cases, if the tiniest butterfly in the Amazon flaps it's wings in the wrong way and it's the end of world as they know it.

 

I have more respect for people who say "I just want stuff without paying for it". Admittedly though, that is very little.



Slyspy #28 Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:06 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 14703 battles
  • 17,459
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-07-2011
Piracy of this sort is not theft. It is not stealing. Even if caught and prosecuted you will not be up for theft. It is breach of copyright.

Jigabachi #29 Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:16 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 17948 battles
  • 21,021
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-12-2011

View PostSlyspy, on 17 December 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

Piracy of this sort is not theft. It is not stealing. Even if caught and prosecuted you will not be up for theft. It is breach of copyright.

True. But it still boils down to the same thing: You take stuff "for free" you normally have to pay for.



ammarmar #30 Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:27 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 33240 battles
  • 2,878
  • Member since:
    01-29-2011

View PostJigabachi, on 17 December 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

True. But it still boils down to the same thing: You take stuff "for free" you normally have to pay for.

 

The definition of what is "normal to pay for" is up to discussion and subject to change.

 

Copyrights are not Ten Commandments.

 

In my personal opinion, the whole music/movie industry lives back in 20th century with their backward ideas of how to sell stuff.

It's like they did not even notice that now there's YouTube, Netflix, MP3 player in every phone... They need to adapt or die out.


Edited by ammarmar, 17 December 2014 - 07:28 PM.


com__ #31 Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:33 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 48742 battles
  • 280
  • [HA-TE] HA-TE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2011

View PostJigabachi, on 17 December 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

It's stealing, so I'm glad that all those portals get shut down every now and then. Sadly, governments are still too lazy to come up with propper laws when it comes to internet and digital goods. 

But the excuses and arguments people use to defend all that stealing are quite entertaining.

 

Wanna talk about real stealing?

 

What about the huge media/software companies who pass all their profits through off-shore tax havens, meaning governments have less revenue to provide healthcare, social security and other services?

Then the multinational companies who declare profits in low tax jurisdictions but off-set expenses in higher taxed countries?

When these companies pay their full and proper tax I will condemn those who try to avoid buying their monopoly goods.

What is fair for one is fair for all.



mad0mat #32 Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:34 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 14544 battles
  • 2,207
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    03-21-2012
They can take out as many such sites as they want - all it will do is spawn more resilient ones. If only all that money that we pay for movies/music/games/software was going to actual creators I would buy every single thing. Since most of it goes to useless people in some studios or to publishers ( in a freaking INTERNET era... Go figure how behind all of them are... And don't mind telling me about games - how it can be that on Steam prices are freaking SAME as with hard copies?) I really won't bother buying a thing.

Edited by mad0mat, 17 December 2014 - 07:36 PM.


Gloris #33 Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:45 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19748 battles
  • 1,691
  • Member since:
    08-14-2011

People pirate a game, if they like it they might buy it later when they would otherwise never touched it, i know of a like ~10 people who started out with a cracked version of minecraft because they didn't want to pay money for, what they then thought was such a dumb children game, after they got hooked they all went to buy it.

 

People pirate music, if they like it they will go to concerts of the band, buy merchandise, buy future albums.

 

People pirate movies and TV series , later they buy merchandise and DvDs/Bluerays.  (pretty sure a lot of people who got into series like Game of Thrones or the Walking dead would have not gotten into it without illegal/gray-zone[depending where you are] online streams. )

 

Things are a lot more grey then either side makes it out to be.


Edited by Gloris, 17 December 2014 - 07:48 PM.


CremeFraiche #34 Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:51 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 24041 battles
  • 1,457
  • Member since:
    10-21-2011

View PostGloris, on 17 December 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

People pirate a game, if they like it they might buy it later when they would otherwise never touched it, i know of a like ~10 people who started out with a cracked version of minecraft because they didn't want to pay money for, what they then thought was such a dumb children game, after they got hooked they all went to buy it.

 

People pirate music, if they like it they will go to concerts of the band, buy merchandise, buy future albums.

 

People pirate movies and TV series , later they buy merchandise and DvDs/Bluerays.  (pretty sure a lot of people who got into series like Game of Thrones or the Walking dead would have not gotten into it without illegal/gray-zone[depending where you are] online streams. )

 

Things are a lot more grey then either side makes it out to be.

 

It sounds like when I went to school back in the days.

A policeman passed around some weed in the classroom and told us that if we try we will eventually end up in the alley smoking crack.

So, people try the game (weed), find out they like it and then buy the real deal (crack)? :great:



Monalie #35 Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:59 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 23354 battles
  • 124
  • Member since:
    03-13-2011

View PostBrokenWing, on 17 December 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Yep, it's stealing and criminal, no 2 ways about it.

 

You want to listen to a song? Pay the 99p you cheapo.

 

You want to play a game? Pay the £30 you cheapo.

 

You want to watch a film? Rent it for £3.50 you cheapo, or for a better experience go the cinema, see it in full big screen / audio glory and pay the £5 you cheapo.

 

You want to edit some photos? Get cheap / free packages online like Paint.Net you cheapo. You really need all the Adobe bells and whistles? Really? Then cough up.

 

You can go to the cinema for £5????????    That is 1984 prices:)

Codename_Jelly #36 Posted 17 December 2014 - 08:02 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 17715 battles
  • 5,299
  • Member since:
    08-04-2013

View PostBrokenWing, on 17 December 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

 

 

You want to watch a film? Rent it for £3.50 you cheapo, or for a better experience go the cinema, see it in full big screen / audio glory and pay the £5 you cheapo.

 

 

£5 for a film ?????

 

 

On what planet is the Cinema £5, has not been £5 for years.

Codename_Jelly #37 Posted 17 December 2014 - 08:06 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 17715 battles
  • 5,299
  • Member since:
    08-04-2013
btw, since Hallmark Channel was pulled in UK and all this regional bull is in place the only place I can get hallmark films to watch is through stuff like this.

Codename_Jelly #38 Posted 17 December 2014 - 08:07 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 17715 battles
  • 5,299
  • Member since:
    08-04-2013

View PostJigabachi, on 17 December 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

True. But it still boils down to the same thing: You take stuff "for free" you normally have to pay for.

 

What about the shows / films that are not released onto DVD, if they are too lazy to release stuff onto physical media then tough ****

Capus #39 Posted 17 December 2014 - 08:09 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 38741 battles
  • 1,785
  • Member since:
    05-13-2012

View PostJigabachi, on 17 December 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

I actually don't care about those numbers. I care about basic principles:

 

Things cost money. If you don't pay for them, you are a thief.

 

Meh, in Belgium we haven't been able to access TPB for years now, so not gonna change much for me. But it's a pitty that they are gone now for the rest of you.

 

But what is the greatest theft. Silly movies/producers/programmers overpricing their products bigtime, or ppl telling them to shove it.

Ask a decent price and I won't have any problem paying, ask stupid prices and I simply won't. I actualy prefer having original CD's, but at the price that those things go, it's impossible. And don't go on the 'if there was no illegal copying they would be cheaper nonsense', because their price has always been ridiculously high, even before the onset of the internet.

 

View PostBrokenWing, on 17 December 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

 

You want to watch a film? Rent it for £3.50 you cheapo, or for a better experience go the cinema, see it in full big screen / audio glory and pay the £5 you cheapo.

 

 

What planet do you live on. Here for 5 you would just about cover the price for parking your car. And then you are left sniffing garbage cans to get the popcorn feeling whilst looking at the billboards outside imagining what the film is like.
 
Also, modern cinema's are annoying as dfqdqg to me. Music too loud, then there's those subwoofers, seats that are large enough to just not be too small. Enough leggspace for a smurf, and an annoying guy in front of you talking on his phone, whilst the crackling of the chipsbag from the guy to your side manages to overpower even the sound of the speakers. And now i'm not even going into that 'super ultra mega high def picture quality' which for me adds nothing to the visual experience, and only makes me nauseous.
 
The only thing that can get me in there is the nagging of my daughter.
 
I'm lucky that we still have a rubbish cinema here from the 70's, where you can sit decently, don't need earplugs, and since everyone goes to the big funky cinema's, you have all the room you want. And on top of that, you can actualy go there at the price of a ticket for a big cinema, whilst also eating all the popcorn and big coke's that you want. Without any parking fee. Now that I will pay for gladly.
 
Not everyone likes the over the top sound and visual experience that modern cinemas have to offer. And making me pay ridiculous prices for them is what forces me to dl, that way I can at least watch them in a setting that I enjoy.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Edited by Capus, 17 December 2014 - 08:21 PM.


Codename_Jelly #40 Posted 17 December 2014 - 08:09 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 17715 battles
  • 5,299
  • Member since:
    08-04-2013

View PostJigabachi, on 17 December 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

It's stealing, so I'm glad that all those portals get shut down every now and then. Sadly, governments are still too lazy to come up with propper laws when it comes to internet and digital goods. 

But the excuses and arguments people use to defend all that stealing are quite entertaining.

 

Same can be said for products on sale that are overpriced, one prime example is the iphone.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users