Jump to content


IN MEMORIAM


  • Please log in to reply
96 replies to this topic

Jigabachi #41 Posted 17 December 2014 - 08:11 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 17948 battles
  • 21,021
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-12-2011

View Postammarmar, on 17 December 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

The definition of what is "normal to pay for" is up to discussion and subject to change.

[...]

In my personal opinion, the whole music/movie industry lives back in 20th century with their backward ideas of how to sell stuff.

View Postcom__, on 17 December 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

When these companies pay their full and proper tax I will condemn those who try to avoid buying their monopoly goods.

What is fair for one is fair for all.

That's all right ofc. But the answer to all that stuff should be boycotting it and supporting alternatives.

E.g.: I hate the games industry at the moment, so I don't buy any games and instead support indiegames/kickstarter projects.

 

View PostCodename_Jelly, on 17 December 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

Same can be said for products on sale that are overpriced, one prime example is the iphone.

("It's too expensive for me, so it's completely ok to steal it.")

Yes, it's overpriced. That's the reason why I won't buy it or any similar products. Simples.

 

View PostCodename_Jelly, on 17 December 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

What about the shows / films that are not released onto DVD, if they are too lazy to release stuff onto physical media then tough ****

("If I can't get it on DVD, I'll steal a digital copy.")

Then live with it or convince them to release it on DVD. OR simply buy it as a digital copy.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Jigabachi, 17 December 2014 - 08:19 PM.


Jigabachi #42 Posted 17 December 2014 - 08:19 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 17948 battles
  • 21,021
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-12-2011
*double post*

Edited by Jigabachi, 17 December 2014 - 08:19 PM.


Sapaki #43 Posted 17 December 2014 - 09:18 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 9332 battles
  • 1,619
  • [SGTA] SGTA
  • Member since:
    02-26-2012

As expected, bobs trying to explain why piracy is a good thing.

 

Guys get real. People worked for this crap they deserved to get paid period. If you don't like the price don't pay it.

 

People making stuff available for "free" are still paid one way or the other, so if you are in for freeware and free movies be my guest.

 

You can criticize film, music or game industry all you like, but this does not give you the right to take advantage of their work without paying.

 

All this pro-piracy arguments are thin for the least. 

 

Do you like films? Support them by paying. There are cheap alternatives, always. You like a band? Pay them and their label. You like games? Pay for the studio and the developers.

 

What is wrong with people thinking that it's their prerogative to get something people have put effort into without paying?

 

If it's freely available somewhere, be it youtube or radio, be my guest, but if it is not don't lie to your self and others. Whatever way you look at it you are robbing people out of their money.

 

Don't be spoiled brats and learn to support the industries and the products you like by actually paying for them!


Edited by Sapaki, 17 December 2014 - 09:18 PM.


Sapaki #44 Posted 17 December 2014 - 09:27 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 9332 battles
  • 1,619
  • [SGTA] SGTA
  • Member since:
    02-26-2012

View PostSlyspy, on 17 December 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

Piracy of this sort is not theft. It is not stealing. Even if caught and prosecuted you will not be up for theft. It is breach of copyright.

 

The only reason it is called copyright infringement and not theft, it is because the good protected is not material. It is exactly the same thing though.

 

And even if legally there might be nuances depending in which country you reside, you are still getting advantage of the hard work of other people without paying them. I am sorry but this does not make the act less disgusting according to my code of ethics.



Red_Dragon_Firkraag #45 Posted 17 December 2014 - 09:40 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 16382 battles
  • 1,682
  • Member since:
    08-13-2011

View PostIngaric, on 17 December 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

And nowadays it's impossible to get a proper record deal, so I am not complaining about the end of the pirate bay.

What Pirate Bay was for music Youtube, Vimeo, etc. will be. There'd be no other reason for Youtube downloader tools.

Sorry for your loss, but you can't just live from art.



Addicus #46 Posted 17 December 2014 - 10:00 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 29233 battles
  • 872
  • Member since:
    09-30-2012

View PostCodename_Jelly, on 17 December 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

 

Same can be said for products on sale that are overpriced, one prime example is the iphone.

 

The i-phone isn't over priced. It's priced exactly so suckers the market will buy it.

My Mercedes on the other hand is worth every penny. :)



Hullo_Kitty__ #47 Posted 17 December 2014 - 10:06 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Clan Diplomat
  • 16215 battles
  • 963
  • Member since:
    06-15-2013

I started pirating stuff a few years ago when the whole "early access - test it now - never see a finished version" and "release now, patch later" trend in gaming started. I bought a few games that turned out to be huge buggy piles of unifinished junk. There was a time where people were getting paid for beta-testing games. Now we have to pay to the very same job.

 

So I pirate stuff and test it for free. If it's greedy moneygrab shite I will uninstall after 30 mins of play and be happy. If I like the game and it makes a nice professional impression on me I will buy it. There are games that I even bought twice (to gift it to someone or so) because I thought that the developers did a job that deserves my money.

 

The disappearance of TPB is obviously inconvinient for me, as I'm unable to pirate anything. But here the huge thinking mistake of the big moneygrabbing companies kicks in. I'm not gonna browse steam now and spend $500 a week on random junk games rubbed in my face. Instead I'm going to play the 50 games I already own and not buy anything else. It's inconvinient for me I admit, but from an economical perspective it's even worse for someone else.

 

Considering movies. I pirate them a lot. But I also go a lot to cinema. My issue there is that in Switzerland, dunno bout other countries, DVDs of recent quality movies cost up to 25€. When I've  already paid 30€ for watching the thing in the cinema, there is no way I'm gonna pay again so much for a DVD that costed like 20 cents to produce. I buy DVDs if they are below 8-10€. But 25€ for a disk that still spams me with f**** annoying advertisments? Nope.

 

What the industry doesn't realise is that there are two kinds of people:

1) The dudes who spend their money generously, like to support people, like the comfortable way of quickly aquiring stuff and just buy the stuff they want.

2) More penny pinching peeps like me who are more aware (greedy) of what to do with their money and insist on spending it only on deals that seem economically decent.

 

Type 1 already buys stuff.

Type 2, who takes hours of searching, downloading etc, will never switch his/her behaviour just like that and walk into a DVD shop throwing cash all around. I will just stop going to cinema so i can afford the DVD later or record the movie when it airs on TV.

 

Speaking for me personally, they can cut off my entire internet, I will not be spedning a single cent more because of that. Rather less actually.


Edited by Hullo_Kitty__, 17 December 2014 - 10:09 PM.


Slyspy #48 Posted 17 December 2014 - 10:47 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 14824 battles
  • 17,550
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-07-2011

View PostCodename_Jelly, on 17 December 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

btw, since Hallmark Channel was pulled in UK and all this regional bull is in place the only place I can get hallmark films to watch is through stuff like this.

 

I've changed my mind. Piracy is evil.

 

View PostSapaki, on 17 December 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

 

The only reason it is called copyright infringement and not theft, it is because the good protected is not material. It is exactly the same thing though.

 

And even if legally there might be nuances depending in which country you reside, you are still getting advantage of the hard work of other people without paying them. I am sorry but this does not make the act less disgusting according to my code of ethics.

 

 

The reason it is not theft is because you are not denying the owner the use of that item by removing it from their possession. It is still legally and ethically wrong, but it cannot be theft.


Edited by Slyspy, 17 December 2014 - 10:52 PM.


caronmickeydevries #49 Posted 17 December 2014 - 10:55 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27827 battles
  • 1,002
  • Member since:
    04-09-2011

View PostHullo_Kitty__, on 17 December 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

I started pirating stuff a few years ago when the whole "early access - test it now - never see a finished version" and "release now, patch later" trend in gaming started. I bought a few games that turned out to be huge buggy piles of unifinished junk. There was a time where people were getting paid for beta-testing games. Now we have to pay to the very same job.

 

Exactly this. Back in the old times developers released Demos of their games so people could try it and decide if they want to buy it. CD/DVD's in PC Mags. were loaded with game demos. Then the market turned into crapall kind of crap games were flooding the market, because publishers got greedy and forced the poor devs to release games unfinished or bug infested. The devs and publishers knew it is crap so no more demos. Because then people would have know and wouldnt have bought the game.

 

So yes today i pirate alot of things to see if it is worth my money. If it is, then i go and buy it. I have more than 75 bought games on my steam acc. With companies i had good experiences with and liked they earlier games, then i just buy the game straight away. Like i did with Starcraft 2 and i plan to do with GTA V for PC. I also spend a good amount of cash on supporting indie games or kickstarter projects, like Star Citizen or Elite Dangerous.

 

 

 



Adwaenyth #50 Posted 17 December 2014 - 11:14 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 19570 battles
  • 2,778
  • [F_D] F_D
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011

View PostJigabachi, on 17 December 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:

I actually don't care about those numbers. I care about basic principles:

 

Things cost money. If you don't pay for them, you are a thief.

 

I can agree that most things actually do cost money... The problem is, a film, a piece of music, a software - these aren't things. They are information, they are ideas nowadays usually written in digital form on a hard drive. You can't steal an idea, especially not an idea that has been made public already. That is simply impossible. 

 

The work leading up to that is something different. That artists and their staff need to live of something is the only reason, that they should be compensated in the form of money for this work. But that has nothing to do with stealing anything from them. They want to make their thoughts public.



Addicus #51 Posted 17 December 2014 - 11:15 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 29233 battles
  • 872
  • Member since:
    09-30-2012

View PostSlyspy, on 17 December 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Piracy of this sort is not theft. It is not stealing. Even if caught and prosecuted you will not be up for theft. It is breach of copyright.

 

 

The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997 in response to LaMacchia, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement under certain circumstances, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50%.

 

Now I realize that Europeans are not subject to American laws (as long as you stay across the pond), but European law tends to be even more strict on this sort of things. Just because you get away with something 99 times, or try to justify it all you want, doesn't mean you won't be hammered on the 100th attempt. Just remember, Piracy is illegal.



Slyspy #52 Posted 17 December 2014 - 11:31 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 14824 battles
  • 17,550
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-07-2011

View PostAddicus, on 17 December 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

 

 

The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997 in response to LaMacchia, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement under certain circumstances, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50%.

 

Now I realize that Europeans are not subject to American laws (as long as you stay across the pond), but European law tends to be even more strict on this sort of things. Just because you get away with something 99 times, or try to justify it all you want, doesn't mean you won't be hammered on the 100th attempt. Just remember, Piracy is illegal.

 

Copyright infringement.


Edited by Slyspy, 17 December 2014 - 11:31 PM.


Addicus #53 Posted 17 December 2014 - 11:41 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 29233 battles
  • 872
  • Member since:
    09-30-2012

View PostSlyspy, on 17 December 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

 

Copyright infringement.

 

The word 'Theft' is right there in the law's title. It's technically theft via copyright infringment.

Somnorila #54 Posted 18 December 2014 - 03:42 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 57887 battles
  • 2,224
  • Member since:
    10-13-2012
Access to information, art, in a whole as knowledge is not stealing. If you lock it behind a wall of greed and need to pay to be allowed access for me that is stealing. It's the result of many and with knowledge from our entire life as a species. This is not only about digital piracy but much more aspects of our life, for instance education where if you are misfortunate to be born in a poor country, family or even without parents you are basically fucked for life and only if some extraordinary events happen you may have what for the rich, the ones that pay, comes easy and natural. I'm not saying that the economy is something bad, without it we would live in a worse world but going that far as pretending that digital piracy is a burden for the economy by estimating loses is completely untrue. Through "piracy" many wonderful creations reach a wider range of people, is the ultimate advertising channel where products are rated on their quality. Positive reactions bring sales that otherwise would not happen. Hype reaches beyond the borders of interest and completely free so don't say that piracy is bad piracy is stealing bla bla bla and all that false mambo jambo because without it The Net, our views, our world would be a lot more dim.

Dominico #55 Posted 18 December 2014 - 03:46 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 6729 battles
  • 771
  • Member since:
    03-24-2011

View PostBrokenWing, on 17 December 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

Yep, it's stealing and criminal, no 2 ways about it.

 

You want to listen to a song? Pay the 99p you cheapo.

 

You want to play a game? Pay the £30 you cheapo.

 

You want to watch a film? Rent it for £3.50 you cheapo, or for a better experience go the cinema, see it in full big screen / audio glory and pay the £5 you cheapo.

 

You want to edit some photos? Get cheap / free packages online like Paint.Net you cheapo. You really need all the Adobe bells and whistles? Really? Then cough up.

 

£5 for cinema? You clearly havent been recently you cheapo :p

 

Ps piracy only exists because things are too expensive. You go to asia you will get knock off copies of armani nike etc and there is no difference (often they are made on the sly in the same factories) this happens because the originals are overpriced. 

 

Make the price realistic (40 quid for a game download!!!  10 quid for a dvd download!?!??) Make them reasonable you get next to no piracy.

 

An example is games. Pc games were always classed as expensive because of piracy making it more expensive. .. yet on mediums where there is little piracy (in europe atleast) like ps4. The games are double price. In other words they will tell you any old bshit.

 

Also i agree with the guy who said its not lost profit. As most of thosr who download wont buy it anyway. And most of those who buy wont download!! 

 

Pps i dont download films or music.  I just dont think its a problem.


Edited by Dominico, 18 December 2014 - 03:52 AM.


ammarmar #56 Posted 18 December 2014 - 04:05 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 33550 battles
  • 2,879
  • Member since:
    01-29-2011

Buy a DVD:

- get forced to watch 10 minutes of trailers of other movies you don't give a F about

- and bunch of anti-piracy messages

- and then a movie

 

Go to the cinema:

- get forced to watch 10 minutes of trailers

- and 10 minutes of advertisements

- and then a movie

 

Download a movie

- watch a movie

 

Don't be parrots and stop mindlessly repeating BS about "theft". Dumb laws can be changed.



Balc0ra #57 Posted 18 December 2014 - 04:57 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 75761 battles
  • 22,128
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

Why are you all crying? There are more boats on the ocean with pirate flags then PB.... Its not even the best torrent site if I'm honest. Not used em in ages, tho I mostly only look for TV related stuff these days that is not actually illegal to host or download as such. Heck even most anime series are not illegal to download if they are not on DVD and its a TV stream AVI file. And PB is just a torrent host site. As in they share the same torrents with over 20 other sites that have the exact same content, so taking it down won't affect a thing. So if you want anything that was on PB. Odds are the tracker is still there hosted on 20 other sites as PB did not have anything via direct download on their site. They just told you where to get it.

 

But it won't be long before its back up I bet. Demonoid got back up after 6 months. EZTV was raided the same day PB was and was "released" later and they got all their PC's and servers back as they did not find any "pirated" content on their rigs. As they don't host it either. Their site IP is back up, but the main site is still not working yet.


Edited by Balc0ra, 18 December 2014 - 04:59 AM.


Adwaenyth #58 Posted 18 December 2014 - 07:55 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 19570 battles
  • 2,778
  • [F_D] F_D
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011

View PostAddicus, on 17 December 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

 

 

The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997 in response to LaMacchia, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement under certain circumstances, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50%.

 

Now I realize that Europeans are not subject to American laws (as long as you stay across the pond), but European law tends to be even more strict on this sort of things. Just because you get away with something 99 times, or try to justify it all you want, doesn't mean you won't be hammered on the 100th attempt. Just remember, Piracy is illegal.

 

And there is no theft in the german law:

 

Block Quote

 

§ 106
Unerlaubte Verwertung urheberrechtlich geschützter Werke

Illegal use of material under copyright protection

(1) Wer in anderen als den gesetzlich zugelassenen Fällen ohne Einwilligung des Berechtigten ein Werk oder eine Bearbeitung oder Umgestaltung eines Werkes vervielfältigt, verbreitet oder öffentlich wiedergibt, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft.

Whoever copies, distributes or displays any copyrighted material without authorization or outside the legally allowed cases will be sentenced to up to 3 years in prison or to pay a fine.

(2) Der Versuch ist strafbar.

The attempt is punishable.

 

No word ever of theft.



Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #59 Posted 18 December 2014 - 08:32 AM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 16045 battles
  • 3,143
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    03-18-2012

View PostVeryRisky, on 17 December 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

 

 Try reading 1984.  You'll find there are bigger issues than making it harder for you to steal software.

 

 

 

And the good thing is.... you legally do not have to pay anymore for the book 1984

Adwaenyth #60 Posted 18 December 2014 - 09:12 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 19570 battles
  • 2,778
  • [F_D] F_D
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011

View Postfverhoef, on 18 December 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

 

And the good thing is.... you legally do not have to pay anymore for the book 1984

 

Orwell died 1950. So the first time you are allowed to actually copy the book freely will be 2020 since it's 70 years after the death of the author (at least here in Germany. I've read something about 100 years somehwere...).

 

On a side note, the book "Mein Kampf" is actually a matter of debate in Germany right now, since its author died on 30th April 1945 in Berlin... Despite not being worth reading they're making a wuss about it now here, because they can't use copyright anymore to censor it (1945 + 70 years = 2015). :P






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users