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The R-Lion (Now F2PeditedLion) F2P experiment *Finished*


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RichardNixon #481 Posted 31 December 2014 - 05:59 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 31 December 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

 

Nah you don't get it yourself either. The T-43 for example is a really really bad tank which a good player can do very little in because it has no "maximum potential". However a tomato can do okayish relative to other tanks because it has some mediocre armor and will let them fire a round or 2 more on average.

The lorraine has amazing potential through speed and an autoloader but a tomato can not take advantage of this and will simply die due to the lack of armor.

It's what I can do in the tank that matters here, not what a bad player can do.

 

The Lorraine actually has poor WN8 scaling for a tier 9 med, while the PTA has good scaling. One possible explanation is that autoloaders have a yolo advantage for tomatoes: Even if they run into a horrible position, they'll usually get most out of a clip out. Terrible players do more damage in the Batchat than in any other tier 10 medium, for example.

 

Otherwise, the general rule is that faster tanks have better WN8 scaling. The Lorraine is one of the few exceptions.

 

On a similar point, tier 10 tanks tend to have high WN8 scaling due to their high MM influence, which is partly why they're popular for WN8 padding. The 113 and 121 have relatively low scaling for tier 10, but good scaling compared to most mid tier tanks.



Salsify #482 Posted 31 December 2014 - 06:22 PM

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View PostSeekless, on 31 December 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

Interesting.....

 

OK dug through my E25 data.

 

No use of premium ammo at all --> WN8 2200 (100 matches)

Use of premium ammo (limited but when needed) --> WN8 2800 (100 matches)

 

Difference in winchance average: 3% higher for the premium case

Tier spread: Equal for both situations

 

Checked WN8 for premium days vs. non premium days: No noticeable difference.

Checked WR for premium days vs. non premium days: Huge difference in advantage of the non premium days (all won so idiot season was open when I got them and apparently I'm easily influenced by others).

 

I do not use free xp or convert it so cannot comment on that one.

 

I bought 180 days of premium, see if my WR and WN8 are influenced in the next 180 or so days, I highly doubt it but interesting to test it over a large tank setlist and longer period.

 

Assuming you did it in that order, (ie first 100 games without and second 100 with prem) I'm wondering how much WN8+WR was influenced by familiarity with the tank rather than prem ammo? (and presumably crew skills would also be higher)

 

Would be interesting to see the effect of the next 100 without prem compared to the first 100 to determine how much of a factor familiarity and skills may have been.



shurasol #483 Posted 31 December 2014 - 06:54 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 31 December 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

 

And this is exactly the point. Now if you could jump in the same tank with full premium, an elited tank and whatever and replicate my results then it would prove me wrong. It would show that these benefits can make you a good player.

If you can NOT replicate my results then it proves me right.

 

What tank I've played is irrelevant.

 

spent best part of the day reading this topic:) quite enjoyable experiment, i must admit, i only dont understand what this  war against windmills is for...

 

anyway,  i dont agree with this point.

 

if HE could jump in the same tank fully pimped using premium consumables etc and replicate/or not your results - it would prove absolutely nothing.

 

there is no second identical AngelOfAwe - with your skills and knowledge, apart from RetardedLion may be. so i guess clear experiment in this case would be if you(or whoever wants to check this)  play a 100 games in one tank as you do now - fully free2play and then 100 games on the same tank with prem consumables and with all perks given to a "paying customer". I do really believe that results WILL differ - leaning towards "paying customer".

 

 

 



AngelofAwe #484 Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:00 PM

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View Postshurasol, on 31 December 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

 

spent best part of the day reading this topic:) quite enjoyable experiment, i must admit, i only dont understand what this  war against windmills is for...

 

anyway,  i dont agree with this point.

 

if HE could jump in the same tank fully pimped using premium consumables etc and replicate/or not your results - it would prove absolutely nothing.

 

there is no second identical AngelOfAwe - with your skills and knowledge, apart from RetardedLion may be. so i guess clear experiment in this case would be if you(or whoever wants to check this)  play a 100 games in one tank as you do now - fully free2play and then 100 games on the same tank with prem consumables and with all perks given to a "paying customer". I do really believe that results WILL differ - leaning towards "paying customer".

 

 

 

 

Point being? That was never what this is supposed to prove/disprove.

shurasol #485 Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:04 PM

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View PostMr_WOoOP, on 31 December 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

There is nothing to prove idiots are idiots... Like many say "I just play for fun"  22k battles and 44%, sure its fun.

 

that is exactly what i wanted to say. Experiment is an interesting idea - as any experiments are doone, to be honest, mainly out of curiosity, along the lines "what if we try this....." especially if it gets paid for (scientists will agree with me, nowadays you get less and less chances to do pure science "out of curiosity", greedy capitalists want results here and now )....

 

but in this particular case - "normal" and adequately thinking people know this anyway, and braindead potatoes will not get any results as the proof anyway.  



shurasol #486 Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:06 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 31 December 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

 

Point being? That was never what this is supposed to prove/disprove.

 

it wasnt a comment about the whole experiment it was a comment about one particular statement that i quoted

RichardNixon #487 Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:23 PM

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Premium consumables have too small an effect for 100 games to reliably measure. From examining what people do at different XP levels in low tier tanks, I'd say that +10% crew skill (food bonus) is worth about 3-6% damage output.

 

That would put the gold crew advantage (75% vs 100%) at 8-15% initially, but a lot less once you're converting crews and playing tanks for longer.

 

APCR spam can do better, but it's very tank-dependent.

 



NoobWarrior #488 Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:48 PM

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Regardless of the experience people need to take all the stats in account to "judge" a player skill and the reason is you find in game players with the same "basic" statistics (for example 2200wn8 and 55% WR) and they perform VERY differently. One truly a very good player the other average/good at most.

 

Having a closer look at all the numbers (post battle): average tier/most played tanks; def/cap values; tank types played; kill/damage ratio, etc, etc you start to see a pattern.

 

 



AngelofAwe #489 Posted 31 December 2014 - 08:43 PM

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*300 battles played update*

 

I'll make this one quick and short.

T-34-85 grind was finished with excellent results and 3 marks of excellence. The T-43 was bought and the crew moved over together with the equipment though I didn't sell the T-34-85.

After 22 games played in the T-43 the tank is elited and the crew is back to 100%, not very difficult to elite a tank that has no improvements over the previous one... only needed turret and tracks. I'll try to make use of my 3 days of premium (from USSR part of WZ-111 mission) to reach the T-44 asap.

 

The T-43 is as expected a pile of garbage and is starting to drop my stats again, though WN8 wise much less than expected... I guess nobody does well in this thing.

My WR is dropping significantly and will keep doing so, not much you can do to carry tier 8/9 games with 144 pen.

 

Stats in the 3 recent mediums:



Service record and tanks played:


 

Spoiler

 



ClassicFrog #490 Posted 31 December 2014 - 08:52 PM

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View PostRichardNixon, on 31 December 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

 

The Lorraine actually has poor WN8 scaling for a tier 9 med, while the PTA has good scaling. One possible explanation is that autoloaders have a yolo advantage for tomatoes: Even if they run into a horrible position, they'll usually get most out of a clip out. Terrible players do more damage in the Batchat than in any other tier 10 medium, for example.

 

Otherwise, the general rule is that faster tanks have better WN8 scaling. The Lorraine is one of the few exceptions.

 

On a similar point, tier 10 tanks tend to have high WN8 scaling due to their high MM influence, which is partly why they're popular for WN8 padding. The 113 and 121 have relatively low scaling for tier 10, but good scaling compared to most mid tier tanks.

 

Could you explain good, bad, high and low WN8 scaling? O.o



RichardNixon #491 Posted 01 January 2015 - 01:21 AM

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View PostClassicFrog, on 31 December 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

 

Could you explain good, bad, high and low WN8 scaling? O.o

 

I thought AoA explained it :)

 

WN8's expected values are only correct for a player with 1565 WN8 (actually they're nowhere near correct there either, but that's another story). The further away a player is from that skill level, the more wrong the expected values will be for them. Performance increases more rapidly with skill for some tanks than others, and WN8 doesn't account for that.

 

People sometimes use the floor/ceiling concept, but it's redundant. Tanks are either good for high-skill players and bad for low-skill players (high skill scaling), or vice versa (low skill scaling). In context, good/high and bad/low are synonyms, although a player below 1565 WN8 would get less WN8 in a tank with "good" skill scaling.

 



ClassicFrog #492 Posted 01 January 2015 - 06:50 AM

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View PostRichardNixon, on 01 January 2015 - 12:21 AM, said:

 

I thought AoA explained it :)

 

WN8's expected values are only correct for a player with 1565 WN8 (actually they're nowhere near correct there either, but that's another story). The further away a player is from that skill level, the more wrong the expected values will be for them. Performance increases more rapidly with skill for some tanks than others, and WN8 doesn't account for that.

 

People sometimes use the floor/ceiling concept, but it's redundant. Tanks are either good for high-skill players and bad for low-skill players (high skill scaling), or vice versa (low skill scaling). In context, good/high and bad/low are synonyms, although a player below 1565 WN8 would get less WN8 in a tank with "good" skill scaling.

 

 

I'm sorry. I haven't ready all posts I must confess. I guess I've missed the part where AoA talked about it. But if I understand it right high scaling means the tank is more unicum friendly and low scaling means the tank is more tomato friendly? I'll read your other post again with that having in mind. Thank you :)

BabyR4ge #493 Posted 01 January 2015 - 07:47 AM

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I havent played a single day without premium account, ok i only spam gold in the e100, but i do so love the comments, but a look at my account should say it all, also i play on fiber connection with a steady 20ms

Ofc skill has something to say, but i must say that i have too much faith in humanity to believe that so many are just bad, there must be some other factors playing in as well ;)



AngelofAwe #494 Posted 01 January 2015 - 03:01 PM

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Finally aced the T-43 after 37 games with 1422 base exp. I know it took quite long but this tank really isn't much of a carry with just standard ammo... doing my best though.

1st mark of excellence achieved in the same battle.

 

The IS in the end got outplayed so bad it hurts to watch.

http://wotreplays.com/site/1482066#fjords-angelofawe-t-43


Edited by AngelofAwe, 01 January 2015 - 03:01 PM.


SastusBulbas #495 Posted 01 January 2015 - 03:15 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 31 December 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

 I'll try to make use of my 3 days of premium (from USSR part of WZ-111 mission) to reach the T-44 asap.

 

AoA have you used your RetardedLion account for WoWP?

 

Currently you can log in there, you will get a days premium, do the three basic training missions and get 150 gold, do three regular battles and receive a days premium reward, obtain a regular tier 4 aircraft, do the mission for that and recieve another 50 gold. Not sure if XP and credits transfer to WoT but I know the gold and premium do.

 

Not sure if it is something that interests you, but it seems a legit way to boost a F2P experiment?



_Dunc_ #496 Posted 01 January 2015 - 03:15 PM

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Having just bought a Matilda BP on the 40 game alt account, I'm wondering whether to do the opposite of you and simply P2W with pure premium ammo, consumables, and convert XP to the 4202. :trollface:


Edited by duncham1, 01 January 2015 - 03:16 PM.


AngelofAwe #497 Posted 01 January 2015 - 03:30 PM

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View PostSastusBulbas, on 01 January 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

 

AoA have you used your RetardedLion account for WoWP?

 

Currently you can log in there, you will get a days premium, do the three basic training missions and get 150 gold, do three regular battles and receive a days premium reward, obtain a regular tier 4 aircraft, do the mission for that and recieve another 50 gold. Not sure if XP and credits transfer to WoT but I know the gold and premium do.

 

Not sure if it is something that interests you, but it seems a legit way to boost a F2P experiment?

 

Nah and I'm not trying to actively boost the account anyway, these premium days are only on my account because I "couldn't" avoid them.

chunkylover54 #498 Posted 01 January 2015 - 03:40 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 27 December 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

Good afternoon/evening fellow forumites, you like me have probably seen the claims like "if only I had premium account, if only I shot premium rounds, if only I had good crews, if only I didn't play stock tanks, if only I skipped tanks, if only I played OP tanks, if only I used mods, if only I platooned ... I'd be unicum too" or perhaps you've even posted something like it.

Now most of us will only laugh and shake our head while clicking the little red neg rep button for this kind of stupidity...

 

However, inspired by the F2P experiment made by another forumite not long ago as well as my extreme boredom and suitable circumstances I decided to do something similar, yet different.

 

I've played this game for quite a while now and I'm pretty much a "low-end" unicum on my first and main account AngelofAwe. I'm far from the greatest player in the server but my recent performance is not bad at all, usually hovering around 3,6-3,8k.

 

Now, what I decided to do in my experiment was make a fresh account (RetardedLion) and play it in as difficult a way as possible.

 

- Completely free to play. No premium time or gold bought (Got 1 day premium from the Christmas event thing)

- Not a single shell of premium ammo or any premium consumables used

- All tanks played stock

- No mods

- 50-75% crews (retrained to 75% for credits at tier 4+)

- 100% solo

- No equipment until tier 5+ (had no credits)

 

I decided to go down the Russian medium line towards the Obj 140 which will be my goal.

The reasons for this are:

1) I like mediums the most

2) It increases the difficulty. TDs or heavies would have been easier in this F2P mode since they have better pen and can rely on range/armor.

 

While this may be enough to answer to most arguments these muppets make I decided to further increase the difficulty by adding bad hardware to the equation.

That is why I'm playing now during the Christmas/ New year holidays.

In my apartment I have a good gaming PC and great internet, however right now I'm visiting my family and parents for 2-3 weeks which means I'm playing on my 4 year old laptop with a 15,6" screen and absolutely horrific wireless internet that I also share with my siblings and parents.

 

 

My laptop has overheating issues which drives my fps into the ground, my ping varies between 100 and 250 and the packet loss is extreme. It's honestly absolutely awful to play on, even my main account loses 1k WN8 compared to my recents.

 

 

T-34 loadout:

Spoiler

 

First mark of excellence after 34 battles.

Spoiler

 

Some of the highlights in the T-34 come from being underestimated as a "fail reroll" by stat padding platoons.

Met a triple tier 6 EFE platoon last night of which I killed 2 and the third died yoloing me.

Similarly I met a triple tier 6 EXEED platoon of which their KV-2 tried to yolo me and got killed 1v1 dealing no damage after also having failed to ram me. (30k games, 60%+ overall WR player) Though their last remaining player eventually won the game...

 

Tank reviews on the road from F2P view:

 

Tier II - T-26

Pretty decent for it's tier with good pen. Can deal with anything it encounters.

 

Tier III  T-46

Amazing light tank for the tier. Extremely high pen and good mobility makes it one of the stronger tanks in the tier.

 

Tier IV - T-50

Same gun as the T-46 but now meets enemy heavy tanks almost every game. It can beat any other light 1v1 and even bounces their shells quite a bit, however without premium ammo this tank is just bad for carrying. Even medium tanks need to be flanked in order to pen them while heavies will bounce your shells even with their rear reliably.

This tank hurt my rating A LOT, both WN8 and WR. I think it would be a very strong tank with premium ammo loaded though.

 

TIer V - T-34

Awful stock, amazing with the 57mm zis. 112mm pen is enough to deal with heavies of your tier frontally if you know how to aim and mediums are good targets at any range. Almost any tank you meet can be dealt with and the DPM is great.

Best tank so far and carries games easily despite no premium ammo and a bad crew.

 

So... I've tried my best to stack everything against me as much as possible, what are the results?

Wotlabs is lagging behind a lot so I'll give you up to date numbers instead.

Here are my overalls 5 minutes ago after 111 battles played:

 

 

Just below unicum and rapidly increasing.

 

Here's the record of my T-34 session last night:

 

2814 WN8, just below super unicum.

 

And here's my service record, 64% WR.

 

 

So what does this show? Basically only what we've already known, that if you have bad stats it's because you're a bad player.

There is no factor inside or outside this game that will cause you to be a bad player, it's all you.

 

That's it for the midpoint report, I will return again later once I've played more and get to higher tiers.

Personally I only expect my stats to increase from this point on as I get my medium tanks, better crews, equipment and get back to my own PC/internet.

I'm expecting this account will land around 2800 WN8 and 62% WR once I reach tier X. Still completely free to play and following all the terms I've set up.

 

Happy new year forumites!

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

200 games played update post can be found HERE

300 games played update HERE

 

I started something similar myself, inspired by the same post I imagine. I however went for the uber challenge and didn't have the patience for it, I tried running only arty... Despite the communities (a generalisation) opinion on them, starting with a 50% crew is rougher than a badgers back. So before I lost all hope and less than 100 games in I decided to change tack abit. 

 

When I started playing we had only 3 Nations, the French were but a glimmer and we were promised British tanks "soon". They came 2 years later.... So while I have all the Brit lines on my primary account (boomaster) I decided with the addition of the new TD's that I start out as I originally intended when I entered beta, to play British tanks. So I'm grinding ALL the lines, for ALL the tanks. I also relented on the F2P thing, temporarily and brought a months worth of prem time. I also picked up all the Brit premiums (except the bloody TOG II, hate the thing) at half off, so far WG has had about £35 out of me, which is what I spend on a console game. What I won't be doing is spending anymore, I'll be letting my premium time expire and sticking with the F2P concept as far as possible.

 

Thus far, this is how I'm stacking up progress wise: chunkylover54  I would have liked to do better but low tier arty is an absolute struggle, especially if it's not russian and even more so if it's British.

 

I must say though, I'm enjoying the game much more but I can't put my finger on why.



CandyVanMan #499 Posted 01 January 2015 - 11:38 PM

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Lack of lobotomy makes this challenge worthless.

You are just playing EZ mode while awake and with functional lims and a sound mind. 

 

Will plosrap when I get new upboats.

 


Edited by CandyVanMan, 01 January 2015 - 11:41 PM.


yaayifications #500 Posted 02 January 2015 - 03:12 PM

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love the experiment. I was hoping someone would try something like this for a while. I'm keen to see how you handle stock grinds at t8+ and how you deal with deciding which tanks/crews to keep and replace to micromanage cash/progression. I'd wager a guess that grinding through the T-43 and -44 stock is going to really hurt your WN8 and progression speed until they're fully elited, especially the latter given BT12 no longer exists.

 

Though on reflection, any hit taken while grinding those two is probably going to be made up by playing through the elite -> next tank period in the t-44 and 54. Wonder if you can stomach grinding 6.1m without premium though.






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