Jump to content


Four tier difference: What is the point?


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

BigAlUK_1 #1 Posted 10 May 2015 - 12:45 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015

Why oh why do WoT insist of placing a tank with a four-tier difference into a random battle.
 

It is not fun for the V fighting against VIII tanks with nothing to penetrate or damage anything with.
 

If they really wanted to provide "cannon fodder" then why not just add some bots?
 


 

4-tier differences are annoying, expensive (need gold rounds to make ANY kind of impression, plus A LOT of LUCK), and they really don't add to any kind of enjoyment for the poor sap who keeps getting these assignments.


 

Come-on WoT, be reasonable.



 


Edited by BigAlUK_1, 10 May 2015 - 12:46 AM.


BigAlUK_1 #2 Posted 10 May 2015 - 12:49 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015

Incidentally - whilst I was writing the above post, I left my tier V sitting there at base.  I actually made zero contribution to the eventual victory, but at least I had more fun writing the post than I would have running away from things on the battlefield.   Perhaps that's the way to play a four-tier difference:  go and make a coffee, write a letter, wash the dishes, have a shower, whatever.

 


Edited by BigAlUK_1, 10 May 2015 - 12:52 AM.


BigAlUK_1 #3 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:00 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015

And - as if to punish me for my post (or am I getting paranoid) ... I get four 4-tier difference games in a row!  With me being the one poor sap at the lowest tier.
 

 

 

 

 


 

..and does it make me feel any better to know that there is a corresponding poor sap on the other team?  
 

..no, not really..


 


 

 


Edited by BigAlUK_1, 10 May 2015 - 01:02 AM.


Desyatnik_Pansy #4 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:01 AM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 16197 battles
  • 25,791
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

There is no +4 MM (IIRC, there USED to be, namely for Light tanks; but that has seen been sorted). Also, just for the record, Tier V meeting Tier VIII Is only +3, not +4. Otherwise, the only reason you should be seeing +3 Is if you're playing a Light tank, and at Tier V, those would be the ELC AMX, Leopard and the Chaffee. Otherwise, the only reason you would see that sort of matchmaking is if you're troll-platooning.

 

As a Light tank, one of the main jobs is to scout; AKA, spot enemy tanks for you team using your excellent mobility and viewrange, as well as camouflage values. This doesn't mean suicide-scouting, which would just be to rush into the enemy spawn immediately at the start of the game and die. I'm not much of a Scout player myself, though I can link a few threads to the matter and have been successful with them thus far, but I can simplify that there are two main ways to play Lights; Active Scouting or Passive Scouting.

Passive is more along the lines of jumping into a bush and using a camo-net and binocular telescope to improve your camo and viewrange while your tank remains concealed. Enemy tanks that advance or fire within your viewrange will likely become spotted and have little chance of spotting you, so long as you don't shoot; just pray that your team is semi-decent and neutralise the enemy before they advance enough to spot you and if they're completely ignoring the enemy in such case, it is wise to bug out before they get within range to spot you; Lights' camo is the same while stationary (though it is improved if a camo-net is used) as is while moving.

Active is quite simple. Take Prokhorovka/Fiery Salient for example, Active Scouting would be to frequently poke around the centre ridge and spot the enemies on the other side within your viewrange. It can be a lot more dangerous, especially when enemy arty is in play (as you will most likely be spotted everytime you poke the ridge too), but is potentially a lot less nerve-racking if I do say so myself. However, it can also be a lot less dangerous, as while Passive, a smart player can predict where you are and kill you without ever actually spotting you, while Active, you're almost never remaining still and only appear for a very brief moment, giving the enemy very little time to fire at you.

 

Lights are perhaps the trickiest class to play and especially with your battles, I would heavily incline you to ditch whatever Tier V Light it is you're playing (I haven't bothered to check, sorry) and instead focus on either a Medium/Heavy line up to Tier V Instead. Lights are exceptionally hard for newer players, especially when running with 50-75% Crews with no skills and no equipment and such; and may even feel completely incapable of doing anything (the only Light I'd say that's in such a position is the M5 Stuart, that thing's a PoS!), and thus I would save playing them for a long time when you might have the hang of things better.

 

Oh and, if I'm totally wrong and you're not playing a Tier V Light but are just platooning with a Tier VI or higher vehicle, then it's quite simple; stop troll-platooning:honoring:



BigAlUK_1 #5 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:04 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015
Ok - this is getting ridiculous - I am now in the same situation for the FIFTH time in a row.
 

Desyatnik_Pansy #6 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:09 AM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 16197 battles
  • 25,791
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 01:04 AM, said:

Ok - this is getting ridiculous - I am now in the same situation for the FIFTH time in a row.

 

Look up. :sceptic:



BigAlUK_1 #7 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:17 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015

Thanks for the constructive advice, Des.
 

I have about 16 LTs in all, ranging from tier II to tier VI, and generally do ok with most of them.   However, as I built that lot up, I'm pretty sure the odds used to be better that there would be a more even tiered match more frequently than of late.  It seems to me that WoT have tweaked something recently.


I take your point about +3,  I really should have said 4-tier span (which is the same thing as your own tier +3).

You are right about tactics v. maps:  I used to do the active scouting a lot and quite enjoyed that for a while because of the speed involved.  However, my whinge is that getting +3 differences almost constantly gets a bit boring and tedious.  However, I suppose it IS one way to get practice!  :-)

These long repeats of +3 also seem to occur more often in the wee hours of the morning, when there are less players available, ...at least that is the impression I am getting.

I'd rather wait a little longer for a better tier-match than to be merely "thrown in to make up numbers", which is what appears to be happening.


 

However, in the meantime, I shall try your tip about "passive scouting", not that any kind of scouting without firing the gun earns much in the way of points.  Like I said, the +3 difference means you have to "spend more",  which makes me just slightly suspicious of what the true purpose of these long mismatch repeats is.
 


Edited by BigAlUK_1, 10 May 2015 - 01:18 AM.


BigAlUK_1 #8 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:20 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015

Ha, ha.
 

I left the LT at base again whilst typing the above... and yet again achieved a victory.   How's that for passive scouting?


 



Magical_Unicorn_Dildo #9 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:29 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 16469 battles
  • 512
  • Member since:
    08-26-2013
The point of tier 5 and six scouts getting this matchmaking is simply spotting. Causing damage is not your priority, you need a camo net and binoculars to be effective. You often don't have the armor  penetration to engage a tier 8 so you must plan your attack.

Desyatnik_Pansy #10 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:31 AM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 16197 battles
  • 25,791
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

Thanks for the constructive advice, Des.
 

I have about 16 LTs in all, ranging from tier II to tier VI, and generally do ok with most of them.   However, as I built that lot up, I'm pretty sure the odds used to be better that there would be a more even tiered match more frequently than of late.  It seems to me that WoT have tweaked something recently.

 

Pretty much most Lights at Tier IV+ get Scout MM (a few of them since don't; such being the T-80, A-20, Valentine, Covenanter and Crusader; I don't know any others). You pretty much have to expect to meet +3 Sadly, but it's a helluva lot better than it used to be. I admittedly, when I was but a nab, suicide-scouted out both my M5A1 Stuart and Pz. 38 nA Because I was sick of meeting Tier VIIIs (and even the M5A1's amazing 47mm cannot do F-all to an IS-3 For example).

 

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

You are right about tactics v. maps:  I used to do the active scouting a lot and quite enjoyed that for a while because of the speed involved.  However, my whinge is that getting +3 differences almost constantly gets a bit boring and tedious.  However, I suppose it IS one way to get practice!  :-)

 

Admittedly, I'm almost envious of that! :teethhappy:

 

I've been playing the T37 Most of today trying to accomplish LT-15 (4000 Spotting damage), and whenever I did meet Tier VIIIs/IXs, it was always maps like Himmelsdorf, Ruinberg, so forth. When I get a decent map for being a Scout? It was a majority Tier VI Game; 4000 Spotting in that is just, well it ain't impossible, but it's a lot harder than I'd like it to be.

 

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

These long repeats of +3 also seem to occur more often in the wee hours of the morning, when there are less players available, ...at least that is the impression I am getting.

 

A likely case. The early hours of the morning, there's certainly a lot LESS players than usual, so MM Across the board becomes a lot harsher usually. It's one reason I often don't like playing in the earlier hours, though it's more so because the teams feel even worse in the early hours for some reason.

 

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

However, in the meantime, I shall try your tip about "passive scouting", not that any kind of scouting without firing the gun earns much in the way of points.  Like I said, the +3 difference means you have to "spend more",  which makes me just slightly suspicious of what the true purpose of these long mismatch repeats is.

 

Passive Scouting is trickier in the way that you really need to know what bushes are best to spot from, all the spotting lines you have from there and vice versa (I say vice versa as in; while part of the bush might conceal your tank, somewhat to the side of you could be open and the extra camo from the bush might be nullified if someone pokes up over there). I tend to shy away from Passive Scouting, it's nerve-racking as hell I find and it's just never really worked for me. Often I find myself in games with 3-4 Other Lights on my team, and all of us trying to fight for one bush is just a waste of time. Plus, you have to plan the fastest route at the start of every game pretty much to get there at the earliest possible time. No thanks!

 

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

Ha, ha.
 

I left the LT at base again whilst typing the above... and yet again achieved a victory.   How's that for passive scouting?

 

Not necessarily much, sorry. I would advise looking into these two threads; 

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/469673-lt-15-how-to-do-it-on-8-maps/

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/107182-the-lighthouse-how-to-change-your-default-ammo/

 

Otherwise, while I would provide a few replays of my own in Scouts, none of them are by using Passive Spotting pretty much and I'm hardly a very good player in Lights. Nonetheless, you're welcome to watch them either way;

http://wotreplays.com/uploader/Desyatnik_Pansy/id/295943/version/37/level/6/type/1/tank/768/sort/uploaded_at.desc/

 

One main thing to take into about Lights is that, early-to-mid game, you are pretty much nothing but a spotter. Don't throw your tank to do damage, if you get a shot or two into the flanks of an enemy without taking any damage in return then by all means take it, but never do so in a way that will completely endanger your tank. Lights are exceptionally deadly once the late game phase begins, as most tanks by then will have low health, be split apart and you can use the speed and camo to simply get around the map quickly and spot enemies for your allies or find opportunities of your own to pounce on an enemy.


Edited by Desyatnik_Pansy, 10 May 2015 - 01:33 AM.


BigAlUK_1 #11 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:40 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015

View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 10 May 2015 - 01:31 AM, said:

Lights are exceptionally deadly once the late game phase begins, as most tanks by then will have low health, be split apart and you can use the speed and camo to simply get around the map quickly and spot enemies for your allies or find opportunities of your own to pounce on an enemy.

 

This sounds like very good advice.  I shall try that.

 

 



Desyatnik_Pansy #12 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:47 AM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 16197 battles
  • 25,791
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

This sounds like very good advice.  I shall try that.

 

One last thing to take note is that Lights typically have subpar pen on the guns (take for example, 95mm pen I think on the Chaffee's top gun). That means it's better to take shots only at the exposed sides and rear of enemy tanks, rather than wasting shots into the front of enemies. Even so, heavily armoured tanks may even have too much armour for you to even pen their rears, so you should either try to avoid them entirely, or pack some APCR For them. 

 

Additionally, especially so with the American Lights (Chaffee, T37, M41 Walker Bulldog; think the T49 Also suffers from it), they suffer from weak ammoracks, so be a bit careful who you pick fights with. A powerful enough gun will often just send your turret flying with a single shot. :teethhappy:



BigAlUK_1 #13 Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:59 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015

 

View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 10 May 2015 - 01:31 AM, said:

Lights are exceptionally deadly once the late game phase begins, as most tanks by then will have low health, be split apart and you can use the speed and camo to simply get around the map quickly and spot enemies for your allies or find opportunities of your own to pounce on an enemy.

 

In fact, I just did that very thing just now (albeit on a single-tiered game) with a Locust.  Right towards the end of the game, I just went around at 60-70mph picking off the remaining enemy and got two kills "at speed".  VERY satisfying!


 

So, thanks for the tip.  :)


By the way,  what exactly is "Troll-Scouting"?    :trollface:


Edited by BigAlUK_1, 10 May 2015 - 02:05 AM.


Desyatnik_Pansy #14 Posted 10 May 2015 - 02:04 AM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 16197 battles
  • 25,791
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

In fact, I just did that very thing just now (albeit on a single-tiered game) with a Locust.  Right towards the end of the game, I just went around at 60-70mph picking off the remaining enemy and got two kills "at speed".  VERY satisfying!


 

So, thanks for the tip.  :)

 

Very welcome. :honoring:

 

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

By the way,  what exactly is "Troll-Scouting"?    :trollface:

 

No idea. :hiding:

 

If it's a serious question, it'd probably be easier for me to answer under the circumstances of the event.


Edited by Desyatnik_Pansy, 10 May 2015 - 02:05 AM.


BigAlUK_1 #15 Posted 10 May 2015 - 02:08 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015
Sorry - it was troll-platooning that you mentioned. not troll-scouting.  What is that?

Desyatnik_Pansy #16 Posted 10 May 2015 - 02:16 AM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 16197 battles
  • 25,791
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

Sorry - it was troll-platooning that you mentioned. not troll-scouting.  What is that?

 

Troll-platooning is just the rough term for platooning vehicles with each other with conflicting MM. Such an example would be say platooning a Tier VII Heavy (MM Spread of -2/+2, so minimum spread of Tier V and maximum of Tier IX) with say.. a Tier II Vehicle (+1/-1 MM; should NEVER see higher than Tier III). Basically, a lot of newbies do it because they don't understand, some bad players in general do it even after 10k+ battles because they don't understand and then there's the people who do it solely for the purpose of ruining their team's game. Hence, "troll-platooning".

BigAlUK_1 #17 Posted 10 May 2015 - 02:42 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015
Thanks - that's clear.   I ended up doing that once, because the people I was platooning with, once they had helped me get my platoon-based mission, wanted to use higher tier weapons than I had in order to get their missions.  I eventually disbanded the platoon because I couldn't really contribute much (Tier V in a game with Tier IX at one point!).  But I bowed out with appropriate apologies and many thanks for their help on my own mission, wishing all the best for their future, and all that...   it was kind of embarrassing really.

BigAlUK_1 #18 Posted 10 May 2015 - 02:42 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17343 battles
  • 31
  • Member since:
    03-10-2015

(Deleted double-post caused by forum throwing a wobbly)


Edited by BigAlUK_1, 10 May 2015 - 02:52 AM.


Desyatnik_Pansy #19 Posted 10 May 2015 - 02:54 AM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 16197 battles
  • 25,791
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostBigAlUK_1, on 10 May 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

Thanks - that's clear.   I ended up doing that once, because the people I was platooning with, once they had helped me get my platoon-based mission, wanted to use higher tier weapons than I had in order to get their missions.  I eventually disbanded the platoon because I couldn't really contribute much (Tier V in a game with Tier IX at one point!).  But I bowed out with appropriate apologies and many thanks for their help on my own mission, wishing all the best for their future, and all that...   it was kind of embarrassing really.

 

The one time I troll-platooned intentionally was for the LT+Arty platoon mission, in which I platooned my Chaffee with a friend's S-51. Troll-platooning is not so bad when they know what they're doing, and I've even seen people troll-platoon say.. a T-15 (Tier III Light) in a Tier X Game and do well with it! Sadly, sometimes the team itself doesn't respect that and may just teamkill the platoon off the bat; even if such doesn't happens, it's still extremely rare to have a troll-platoon that does well. Most of them, hence the name, are just exceptionally bad players that end up ruining the game for the team. 



SpRitE166 #20 Posted 17 May 2015 - 03:51 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 35650 battles
  • 70
  • [TFUK] TFUK
  • Member since:
    04-07-2013

MM for light tanks need to be reworked +2 only or buff their guns in therms of pen.If a beginer plays a LT he will rage quit some reasosns why 

1)you have just +3 MM (why not -3)

2)you  very rarely see top tier games 

3) mosty u cant pen anyting if you dont spam prem ammo

 


Edited by SpRitE166, 17 May 2015 - 03:54 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users