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SP 1 C - After release feedback for future buffs


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jwu #81 Posted 04 August 2015 - 09:51 AM

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View Postarmholeeio, on 01 August 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

Found it more fun to play with the single shot 90mm than the auto, if the auto had a higher rate if fire and with a trade of a increased reload(couple of seconds more than now) then I would stick with that. But the single shot seemed to be more flexible at this point

Keep in mind though that the autoloader needs exactly 3 seconds to fully aim again after a shot (with GLD). It wouldn't necessarily be able to utilize a faster burst rate except in close combat.

 

View Postsnipercow, on 01 August 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

At start I couldn't make this tank work, but doing some missions alternating between spic and t49, I managed to get some nice results, by playing it like a mobile ambusher, get close to an isolated opponent, unload a clip in his rear, come back 17 seconds later. 

It's kinda a fun tank, but the drawbacks like speed and shell velocity are meh.

The 16-17 seconds reload basically is perfect.

 

After dumping the last shot one needs 1 second to leave enemy LOS again at full throttle. Then 10-12 seconds until one became invisible again for sure. Then one sneaks up into firing position again for 1-3 seconds and needs to aim for another 3 seconds or so.

Once one is done with that the next clip will be loaded. Nothing of the 16-17 seconds is wasted, it's all used for things that one needs to do anyway if one shoots from a concealed position (at least for the first shot).



Eila_Juutilainen #82 Posted 04 August 2015 - 12:09 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 01 August 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

 

It is ever so slightly taller than the 13 75's cupola but is more narrow and weighs 50% less than the 13 75.  How it gets worse Camo is a mystery only the non-logical devs can explain.

 

View PostFluffy_The_Destroyer, on 02 August 2015 - 10:36 PM, said:

 

I think camo is a balance factor nowadays, no tank had a "historicaly amazing camo" now did they? haha.

 

Camo is partially a balance factor. It's generally based on size, but if you look around you'll find irregularities. Like the massive difference in camo between Type 61 and the other Japanese meds of similar built. Not to mention that heavy tanks always get reduced camo compared to mediums, AFAIK.

Edited by Eila_Juutilainen, 04 August 2015 - 12:10 PM.


Tazilon #83 Posted 05 August 2015 - 06:03 AM

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View Postjwu, on 04 August 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

Keep in mind though that the autoloader needs exactly 3 seconds to fully aim again after a shot (with GLD). It wouldn't necessarily be able to utilize a faster burst rate except in close combat.

 

The 16-17 seconds reload basically is perfect.

 

After dumping the last shot one needs 1 second to leave enemy LOS again at full throttle. Then 10-12 seconds until one became invisible again for sure. Then one sneaks up into firing position again for 1-3 seconds and needs to aim for another 3 seconds or so.

Once one is done with that the next clip will be loaded. Nothing of the 16-17 seconds is wasted, it's all used for things that one needs to do anyway if one shoots from a concealed position (at least for the first shot).

 

Highly idealized.  Doesn't happen like this often.



jwu #84 Posted 05 August 2015 - 07:06 AM

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View PostTazilon, on 05 August 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

 

Highly idealized.  Doesn't happen like this often.

Then let's be constructive instead of throwing red paint and actually analyze what the idealization actually is in this case, and what happens if these ideal conditions are not met and how this affects the other gun as well.

 

Either you can afford to stay in position while being spotted after your first shot, or you can not.

 

If you can, then you can use it to dump a full clip. This is clearly an advantageous situation for the autoloader.

 

If you can not afford to expose yourself, then whatever further delays there may be for the autoloader also affect the single shot gun, do they not? Usually the cycle until your next shot will be longer than 17 seconds then, not shorter. Hence in such a situation the single shot gun does not really have any advantage either, except for the slightly better gun handling. Both will fire a shot every 20 seconds or so then.

 

The single shot gun is only really superior in case of continuous shot cycles of no less than 7 but no more than 16 seconds. If such a series of shots is broken into either an opportunity to dump a clip or a full 16+ second firing pause during which the autoloader could have reloaded, then it loses ground to the autoloader.

 

 



BigFellas_Dad #85 Posted 06 August 2015 - 01:50 AM

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SP-1C  is AWFUL, im selling mine and driopping the whole line, no freeXP or effort any more its so weak its painfuul ...... WG, GG again.

 

It needs so much more mobility,, it needs so much more aim time and accuracy just sucks.  its a craptank now FIX IT



jwu #86 Posted 06 August 2015 - 06:58 AM

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Ahh cool. People disagree and throw red paint without bothering to explain why.

BigFellas_Dad #87 Posted 06 August 2015 - 09:21 AM

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View Postjwu, on 06 August 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

Ahh cool. People disagree and throw red paint without bothering to explain why.

 

without getting dragged into earlier discussions, I think the gun is the least of the problems with this tank.  The lack of mobility stops me getting to where I need to go to assist my team,  i've grown sick of trying to get to a location only to be one shot by a T49 that's already made it to counter scout me.  This has now got me to play the tank not as a light tank but a coward, who cant support his team until I know the other lights are gone.  Ok, I try and play more passive scout or traditional spotting tank, which this tank can be good at....if the team have survived long enough until the enemy lights are gone.  I don't play lights to do damage primarily like so many players do so maybe its me, maybe lights are not relevant now unless on the open traditional scouting maps, maybe its just time to stop playing lights for me as I no longer find them exciting to play and its this SP 1 C that has made me realise.

Edited by BigFellas_Dad, 06 August 2015 - 09:22 AM.


Gremlin182 #88 Posted 06 August 2015 - 10:09 AM

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You do not ever want to use the autoloader on the SP1C well not in my opinion.

As others have said the reload time is bad but the time between shots is pitiful.

Anyway why would you use the autoloader

 

It has exactly the same penetration as the single shot version weighs 100 KG more has a slower ROF worse accuracy and longer aim time.

Not to mention autoloaders are a real pain when it comes to changing ammo type.

With the standard 90 mm if I feel the 180 pen AP might bounce and change to premium for 250 pen, or maybe HE for killing a low armour target. its an easy change.

The autoloader makes that change take too long and you now have 3 premium rounds loaded and may well change back after one round.

 

http://wiki.wargamin...ank:G113_SP_I_C



jwu #89 Posted 06 August 2015 - 10:15 AM

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View PostBigFellas_Dad, on 06 August 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

 

without getting dragged into earlier discussions, I think the gun is the least of the problems with this tank.  The lack of mobility stops me getting to where I need to go to assist my team,  i've grown sick of trying to get to a location only to be one shot by a T49 that's already made it to counter scout me.  This has now got me to play the tank not as a light tank but a coward, who cant support his team until I know the other lights are gone.  Ok, I try and play more passive scout or traditional spotting tank, which this tank can be good at....if the team have survived long enough until the enemy lights are gone.  I don't play lights to do damage primarily like so many players do so maybe its me, maybe lights are not relevant now unless on the open traditional scouting maps, maybe its just time to stop playing lights for me as I no longer find them exciting to play and its this SP 1 C that has made me realise.

It's indeed the least mobile of the tier 7 lights and some positions are not viable with it that would be possible to obtain with e.g. a Bulldog.

 

it has other distinct strengths though that can be put to good use. Its camo value is among the best of its class (0.16, a Bulldog has 0.14), it has the meanest burst damage of all tier 7 autoloaders (720 damage in 6 seconds, a bulldog only scores 600 damage in that timeframe), it has excellent gun depression and an extremely small profile while being hull down.

 

I think of it as an ambusher, like a mobile TD, not as a light tank.



jwu #90 Posted 06 August 2015 - 10:26 AM

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View PostGremlin182, on 06 August 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

You do not ever want to use the autoloader on the SP1C well not in my opinion.

As others have said the reload time is bad but the time between shots is pitiful.

Anyway why would you use the autoloader

 

It has exactly the same penetration as the single shot version weighs 100 KG more has a slower ROF worse accuracy and longer aim time.

Not to mention autoloaders are a real pain when it comes to changing ammo type.

With the standard 90 mm if I feel the 180 pen AP might bounce and change to premium for 250 pen, or maybe HE for killing a low armour target. its an easy change.

The autoloader makes that change take too long and you now have 3 premium rounds loaded and may well change back after one round.

 

http://wiki.wargamin...ank:G113_SP_I_C

With the autoloader i can exploit the relatively long reload time of the average high tier tank and deal more than one shot while he is reloading.

With the autoloader i can afford to trade damage in the late game to finish off a target.

With the single shot game i often can't use the full RoF either, whenever i need to fall back to cover to become unspotted again before sneaking back up. In that time i can have the clip of the autoloader reloaded as well.

 

The autoloader serves me well so far - 1320 DPG with a rookie crew without sixth sense. That's only slightly less than i achive with my Bulldog with its three skill crew.



Gremlin182 #91 Posted 06 August 2015 - 10:30 AM

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View Postjwu, on 06 August 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

With the autoloader i can exploit the relatively long reload time of the average high tier tank and deal more than one shot while he is reloading.

With the autoloader i can afford to trade damage in the late game to finish off a target.

With the single shot game i often can't use the full RoF either, whenever i need to fall back to cover to become unspotted again before sneaking back up. In that time i can have the clip of the autoloader reloaded as well.

 

The autoloader serves me well so far - 1320 DPG with a rookie crew without sixth sense. That's only slightly less than i achive with my Bulldog with its three skill crew.

 

Fair enough Single shot suits me if it was faster and I could circle opponants I might take it as it is I play more as a sneaky opportunist sniper more hellcat than Bulldog

 

 


Edited by Gremlin182, 06 August 2015 - 10:30 AM.


BigFella_uk_ #92 Posted 07 August 2015 - 01:37 AM

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its still crap..

but finally this game get me 6th

 

http://wotreplays.co..._hpanzer_sp_i_c



Fluffy_The_Destroyer #93 Posted 07 August 2015 - 06:18 AM

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View Postjwu, on 06 August 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

It's indeed the least mobile of the tier 7 lights

 

http://tank-compare....224I209I362I166

No its not, so quit the BS please. you get a real gun on that and 10 more viewrange in comparison too. i wish people would stop with the "its terrible" because clearly its not.


Edited by Fluffy_The_Destroyer, 07 August 2015 - 06:20 AM.


jwu #94 Posted 07 August 2015 - 06:47 AM

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View PostFluffy_The_Destroyer, on 07 August 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

 

http://tank-compare....224I209I362I166

No its not, so quit the BS please. 

Perhaps you should read your own sources before you accuse others of bullshitting. They support my point of view.

 

The AMX 13 75 has a faster top speed (61 vs 58), faster reverse speed (23 vs 22)

 

The SP1C has a slightly better HP/weight ratio (20.53 to 19.74), but that slight advantage is negated by its worse ground resistance values. The effective HP/weight ratio including ground resistance of the two vehicles are as follows:

 

  SP1C AMX 13 75
Hard ground 25.66 28.2
Medium ground 22.81 24.68
Soft ground 11.4 14.1

 

So including the ground resistance the AMX has better HP/ton ratios on all three terrain types. It's even almost as good on medium terrain as the SP1C on hard terrain. It also beats the SP1C in terms of top speed, both forward and reverse. The only agility aspect in which the SP1C beats the AMX is the traverse speed. In all others the AMX is superior according to your own source.

 

Block Quote

 you get a real gun on that and 10 more viewrange in comparison too. i wish people would stop with the "its terrible" because clearly its not.

 If you would read my posts completely you would notice that i'm not saying that "it's terrible" at all, and that i find its gun to be quite nice indeed. Just look at my post #81, on top of this page of this thread.

 

The gun, except for the shell travel time, is quite sweet indeed. One little noticed advantage over the other tier 7 lights is the awesome 250mm pen HEAT round. A SP1C does pose a threat to the turret front armor of even a E100, unlike any of the others with 210mm HEAT pen at most.

 


Edited by jwu, 07 August 2015 - 08:24 AM.


Fluffy_The_Destroyer #95 Posted 07 August 2015 - 09:35 AM

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View Postjwu, on 07 August 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

Perhaps you should read your own sources before you accuse others of bullshitting. They support my point of view.

 

The AMX 13 75 has a faster top speed (61 vs 58), faster reverse speed (23 vs 22)

 

The SP1C has a slightly better HP/weight ratio (20.53 to 19.74), but that slight advantage is negated by its worse ground resistance values. The effective HP/weight ratio including ground resistance of the two vehicles are as follows:

 

  SP1C AMX 13 75
Hard ground 25.66 28.2
Medium ground 22.81 24.68
Soft ground 11.4 14.1

 

So including the ground resistance the AMX has better HP/ton ratios on all three terrain types. It's even almost as good on medium terrain as the SP1C on hard terrain. It also beats the SP1C in terms of top speed, both forward and reverse. The only agility aspect in which the SP1C beats the AMX is the traverse speed. In all others the AMX is superior according to your own source.

 

 If you would read my posts completely you would notice that i'm not saying that "it's terrible" at all, and that i find its gun to be quite nice indeed. Just look at my post #81, on top of this page of this thread.

 

The gun, except for the shell travel time, is quite sweet indeed. One little noticed advantage over the other tier 7 lights is the awesome 250mm pen HEAT round. A SP1C does pose a threat to the turret front armor of even a E100, unlike any of the others with 210mm HEAT pen at most.

 

 

I never stated you alone are saying "its terrible" but the majority here act like its completely worse than 13 75, so im sat there wondering "have these people played 13 75?"

 

You say its worse HPPT? but im not seeing exact numbers. you are showing me that while 13 75 does have slightly better ground resistances in all 3.. does that actually mount up to a more sizable ammount of HPPT stated? by how much exactly? SPIC also gets a noticable 4 more traverse speed too so that helps with mobility.

 

The gun, yes. its amazing for the tier and honestly even if the mobility/speed was as bad as people say? i think the gun makes up for anything its actually lacking. just like how 13 75 lacks allot more than a SPIC in everything, like mobility (supposedly debatable but IMO its acceleration sucks), penetration (144pen vs T10?), cant use Vstab (seriously hurts gun handling), bad gun handling as standard. at least SPIC got the main thing every tank in game needs to be usefull, penetration.



jwu #96 Posted 07 August 2015 - 10:01 AM

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View PostFluffy_The_Destroyer, on 07 August 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

 

I never stated you alone are saying "its terrible" but the majority here act like its completely worse than 13 75, so im sat there wondering "have these people played 13 75?"

 

You said that it would be "BS" to a quote of me pointing out that it is the least mobile of the tier 7 lights. Nowhere did i say that it's "completely worse" than the 13 75, quite the opposite. I just pointed out its major weakness compared to the others, the agility. It has other strengths which i adressed in other posts.

 

Block Quote

 

You say its worse HPPT? but im not seeing exact numbers. you are showing me that while 13 75 does have slightly better ground resistances in all 3.. does that actually mount up to a more sizable ammount of HPPT stated? by how much exactly?

 

The ground resistance acts as a divisor on the HP/ton ratio. So a HP/ton ratio of 20 and a ground resistance factor of 0.8 results in an effective HP/ton of 20/0.8=25HP/ton

The AMX 13 75 does have significantly better effective HP/ton than the SP1C, and better top speed going forward and reverse. The SP1C turns faster. In all other aspects the AMX is clearly superior, the effective HP/ton being the most important aspect.

 

 

The gun really kicks [edited]. It can do things that the other tier 7 lights cannot do, namely dumping a full clip of 720 damage within 6 seconds with 250mm pen.

 

This enables it to take part in peekaboo fights, exploiting the enemy reload time to deliver a full clip against their frontal armor. The other tier 7 autoloader lights cannot do this. Their damage potential during the enemy reload is clearly lower (600 in 6s for a Bulldog or T71), and they lack the penetration to deal with higher tier tank frontal armor in many cases (even when sniping weakspots). 210mm of Bulldog HEAT is not going to reliably penetrate an IS3 or T32 frontally. 250mm HEAT from the SP1C will get the job done.

 

A nice place to do this is the  "balcony" on Airfield,  E5 and E7 respectively.


Edited by jwu, 07 August 2015 - 10:37 AM.


BigFellas_Dad #97 Posted 07 August 2015 - 11:18 AM

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View PostBigFella_uk_, on 07 August 2015 - 01:37 AM, said:

its still crap..

but finally this game get me 6th

 

http://wotreplays.co..._hpanzer_sp_i_c

 

Whoops, I just noticed I wrote this thread after my son was playing on my pc.  This is my first ACE tanker in it, I finally got the top motor and I finally reached 6th sense with this game.  2.3k dmg and 4.4k spotting damage.  I still dont like the tank but this game everything dropped into place for me.

Salutes #98 Posted 20 August 2015 - 07:18 PM

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Did anybody else notice it got vstabs on the 9.10 test server? I hope this isn't a bug and will also be the same on the live server..

jwu #99 Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:13 AM

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Tanks.gg also lists it with VStab for the test server data...that would be awesome!

Cobra6 #100 Posted 31 August 2015 - 03:14 PM

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I've been playing it more so far and while it's far from the best T7 light tank out there I'm actually doing very well in it.

 

Playing solo I average per game:

1744,36 damage

5571,44 wn8

1162 xp

 

Also 68,00% wins solo.

 

I'm seriously thinking of keeping this thing after I finish grinding it (in about 9 matches), it's quite a lot of fun regardless of the fact that it's fairly average for a light tank (It's more of a fragile medium).

 

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