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What's so good about Type 59?


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StringWitch #1 Posted 30 July 2015 - 11:34 AM

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What makes this tank so highly-regarded? To me it seems only remarkable in how average it is (good all-rounder; master of nothing), and I find it only a little more threatening than a T-44, which is generally thought rather lowly of. It doesn't help that most players I see in them are 47%ers, but all the same I've seen people praising its armour and yet my experience is one of penning the upper plate consistently... with the KV-5's gun... firing AP.

 

So, what's so good about it? Or is it not amazing, and just rides on its past reputation?


Edited by StringWitch, 30 July 2015 - 11:37 AM.


BatelGeuce #2 Posted 30 July 2015 - 11:40 AM

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View PostStringWitch, on 30 July 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

just rides on its past reputation

 

:great:

lord_chipmonk #3 Posted 30 July 2015 - 11:46 AM

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View PostStringWitch, on 30 July 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

rides on its past reputation?

 

Partly this. Probably a large part if we're being honest. Having said that, the Type is in its own way comparable to a couple of the other tier 8 mediums, and yet gets preferential matchmaking. Without this, it would be entirely unremarkable, but with it...



Eila_Juutilainen #4 Posted 30 July 2015 - 12:35 PM

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View PostStringWitch, on 30 July 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

What makes this tank so highly-regarded? To me it seems only remarkable in how average it is (good all-rounder; master of nothing), and I find it only a little more threatening than a T-44, which is generally thought rather lowly of. It doesn't help that most players I see in them are 47%ers, but all the same I've seen people praising its armour and yet my experience is one of penning the upper plate consistently... with the KV-5's gun... firing AP.

 

So, what's so good about it? Or is it not amazing, and just rides on its past reputation?

 

With normalisation, the UFP is only 175mm effective from the front. But since KV-5 is so tall, it further negates the slopng. KV-5 is funny like that.

Eokokok #5 Posted 30 July 2015 - 12:38 PM

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Typical tier 8 med gun before power crep mixed with 7 degrees of gun depression and insane tier 9 kind of turret. It is probably the best hull-down med of the tier, being prem on top of that you can spam gold all day. It is very good tank, way better then 54 proto and gets preff MM on top.

Ulicum #6 Posted 30 July 2015 - 12:39 PM

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Reputation mostly.

Also people think its still good because they see them doin better than your average random tank, but its mostly because people driving them nowadays have gazillion games played and most of them have invested time and money.

Per_Saukko_EU #7 Posted 17 August 2015 - 09:52 PM

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Still a very competent tank but it does ride on its past reputation. It is slightly better than T-54 First Prototype. Slightly weaker in stats but it has preferential matchmaking which puts it ahead.


Several nerfs, matchmaking change(it was totally OP in the 4 tier matchmaker when the lower tiers couldn't damage it at all), premium ammo for silver(it is pretty easy to pen with premium ammo) and overall power creep. More and more tanks have been released. There's also hardened competition in the premium tank market. Nowadays there are tanks like FCM 50t and IS-6 that are just better than Type 59. Not by a large margin, but they are. The best case scenario is that Type is as good.

 

The real turn-off of Type 59 is the gun. Much like many other old tanks like SuperPershing, the gun is totally outdated without somewhat aggressive premium spam. Its DPM is meh, its gun handling is meh, its alpha damage is meh and its penetration is meh. The gun doesn't have any concentrated strength to build around. It is just a shitty all-around gun and not even premium ammo makes it good. FCM has much better penetration and accuracy which works great with the view range that is the highest of the tier(400). It's easy to build around that. It snipes very well while also working in close to mid range. FCM very reliably damages almost anything it faces even without gold ammo.

 

The gun of IS-6 often gets called derpy, but in reality it is very powerful and works wonders. It has very high alpha damage combined with very high DPM. The penetration is meh, but that is the one thing about a gun one can consciously upgrade upon need(=premium ammo) and isn't that big a deal. The gun softstats are surprisingly good as well. The tank snap shots insanely well and with the trolly armor and decent mobility it can deal a very heavy blow with minimal exposure time or trade shots very liberally. It sucks for sniping obviously, which is why IS-6 brawls. All in all IS-6 has a very high DPM, very high alpha gun that snap shots well and the penetration can be upgraded to high levels upon need. That's pretty damn good stuff.

 

The bottom line is that the gun of Type 59 leaves it behind the two. Its platform is the best of the three and it is still a very good tank, but it simply carries a weak gun which leaves it behind. We all know how annoying a hulldown Type 59 is and it has a few cute tricks up its sleeve but it cannot capitalize those on advantages with a well below average gun. The gun just does not scare anyone anymore and everyone is carrying a few premium rounds to consistently damage the Type 59. Even if Type loads its own gold round in response, its low meh gun handling, meh alpha and poor DPM will limit the potential of the gold round and many seemingly weaker tanks with better guns can deal with it or hurt it very seriously. FCM will do its fighting from long distance and does not have to worry about getting into unfortunate gold spamming races and being exploitable. FCM also has much higher DPM and penetration than Type 59 in case it finds itself in a stabbing contest.

 

Much like Type 59, the IS-6 armor is vulnerable to gold rounds. The difference though is, the IS-6 just loads its own gold round and overpowers the enemy in shot trading, alpha and/or raw DPM. IS-6's gun becomes a monster with gold rounds, while Type 59 can spam gold all it wants and even then have an average gun. 

 

All in all Type 59 is still a fun preferential matchmaking tank that performs very well. It is a true medium tank and can perform lots of roles. While still an impressive tank, its "overpowered" factor has waned long ago thanks to the metagame changes, power creep, all the major changes I wrote earlier and the poor gun performance.


Edited by Per_Saukko_EU, 17 August 2015 - 10:00 PM.


Freg0 #8 Posted 05 September 2015 - 01:53 PM

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View PostPer_Saukko_EU, on 17 August 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

(...) while Type 59 can spam gold all it wants and even then have an average gun. 

 

All in all Type 59 is still a fun preferential matchmaking tank that performs very well. It is a true medium tank and can perform lots of roles. While still an impressive tank, its "overpowered" factor has waned long ago thanks to the metagame changes, power creep, all the major changes I wrote earlier and the poor gun performance.

 

While you over compliment the Fcm and IS-6 you highly underestimate the gun of the type 59.

For example Type 59 has 181 penetration while it's close relative, the russian t-44 has 170 without premium mm...

Rumour says that t8 premium tanks are weaker than other regular tier 8's. In type 59's case is the opposite. In my opinion is better than most of the other regular tier 8 medium tanks, and is a premium with preferential matchmaking with good earnings.

It's armor is pretty significant with 100 mm of well sloped front armor which easily bounces almost any tier 6 and most of the tier 7's, often even tier 8's if used properly (I even bounced a Leopard PTA 3 times on my front, by using some terrain, making my frontal armor even sloped from hes view.), and let's not talk of it's insane turret with very very small weakspots, and you can easily flank even tier 8 or tier 9 heavies if all hope lost, get very close to them and hope the best he can't pen your turret while you damage and kill them from the side. It's mobility ain't the best, but if you talk the pros of the fcm, comparing to the cons of type 59, why don't you make it vice-versa? What about the non preferencial mm of Fcm, what about it's paper armor which makes it 1 shot for many arties, what about if you get shot by High explosion on your side or back in Fcm? What about your laarge size...you can't even hide that big body properly many times when needed.

With 3978 battles in my Type 59 I can say this tank does not have an awful gun....Is not a good one, but not bad at all...It's reloading time is also okey.

Comparing IS-6 with Type 59 is a hard one. These tanks has totally different purpose on the battlefield. 1vs1 is also hard if you can't get close to IS-6. But folks, one tank is a medium, the other is a heavy. IS-6 is supposed to be stronger in close range...even doe with that 170 mm penetration, this heavy is not penetrating the type's front many times with regular ammunition if the med is well angled.

Overall, the type 59 is one of my favorite tanks of all times, even if nerfed to the ground compared to the old times. My average damage in this tank is around 2 k these days.

You can't run allways a good battle with, many times you just do not have the opportunity to bite it well with, but if you know how to use a well armored medium tank with average penetration and good gun depression for a chinese medium, you can easily deal 3.5k damages ... and here I mention the lack of the ammunition (It can carry only 34). If you survive long enough, fought trough the whole battle...you can run out of ammunition which can be frustrating sometimes :)

 



keyres #9 Posted 09 September 2015 - 06:42 PM

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View PostFreg0, on 05 September 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

(...)  What about the non preferencial mm of Fcm (...) shot by High explosion on your side or back in Fcm? (...)

 

Checks. ... Yup, FCM still has got preferential matchmaker, hence doesn't have to meet the horror of tier X. Maybe you confused it with CDC? That one doesn't get it as easy.

Also, with 80 mm side/rear armour (+ tracks on the side), getting penetrated by HE there is rather unlikely. Note that type has got only 45 mm rear armour, making it (in theory) slightly susceptible to HE rounds (assuming you hit it dead on).



Obsessive_Compulsive #10 Posted 09 September 2015 - 06:49 PM

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actually those wolfpacks were not winning because type 59. they were winning because have groups of 3,4,5, of any medium tank that isnt bottom tier is going to have a serious impact on the battle(also bear in mind that the overallplayer base skill level was much higher) so Imagine mines with 1 side having 4 or 5 green/blue t54;s and the other having none or a couple..

 

yes it was stronger then but not by much!



Nechrom #11 Posted 14 September 2015 - 06:02 PM

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Power creep.

 

How to nerf premiums without directly nerfing them.



Freg0 #12 Posted 20 September 2015 - 01:33 PM

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View Postkeyres, on 09 September 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

 

Checks. ... Yup, FCM still has got preferential matchmaker, hence doesn't have to meet the horror of tier X. Maybe you confused it with CDC? That one doesn't get it as easy.

Also, with 80 mm side/rear armour (+ tracks on the side), getting penetrated by HE there is rather unlikely. Note that type has got only 45 mm rear armour, making it (in theory) slightly susceptible to HE rounds (assuming you hit it dead on).

 

Well, I am not hiding my mistake. I am serious when I say I did not know the Fcm does have premium mm Lol. I was 100% it gets t10 battles. MY bad.

Charcharo #13 Posted 28 September 2015 - 08:36 PM

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At this point you are always fighting experienced Type players with 6+ skill crews.

So... there is also that....

Radu_Korne #14 Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:31 AM

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Mate, you would've believe how many 1000 wn8 Type 59 players are out there ...



SupremeHunter #15 Posted 29 September 2015 - 05:21 PM

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Real question is: what's NOT so good? 

 



Eokokok #16 Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:02 AM

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View PostCharcharo, on 28 September 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

At this point you are always fighting experienced Type players with 6+ skill crews.

So... there is also that....

 

No true, just met a guy with stats so red he makes communist party look pale in comparison... Just saying, there are alot of bad/mediocre Typle players out there.

 

Still, great turret and 7 degrees of gun depression, more then enough to make it viable, with pref MM on top it is still strong.



Charcharo #17 Posted 30 September 2015 - 09:59 PM

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View PostRadu_Korne, on 29 September 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

Mate, you would've believe how many 1000 wn8 Type 59 players are out there ...

 

View PostEokokok, on 30 September 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

 

No true, just met a guy with stats so red he makes communist party look pale in comparison... Just saying, there are alot of bad/mediocre Typle players out there.

 

Still, great turret and 7 degrees of gun depression, more then enough to make it viable, with pref MM on top it is still strong.

 


I know quite well. But this is not an argument in this case. I obviously mean the average players. 

Also, from what I remember (and I could be mistaken) those mods show a player's overall stats. Not the ones of his current tank...

Fluffy_The_Destroyer #18 Posted 30 September 2015 - 10:28 PM

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View PostRadu_Korne, on 29 September 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Mate, you would've believe how many 1000 wn8 Type 59 players are out there ...

 

This... i seen some below 500! but yes.. you compare any normal tier 8 medium to type 59 and will stand toe to toe with them easy. especially armor. its not OP. but its a bit too good to have preff MM.

Freg0 #19 Posted 26 November 2015 - 08:35 PM

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View PostDEADE1, on 17 August 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

back in the day the type 59 was a force multiplier. The more in your team, the higher chance you had in winning. Basicaly everyone with any amount of skill and knowhow bought one. The rest just watched in horror as their teams were decimated again and again and again by experienced wolfpacks of tyep59's. 

 

But then they werent for sale anymore. And then they got super nerfed over and over and the magic was all gone. 

 

I miss it.

 

I actually don't miss because I just bought myn right before they deleted from the storepage. It's old glory was over at that point. But I remember driving my first tier 6 tank in the game, the VK3001P when the horror happened and the type 59 packs started to flow into games. I just prayed tu turn his side to be able to penetrate at least 1 time...Of couse at that time tanks had +-3 tier mm and no gold for credits. :P That sucks:)

Freg0 #20 Posted 26 November 2015 - 08:36 PM

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View PostStringWitch, on 30 July 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

What makes this tank so highly-regarded? To me it seems only remarkable in how average it is (good all-rounder; master of nothing), and I find it only a little more threatening than a T-44, which is generally thought rather lowly of. It doesn't help that most players I see in them are 47%ers, but all the same I've seen people praising its armour and yet my experience is one of penning the upper plate consistently... with the KV-5's gun... firing AP.

 

So, what's so good about it? Or is it not amazing, and just rides on its past reputation?

 

I just played this today. Download it if you are interested. 6.2k damage. http://wotreplays.eu...p-freg0-type_59




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