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My Honor Was Loyalty

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PanzerTedo #1 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:07 PM

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Hey!

 

Any of you guys waiting for this movie to finally be released? We will finally see a movie from a german point of view ( SS poin of view on war). No hollywood bullsh**, but european independent movie.

 

 

 

Please, follow the forum rules in discussion.

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Thx for understanding.

ClearEvil


Edited by ClearEvil, 12 October 2015 - 02:04 PM.


Sapaki #2 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:15 PM

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Haven't heard of the movie before you mentioned it, I will give it a look, see what reviews it will get.

 

However these guys are going down a VERY slipery slope...



Tidal_Force #3 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:18 PM

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View PostPanzerTedo, on 12 October 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

( SS poin of view on war).

 

Like what?

"Villagers all had wrong noses and dark hair so we had to kill them all. It's their own fault they made us spend valuable ammo."


Edited by Tidal_Force, 12 October 2015 - 12:18 PM.


Sapaki #4 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:25 PM

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View PostTidal_Force, on 12 October 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

 

Like what?

"Villagers all had wrong noses and dark hair so we had to kill them all. It's their own fault they made us spend valuable ammo."

 

"I am a good guy! That little temperamental guy with the funny moustache made me do it!"

Geralt_z_Rivii365 #5 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:25 PM

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View PostPanzerTedo, on 12 October 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

 We will finally see a movie from a german point of view ( SS poin of view on war). No hollywood bullsh**, but european independent movie.

 

You srsly bro?



Sapaki #6 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:29 PM

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I though about the possibility that OP might be referring to Wermacht point of view of the war, which where actual soldiers, but then I noticed the collar of the guy in the still picture of the video and I said "-Nope that is not Wermacht, this is 100% good ol' SS"

 

So sliperry slope I was saying? Rather a cliff covered in ice!

 

Still, I will wait to see some reviews of the film, or even watching it before judjing it, but I am afraid... I am very afraid...


Edited by Sapaki, 12 October 2015 - 12:29 PM.


Cobra6 #7 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:29 PM

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It's just sad that people still confuse different branches of the SS and all treat them alike.

 

It would be good to see a war from the Waffen-SS perspective granted that it portrays it realistically and doesn't make them look better where it shouldn't and make them look worse where it shouldn't.

 

People here on the forum seem to suffer from the same syndrome where anything that has SS on it works like a red patch does with a bull. There was a good part of the Waffen-SS that were just ordinary elite soldier units that engaged into combat. They had nothing to do with the war crimes committed by other unrelated branches of the SS.

 

Anyone that comes into this thread with the mentality of: "All of the SS was equally bad, m'kay", please, just don't. You are only making a fool of yourself in doing so. Research the subject matter a bit better, get to know the differences and then come back with a more balanced opinion.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 12 October 2015 - 12:43 PM.


Sapaki #8 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:33 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 12 October 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

It's just sad that people still confuse different branches of the SS and all treat them alike.

 

It would be good to see a war from the Waffen-SS perspective granted that it portrays it realistically and doesn't make them look better where it shouldn't and make them look worse where it shouldn't

 

Cobra 6

 

Enlighten plz!

 

What branches where "good" and which ones where the "bad" ones? What has history taught us on that issue? More importantly, what is this movie about judging by the trailer?

 


Edited by Sapaki, 12 October 2015 - 12:35 PM.


Bulldog_Drummond #9 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:34 PM

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View PostPanzerTedo, on 12 October 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Hey!

 

Any of you guys waiting for this movie to finally be released? We will finally see a movie from a german point of view ( SS poin of view on war). No hollywood bullsh**, but european independent movie.

 

The word "honour" is not one that can be used in the context of the SS.  People sometimes try and claim that there was a difference between the Waffen SS and the rest but it's a pretty feeble claim.  The first few minutes of the beginning of the excellent 'World at War' documentary series shows what the 2nd Waffen-SS Panzer Division Das Reich could casually get up to in just a few hours at Oradour.

 

I don't think that this new film sounds like a good idea at all.

 


Edited by Bulldog_Drummond, 12 October 2015 - 12:34 PM.


Ceeb #10 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:35 PM

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View PostPanzerTedo, on 12 October 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Hey!

 

Any of you guys waiting for this movie to finally be released? We will finally see a movie from a german point of view ( SS poin of view on war). No hollywood bullsh**, but european independent movie.

 

 

 

I loved the mini series. Generation War... gave light to the "other side" and showed that the enemy are soldiers too. 

 

Not an expert or authority on the SS by all means (unlike my former Clan commander) but will be interesting to see this.... as long As its doesn't glamorize the SS, there are too many Neo-Nazies groups all over the world that couple use it as a recruitment film but as a film that says..... ok i'm blond blue eyes....fit the profile, i was drafted this way....etc etc......i'm a nice guy.... honest.


Edited by Ceeb, 12 October 2015 - 12:40 PM.


Tidal_Force #11 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:35 PM

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Ok. Jokes aside, here's explanation: SS was a voluntary force for all the most fervent nazis. On the other hand, Wehrmaht was the main army using draft to keep the gears of war turning.

This "little difference" means that sizeable chunk of Wehrmaht soldiers were forced to fight against their will (that includes other nationalities, as germans forcibly drafted people from occupied areas), also there were cases of people being executed for refusing to fight, meanwhile SS was voluntary so pretty much every SS soldier choose that formation specifically because of his love for 3rd Reich.

 

That distinction means that we can judge SS as a whole to be complete monsters, while in case of Wehrmaht, we would have to judge people on case-by-case basis.

 

EDIT: Interesting. Looking up details, I just found out that in 1943 SS started using conscription too, which is reflected in international law: soldiers who joined prior that date and post that date are treated differently. In this light, it's pretty safe bet that this movie will exploit this little fact to pretend that "SS actually weren't so bad".


Edited by Tidal_Force, 12 October 2015 - 12:49 PM.


Cobra6 #12 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:35 PM

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View PostSapaki, on 12 October 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

Enlighten plz!

 

What branches where "good" and which ones where the "bad" ones? What has history taught us. More importantly, what is this movie about judging by the trailer?

 

 

Expanded my original post, you'll find your answer there.

 

Cobra 6



anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #13 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:36 PM

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This again...

 

 

 

 

"Uncle Hitler wasn't such a bad guy. He gave us the Auto-bahn and Volkswagen."


Edited by Spek_en_Bonen, 12 October 2015 - 12:41 PM.


JCTagger #14 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:37 PM

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After all theses years, should be possible to look back reasonably fairly at the whole sorry saga...

 

Because, as I keep reminding the young lads at work - If we forget, it'll happen again.:confused:


Edited by JCTagger, 12 October 2015 - 12:39 PM.


Barba_Electrica #15 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:39 PM

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-------------------------------


Edited by Barba_Electrica, 08 March 2018 - 12:21 PM.


Sapaki #16 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:43 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 12 October 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

 

Expanded my original post, you'll find your answer there.

 

Cobra 6

 

I read your post, but from the little I remember from Guderian's memoirs I read a long long time ago, and the lengths he went in order to distinguish the Wermacht from anything SS related, I find this explanation more plausible: 

 

View PostTidal_Force, on 12 October 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Ok. Jokes aside, here's explanation: Waffen SS was a voluntary force for all the most fervent nazis. On the other hand, Wehrmaht was the main army using draft to keep the gears of war turning.

This "little difference" means that sizeable chunk of Wehrmaht soldiers were forced to fight against their will (that includes other nationalities, as germans forcibly drafted people from occupied areas), also there were cases of people being executed for refusing to fight, meanwhile SS was voluntary so pretty much every SS soldier choose that formation specifically because of his love for 3rd Reich.

 

That distinction means that we can judge SS as a whole to be complete monsters, while in case of Wehrmaht, we would have to judge people on case-by-case basis.

 

Still, let's wait for someone that has seen the film when it comes out to tell us what is it about...

 



Cobra6 #17 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:46 PM

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View PostSapaki, on 12 October 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

 

I read your post, but from the little I remember from Guderian's memoirs I read a long long time ago, and the lengths he went in order to distinguish the Wermacht from anything SS related, I find this explanation more plausible: 

 

 

Got the same book here in my bookshelf, looking at it now. It's parked in between the other ~60 books I have and read on WW2 from both sides of the conflict.

 

Cobra 6

 

 



anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #18 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:47 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 12 October 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

It's just sad that people still confuse different branches of the SS and all treat them alike.

 

It would be good to see a war from the Waffen-SS perspective granted that it portrays it realistically and doesn't make them look better where it shouldn't and make them look worse where it shouldn't.

 

People here on the forum seem to suffer from the same syndrome where anything that has SS on it works like a red patch does with a bull. There was a good part of the Waffen-SS that were just ordinary elite soldier units that engaged into combat. They had nothing to do with the war crimes committed by other unrelated branches of the SS.

 

Cobra 6

 

Elite through selection, not training or equipment.

Plus "The good" Foreign Legions only received 2 weeks training, to be sent to the Eastern Front as cannon fodder for the regular units... They were not the real o.g. SS.



Tidal_Force #19 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:52 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 12 October 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

It's just sad that people still confuse different branches of the SS and all treat them alike.

 

It would be good to see a war from the Waffen-SS perspective granted that it portrays it realistically and doesn't make them look better where it shouldn't and make them look worse where it shouldn't.

 

People here on the forum seem to suffer from the same syndrome where anything that has SS on it works like a red patch does with a bull. There was a good part of the Waffen-SS that were just ordinary elite soldier units that engaged into combat. They had nothing to do with the war crimes committed by other unrelated branches of the SS.

 

Anyone that comes into this thread with the mentality of: "All of the SS was equally bad, m'kay", please, just don't. You are only making a fool of yourself in doing so. Research the subject matter a bit better, get to know the differences and then come back with a more balanced opinion.

 

Cobra 6

 

Meanwhile:

 

Wiki

 

The separately organised Allgemeine SS was responsible for the administration of extermination camps. Many members of it and the SS-Totenkopfverbände subsequently became members of the Waffen-SS, forming the initial core of the Totenkopf Division.[23][26] Many Waffen-SS members and units were responsible for war crimes against civilians and allied servicemen. After the war the SS organisation as a whole was held to be a criminal organization by the post-war German government, due to evidence that it was responsible for war crimes. Formations such as the Dirlewanger and Kaminski Brigades were singled out, and many others were involved in large-scale massacres or smaller-scale killings such as murder of 34 captured allied servicemen ordered by Josef Kieffer during Operation Bulbasket in 1944, the Houtman affair,[112] or murders perpetrated by Heinrich Boere. The most infamous incidents include the following:

 

This doesn't look like a track record of "ordinary elite soldiers".


Edited by Tidal_Force, 12 October 2015 - 12:52 PM.


Balc0ra #20 Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:53 PM

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View PostSapaki, on 12 October 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

Enlighten plz!

 

What branches where "good" and which ones where the "bad" ones? What has history taught us on that issue? More importantly, what is this movie about judging by the trailer?

 

 

Ask my great grandfather that question if he was still alive and he would tell you something different. As I did indeed ask him that myself... or close to it. Though he did not talk much about the war until the end of his life.

 

He simply said "The normal German soldier was just like you an me. They mostly just followed orders, some even did not want to be there or a part of it. So some of us felt bad fighting them at times. But the second we saw an SS badge, we knew the game had changed. Why? Unlike the normal German soldier, they wanted to be there. They all followed the same thing and ideas. And unlike the common German soldier. They fought 10x harder for it. Thus we felt little pity fighting them"

 

Sure SS was mostly just "elite" soldiers. But they all joined following the same ideas. Germans had non SS elite groups to, just saying. But those that joined the SS joined it for a reason according to him, not because they were good fighters. But because they all fought for the same thing. The same goal. Thus he was more scared fighting them vs one that did not have it. As some of his squad mates did not fit that goal and ideas they had.


Edited by Balc0ra, 12 October 2015 - 12:56 PM.






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