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M46 Patton vs other T9 mediums


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Lupusceleri #1 Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:28 PM

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First off, I want to know why the E-50 and T-54 have good frontal armour, while the Patton is completely made of paper. Especially the E-50 is effed up, if you can't flank him you'll sometimes bounce 3 shots in a row off his lower hull provided that he slightly angles it. Give us some turret armour (~185mm-~200mm) in line with the US heavies and other medium turrets, and let the hull stay as it is now?

Second, I also want to know where Patton's accuracy on the move "advantage" has gone, because it doesn't seem to be here at all (well it's more accurate on the move because the tank has a lower topspeed than the other two meds). Give us back that accuracy on the move advantage!

Third, why are we capped at 48 km/h max speed when the other two mediums get 56 km/h and 60 km/h topspeeds respectively? Even an IS-7 with Oil+Governor @ 50 km/h can get into position faster than a Patton with Oil on a road (yes I own them both and I tested it out). Give us 55 km/h topspeed at the very least!

I know 1 and 3 have to do with historical information, but since when have WoT devs stuck perfectly to these anyway? Many tanks have been beefed up or down depending on balancing needs. In this case the Patton definitely needs some love to get back on par with the other meds. Oh yeah, I know that the Patton is meant to fight on hills and all but not every map has places where it can outclass the other nations' gun depression.

shnbwmn #2 Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:43 PM

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Same with T30 mate. The game is designed so that other nations will win over the american tanks. Sad but true.  

At the moment the T30 is completely unplayable. Good job Wargaming.

Animistic #3 Posted 01 September 2011 - 05:11 PM

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Bump, Patton is least scary of Tier 9 mediums, since you can always reliably land penetrating hits on it.

So give some love for the red headed stepchild of T9 mediums.

Le_Petit_Lapin #4 Posted 01 September 2011 - 05:15 PM

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Surely the way to use it is hulldown, given that your mantlet can bounce T10 Gold ammo?

Bangodan #5 Posted 01 September 2011 - 06:14 PM

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View PostLe_Petit_Lapin, on 01 September 2011 - 05:15 PM, said:

Surely the way to use it is hulldown, given that your mantlet can bounce T10 Gold ammo?

In a patton?

Rex_Ryan #6 Posted 01 September 2011 - 06:26 PM

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My suggestions would be to give Patton the M48 turret instead its current M47 or arm it with the Royal Ordnance L7 / M68 gun (current inaccurate 105mm can't be the L7, right?). Both changes could be historically justified. But heck, I would even settle for some decent accuracy.

I don't see it happen though, as I see E-50's noob rush almost as frequently as T-54's nowadays. Given WG's win ratio balancing, we can only expect more nerfs for the Patton in the future.

Zhalfirim #7 Posted 01 September 2011 - 06:35 PM

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View PostRex_Ryan, on 01 September 2011 - 06:26 PM, said:

My suggestions would be to give Patton the M48 turret instead its current M47 or arm it with the Royal Ordnance L7 / M68 gun (current inaccurate 105mm can't be the L7, right?). Both changes could be historically justified. But heck, I would even settle for some decent accuracy.

I don't see it happen though, as I see E-50's noob rush almost as frequently as T-54's nowadays. Given WG's win ratio balancing, we can only expect more nerfs for the Patton in the future.

Pretty much this. As long as we Patton drivers use brain while riding this tank, we will not get any buffs. From all medium opponents I met I usually have most problems with other Pattons. T-54 is like 75% drooling simpleton and E-50 most of the time cant play to its advantages. Only Patton drivers seems to be really using the map and surroundings, also you will not see them blindly rushing. I think playing the paper US medium tanks will teach you how to play carefully and effectively.

mamlas #8 Posted 01 September 2011 - 07:25 PM

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View PostAnimistic, on 01 September 2011 - 05:11 PM, said:

Bump, Patton is least scary of Tier 9 mediums, since you can always reliably land penetrating hits on it.

So give some love for the red headed stepchild of T9 mediums.

Thats kinda wrong in my experience. (im talking about equally experienced players)
Patton is in 1v1 superior to T-54. And in urban combat its THE medium to have. It lacks the sniping/scouting power, but close quarters its superior.

I mean, in T-54 i cant win. (side is unarmored, so i lose by DPS) Front MAY bounce, but i have ammo rack behind it. And that means one hit, i get blown up (seldom, but happens) or i lose my reload speed. Either way i lose.

So don't give me this "underpowered" crap.

I sure am scared of enemy pattons more than anything apart from T30 and JT.

DenySpark #9 Posted 01 September 2011 - 08:29 PM

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I own an M46 Patton and all can i say is that im disapointed of this tank.His armor just suck...i have few battles but in all my battles few shoots bounced me.At least 115-120mm of hull armor...This tanks is made of f.cking paper....Good Job wargaming for being russians fan-boys.

Lupusceleri #10 Posted 01 September 2011 - 08:36 PM

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View PostLe_Petit_Lapin, on 01 September 2011 - 05:15 PM, said:

Surely the way to use it is hulldown, given that your mantlet can bounce T10 Gold ammo?
1. Amount of times you can go hull down are rare at best, and any opponent with a brain will simply deny it and rush you.

2. Mantlet is a liiiiiiiittle bit bouncier than the rest of the turret, but it's not even close to covering the whole front:

Posted Image

Sander93 #11 Posted 01 September 2011 - 08:42 PM

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Patton should be used like the Panther II was; a second line support vehicle. It has no armor so hide behind others that take the hits, and meanwhile use superior DPM to lay waste to any opposing force. As with all T9 mediums, it has a specific role and you can't expect it to perform like the others.

It's great at what it does; as a fire support tank with the best view range ingame. It sucks at most else. But so do the other T9s.

ICE_MAN #12 Posted 19 September 2011 - 12:53 PM

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View PostSander93, on 01 September 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

Patton should be used like the Panther II was; a second line support vehicle. It has no armor so hide behind others that take the hits, and meanwhile use superior DPM to lay waste to any opposing force. As with all T9 mediums, it has a specific role and you can't expect it to perform like the others.

It's great at what it does; as a fire support tank with the best view range ingame. It sucks at most else. But so do the other T9s.
Patton is an absolutely awesome tank - when used right. It is true it has little armour, and doesn't have the top speed of other tanks. It does have a couple of other strengths though; it turns incredibly fast, turret traverse is good and gun depression is excellent. It brakes and reverses fast, acceleration is very good. Accuracy (despite the stats) isn't bad at all and aiming time is excellent - not to mention that its DPS is higher than any other medium. Play it like a T54 or E50 (or even worse like a heavy tank or even worse worse do the insta-rush-to-spot-arty-and-die TM) and you are bound to have a bad experience.

Pop ventilation, rammer and coated optics on there and you have a true multirole fighter. The trick is to not engage anyone in a pitched battle and stay mobile but mostly in cover. I've so far managed to average 1000 xp/battle and over 2000 damage/battle on my Patton...

steamrick #13 Posted 19 September 2011 - 04:17 PM

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View Postaclaudi, on 19 September 2011 - 12:53 PM, said:

Pop ventilation, rammer and coated optics on there and you have a true multirole fighter. The trick is to not engage anyone in a pitched battle and stay mobile but mostly in cover. I've so far managed to average 1000 xp/battle and over 2000 damage/battle on my Patton...

I also manage to get 2000 damage/battle...
... but somehow about 1 in 3 games, I get almost insta-popped somehow. And no, I'm not senselessly rushing into the enemy tanks.

Apart from that, I have an average exp of 750 (on T20 I have 850) and a win ratio of 13/30 games (43%, against 62% on T20)
judging by that and the fact that I drove the t9 pershing during beta, the patton is somewhat sub-par currently.

Perhaps the second turret will help, but so far, even when hull-down everyone (and his mommy) seems to shoot right through me.
Plus, whenever I'm spotted everyone else will ignore any t-54s or E-50s on my team and shoot at me. Hence getting insta-popped.

My experience is: A very nice brawler and accuracy on the move is good, but it would greatly benefit if:
- base accuracy was moved down to at most 0,35 (it keeps missing shots at distances where it shouldnt miss)
- turret armor (at least on second turret) was increased to >150 so it can effectively go hull-down.

Hull armor on par with the other mediums would be nice, too, but I'm fine with just getting the turret reinforced so I can actually use that great gun-depression.

Snoken #14 Posted 19 September 2011 - 04:29 PM

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View PostSander93, on 01 September 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

Patton should be used like the Panther II was; a second line support vehicle. It has no armor so hide behind others that take the hits, and meanwhile use superior DPM to lay waste to any opposing force. As with all T9 mediums, it has a specific role and you can't expect it to perform like the others.

It's great at what it does; as a fire support tank with the best view range ingame. It sucks at most else. But so do the other T9s.

So the patton is really no different then the pershing(when it was t9).

naiboo #15 Posted 23 September 2011 - 01:38 PM

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i´m really missing to bounce some shots on us mediums.
t-54 bounces lots on front and especially on turret, same E-50.
patton can be penetrated by tier 6 guns and above EVERYWHERE :(

TerminusEst #16 Posted 24 September 2011 - 06:15 AM

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"Armor is a part of a state of mind... in which you accept the possibility of being hit"

steamrick #17 Posted 24 September 2011 - 07:00 AM

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yeah, the possibility.

In other tier 9 vehicles there's also the possibility of bouncing the shots. In Patton, we have...

1) the certainty of being targetet by every vehicle with less than 225pen (and usually even by those with high penetration values)
2) the certainty that those shots will inevitably go straight through the armor

I mean, if you're sitting in Tiger or T29 with 200pen and you have a patton and a T-54 charging at you, who would you target? The guy with the bouncy armor or the guy with the weak armor and the strong gun?
For me the choice is easy: Take out the big gun you can reliably damage and if your teammates do the same maybe you'll even get a chance to snipe at the flanks of the T-54...


I have only one tank in my garage that bounces less shots than the patton: my t20. But comparatively speaking, the T20 has a much larger HP pool and also it doesn't get targeted by everyone the way patton does.

mamlas #18 Posted 24 September 2011 - 08:37 AM

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View Poststeamrick, on 24 September 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

I mean, if you're sitting in Tiger or T29 with 200pen and you have a patton and a T-54 charging at you, who would you target? The guy with the bouncy armor or the guy with the weak armor and the strong gun?
For me the choice is easy: Take out the big gun you can reliably damage and if your teammates do the same maybe you'll even get a chance to snipe at the flanks of the T-54...

Well, its not just because of your armor. The logic behind targeting pattons is quite simple.

If patton/T-54 charges.
Patton is more likely to hit you on the move
Patton has far greater dps
Patton has far greater alpha strike
And yes, Patton is easier to penetrate at range. You can pen T-54 easily close combat, and its not like it poses threat from range anyhow.

So...you are complaining about being targeted for being stronger? :D

Perzel #19 Posted 24 September 2011 - 05:36 PM

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The fact that mades the patton better then other T9 Mediums is, that it is worse. So the players have to be better. An Averege Patton player is five times better then the best T54 player.

mamlas #20 Posted 24 September 2011 - 09:04 PM

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View PostPerzel, on 24 September 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:

The fact that mades the patton better then other T9 Mediums is, that it is worse. So the players have to be better. An Averege Patton player is five times better then the best T54 player.

Of course you are :D And we are all proud of your gaming prowess.