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WN8 Formula - Detailed Breakdown (Stat nerds should drop by)


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Ugandan_Shaman #1 Posted 09 January 2016 - 07:38 PM

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So, since most of us use WN8 to measure the the so called "skill", I decided to actually take some time and understand this formula. It is pretty simple. The formula (which I will be explaining in this thread) can be found here http://wiki.wnefficiency.net/pages/WN8

The data you need to calculate your WN8 can be found on VBADDICT http://www.vbaddict.net/wot.php . Expected values for each individual tank can be found here -> http://www.wnefficiency.net/wnexpected/ or they are on VBADDICT as well.

So, having all the data we can start.

 

STEP 1:

rDAMAGE = avgDmg / expDmg -> Basically you divide your average damage / expected damage.
rSPOT = avgSpot / expSpot -> Divide Average Spots Per battle / Expected Average Spots Per Battle.
rFRAG = avgFrag / expFrag -> Divide Average Kills Per Battle / Expected Kills Per Battle.
rDEF = avgDef / expDef -> Divide Average "Decap" Points Per Battle ( Defense points) / Expected "Decap" Points per battle.
rWIN = avgWinRate / expWinRate -> Divide Average Winrate / Expected Winrate.

So, knowing what these  factors are, lets give you an example. I will be calculating the WN8  for my E50M.

  Average Values Expected Values rValues
rDAMAGE 3665 1840.29 1.99
rSPOT 1.84 1.41 1.30
rFRAG 1.88 0.93 2.02
rDEF 1.51 0.76 1.98
rWIN 70.5 48.73 1.44

 

Block Quote - Quoting from http://wiki.wnefficiency.net/pages/WN8

 Step 1 takes the counts of tanks played on account, and multiplies them by the expected stats to get the account total expected values. Then the actual account totals (your total dmg, frags, spots, def, win-rate) are divided by the total expected values to give the ratios.

 

STEP II:

This can be tricky, but I'll try to explain it in as much depth as possible.

Before we start, lets settle a few things down:

MAX(X,Y) = Returns the highest value ( Basically if X > Y then it will return X, else, if Y > X it  will return Y and so on)

MIN(X,Y) = Returns the lowest value.

I guess they  did this so people don't get negative values, normally it will always be higher than 0, so just ignore the 0.

rWINc = max(0, (rWIN - 0.71) / (1 - 0.71) ) -> Basically this is (rWIN - 0.71) / (1 - 0.71). 
rDAMAGEc = max(0, (rDAMAGE - 0.22) / (1 - 0.22) )
rFRAGc = max(0, min(rDAMAGEc + 0.2, (rFRAG - 0.12) / (1 - 0.12))) -> Its either (rDAMAGEc + 0.2) or (rFRAG - 0.12) / (1 - 0.12). Depends which one is the lowest.
rSPOTc = max(0, min(rDAMAGEc + 0.1, (rSPOT - 0.38) / (1 - 0.38)))
rDEFc = max(0, min(rDAMAGEc + 0.1, (rDEF - 0.10) / (1 - 0.10)))

 

Lets take a look at my E50M values, again. ( Used microsoft xcel to calculate, hope I didn't mess anything up)

rDAMAGEC 2.27
rSPOTc 1.49
rFRAGc 2.16
rDEFc 2.09
rWINc 2.54

 

STEP III: The formula itself 

WN8 = 980*rDAMAGEc + 210*rDAMAGEc*rFRAGc + 155*rFRAGc*rSPOTc + 75*rDEFc*rFRAGc + 145*MIN(1.8,rWINc)

 

Alright, lets see what we get in this particular case:

WN8= 980*2.27 + 210*2.27*2.16 + 155*2.16*1.49 + 75*2.09*2.16 + 145*MIN(1.8, 2.54) ≈ 4356.79

Lets see what vbaddict has to say. -> E50M WN8: 4353.30 . Pretty close. Probably I got a higher number because I used 6 decimals in excel instead of 2.

http://www.vbaddict.net/wn8/1stwarlord-eu-b9196dfce96da5a4945d91e880241b58/germany-1/e_50_ausf__m-48

                       Value     Percentage

Damage Dealt 2,225.77 51.1%
Frags 1,028.21 23.6%
Spotted 499.16 11.5%
Defence 339.16 7.8%
Winrate 261.00 6.0 %
Sum
4,353.30
 
 Above you can see  that I got more than half of my WN8 on the E50M simply by doing a lot of damage.

 

Conclussions:

  • WN8 is mostly balanced around damage and kills.
  • It takes into account SPOTS ( "initial spots", like spotting someone for the first time in the battle)
  • I guess I will go back and reset the base more often :D
  • Winrate is also a factor.

Edited by 1stWarlord, 09 January 2016 - 08:11 PM.


Obsessive_Compulsive #2 Posted 09 January 2016 - 08:06 PM

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To simplify the above. Play aggresive, do lots of damage and get lots of kills. The end!

nudisti #3 Posted 09 January 2016 - 09:08 PM

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thanks mate, now I know how to stet ped my wn8 more efficently!

Strange_Neighbour #4 Posted 09 January 2016 - 09:44 PM

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Why play for stats... :facepalm:

Homer_J #5 Posted 09 January 2016 - 10:06 PM

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I thought you were going to explain something. All you did is throw some numbers at us. 

 

It's still voodoo black magic. 

 

And it doesn't measure fun. 



Ugandan_Shaman #6 Posted 09 January 2016 - 10:16 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 10 January 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

I thought you were going to explain something. All you did is throw some numbers at us. 

 

It's still voodoo black magic. 

 

And it doesn't measure fun. 

 

Well... Explaining by giving examples & showing people how it actually works.

anonym_wFwtG91bYnxC #7 Posted 09 January 2016 - 10:22 PM

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If lies, damn lies and statistics floats your boat, and you want to save getting the slide rule out, this website will help you.

 

http://www.targetdamage.com/

 



7LV #8 Posted 09 January 2016 - 10:30 PM

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I have a better way,

 

Take any random player with HIGH WR

1stWarlord

 

Then goto any stat site

 

http://www.noobmeter...20160109_132530

 

and look up the random with high WR for any period...

and then play same tanks... to guarantee easy route to  +WR

 

Looks like T-22 sr is the tank to pad in......

 

thanks for the info....

Will use it to focus out players for +WR + better WN8


Edited by 5cream, 09 January 2016 - 10:31 PM.


TankkiPoju #9 Posted 09 January 2016 - 10:32 PM

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I played today about 50 games... with a 41% winrate... my WN8 being the usual 2.2-2.5k. 1.4 kills per game, always in the front lines.

 

It was so bad, I turned on XVM stats for the first time in few years, just to see the teams.

 

Wasn't a good idea... ignorance is bliss. But on the plus side, I got my mastery badge with a 1766 base XP game in E50, which kind of makes the day.

 

 



Ugandan_Shaman #10 Posted 09 January 2016 - 10:32 PM

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View Post5cream, on 10 January 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

I have a better way,

 

Take any random player with HIGH WR

1stWarlord

 

Then goto any stat site

 

http://www.noobmeter...20160109_132530

 

and look up the random with high WR for any period...

and then play same tanks... to guarantee easy route to  +WR

 

Looks like T-22 sr is the tank to pad in......

 

thanks for the info....

Will use it to focus out players for +WR + better WN8

 

I'm not sure if you are aware, but noobmeter doesn't use the updated expected values... It's outdated. If you want to prove a point either use wotlabs or vbaddict. Cheers.

Edited by 1stWarlord, 09 January 2016 - 10:34 PM.


Obsessive_Compulsive #11 Posted 09 January 2016 - 10:42 PM

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Hey haters... this is a good thread... usefull info.. no gold ammo or arty whine or y i heff ben i chute teym onli 3 timez...

 

so give pos reps to OP... thanks...



anonym_wFwtG91bYnxC #12 Posted 09 January 2016 - 10:46 PM

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Point still looks proved to me.

 

http://www.wotlabs.n...ayer/1stwarlord

 

But hats off to your skill anyway.



7LV #13 Posted 09 January 2016 - 11:02 PM

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View Post1stWarlord, on 09 January 2016 - 09:32 PM, said:

 

I'm not sure if you are aware, but noobmeter doesn't use the updated expected values... It's outdated. If you want to prove a point either use wotlabs or vbaddict. Cheers.

 

Just in case you did not realize, I was j/k ing.....

Any Stat site would do, wot-life, wotlabs etc....

 

I personally don't care for WN8 or anything that is a distractive focus from real tactical decision on the field....

I try to have max fun while trying to win....

 

 


Edited by 5cream, 09 January 2016 - 11:04 PM.


Ugandan_Shaman #14 Posted 09 January 2016 - 11:06 PM

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View Post5cream, on 10 January 2016 - 01:02 AM, said:

I try to have max fun while trying to win....

Totally agree, games should be played for fun.



Obsessive_Compulsive #15 Posted 09 January 2016 - 11:51 PM

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View Post1stWarlord, on 09 January 2016 - 11:06 PM, said:

Totally agree, games should be played for fun.

 

hey fix my neg rep... god damn it!

SilentFear #16 Posted 10 January 2016 - 02:46 AM

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Well belived it or not i have never actully checked how the wn8 formula is calculated. 

I had a clue thats "Do as much dmg as soon as possible, kill and if you can do some spoting - thats a bonus" but i didnt know the details. 

 

This was rather clean and smiple and quite easy to undurstands. Cheers.

 

On a side not - damn you and your E50 stats. How dare you been better in my most beloved tank !



Obsessive_Compulsive #17 Posted 10 January 2016 - 03:36 AM

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View PostSilentFear, on 10 January 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

Well belived it or not i have never actully checked how the wn8 formula is calculated. 

I had a clue thats "Do as much dmg as soon as possible, kill and if you can do some spoting - thats a bonus" but i didnt know the details. 

 

This was rather clean and smiple and quite easy to undurstands. Cheers.

 

On a side not - damn you and your E50 stats. How dare you been better in my most beloved tank !

 

you suck in e50....:hiding:

SilentFear #18 Posted 10 January 2016 - 03:46 AM

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View PostConor_Notorious_McGregor, on 10 January 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

 

you suck in e50....:hiding:

 

Damn you and your high performance in E-50. 

I call hax, mods or gold ammo. 

If non of that - Serb have blessed you !



Rolling_Stoned #19 Posted 10 January 2016 - 04:25 AM

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You have missed some hugely important factors:
 

1. WN stands for weighted and normalized, it is weighted on the number of battles you've played and normalized for the average tier you play in (in the case of a single tank the average tier will be fixed rather than being variable).
So if you have an overall average damage of 400 but you've only played tier 1 and have few battles you're going to be fine, but if you have 20k battles and 50% of these were done at tier 1 then your wn8 will be crap.
2. WR will boost your WN8 by 10% maximum, that would equal to 60% victories. The reason of this is that WR can be padded by either platooning with very good players or playing lower tiers.
3. "WN8 seeks to measure the observable contribution to matches, across an account, and hopefully infers some information about the latent variable "skill". WN8 should not be considered the be-all-end-all of skill evaluation. It is intended to be looked at next to win-rate, battle count, average tier, and will never replace the inspection of the Service Record or platooning with someone or watching their replays. This is because WN8 cannot capture things like timing, target priority, teamwork or decision making abilities."

People and most importantly clans should stop being obsessive with stats and having crazy requirements. Back in the day when these kind of statistics systems didn't exist and WoT wasn't born yet the only way to judge a player's skill was to watch him play.
That is how it should be on WoT.


Edited by Rolling_Stoned, 10 January 2016 - 04:28 AM.


MacArnie #20 Posted 10 January 2016 - 05:13 AM

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View Post5cream, on 09 January 2016 - 09:30 PM, said:

I have a better way,

 

Take any random player with HIGH WR

1stWarlord

 

Then goto any stat site

 

http://www.noobmeter...20160109_132530

 

and look up the random with high WR for any period...

and then play same tanks... to guarantee easy route to  +WR

 

Looks like T-22 sr is the tank to pad in......

 

thanks for the info....

Will use it to focus out players for +WR + better WN8

 

A easier and more "for all" way of doing the same... find the wn8 table of expected stats. Find a tank with low wn8 expectation that U can play well, then play it till Ur fingers bleed and volia. WN8 padded way above Ur actual "skill"

 

btw, kinda summed up why I find wn8 useless, and way to easy to pad. But to OP, everyone (or most) around this forum know this, if U could find a way to explain this to the 95% of the playerbase that dont come here, then U might be on to something. But the majority of players never understand the "math" behind wn8, installing mods and looking at stats goes before looking at simple guids and own playstyle.

 

So U end up with 47-48& wr crap wn8 players, playing like they saw on a stream from a uni, diffrence is that uni streamer have 4+ skills on a pimped out tank with paint and shoot mostly prem. ammo. Dudes trying to do same with 75% crew no crew skill or paint, no prem ammo or basic consumables, and utter crapunfoldes.....then they come here and blame whatever, arty, prem. ammo, maps, teams, mm, take ur pick.

 

But OP....good fing job, U have prob. understood more then most players. Only good things will come from this (unless rng/mm-jesus have a bad day).






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