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How mandatory is vertical spabilizer on meduims and heavies?

vertical stabilizer equipment

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RudeBwoyUK #21 Posted 29 February 2016 - 04:27 PM

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View PostTidal_Force, on 29 February 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

 

Some HTs have very high view ranges, like T32 with 400 view range on T8. Not using Optics on that one is a crime.

 

Why is this a crime dude? I don't see how optics can be more useful that let's say vents on a heavy that I will play most of the time on the front line. Would you still say this is a crime if my crew has bia/recon/situational awareness +vents mounted on my tank? Wouldn't optics be overkill? Plus my T32 nowadays only plays in strongholds where we have dedicated scouts - should I still use optics?


Edited by RudeBwoyUK, 29 February 2016 - 04:29 PM.


Tidal_Force #22 Posted 29 February 2016 - 06:43 PM

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View PostRudeBwoyUK, on 29 February 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

 

Why is this a crime dude? I don't see how optics can be more useful that let's say vents on a heavy that I will play most of the time on the front line. Would you still say this is a crime if my crew has bia/recon/situational awareness +vents mounted on my tank? Wouldn't optics be overkill?

 

Being closest to the enemy AND having best view range means you are most likely to spot any TDs trying to support enemy, at least on maps where it still counts.

But if you go frontline with T32 you are actually playing it wrong. With that turret it's a ridge fighter, where massive view range allows it to perform small miracles against unprepared enemies.

 

View PostRudeBwoyUK, on 29 February 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

Plus my T32 nowadays only plays in strongholds where we have dedicated scouts - should I still use optics?

 

It never fails to surprise me how many FCs fail to properly utilise vision of HTs and guns of LTs.



Lycopersicon #23 Posted 29 February 2016 - 08:02 PM

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Mmh. I have been feeling the urge to replace vents with optics in T29. Still not sure if it is the optimal idea, but I guess it cannot be terribly bad, so I'll probably give it a try one day, when I feel like playing again.

Kuningas_Arthur #24 Posted 29 February 2016 - 08:42 PM

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I use vsta on anything that takes it, egld on most that don't. Some LTs and TDs are an exception, I run some of them with vents+binocs+camo net or rammer+binocs+camo net. Also most mid-tier tanks I have that I'm just grinding through I just slap a rammer or gld or whatever I have in my depot and then circulate a few toolboxes between them to save some pennies in demounting costs (and because having no repair skills is a pain in the [edited]and the toolbox at least helps a bit).

 

As far as vents vs optics I think of it this way: using vents is always a bonus, but it doesn't make your tank really excel at any single aspect you could exploit to your advantage. Now if your stock view range is crap then there's really no point in optics, everything is gonna spot you first anyway so you might as well go for vents for that few % better everything, but if you already have decent view range for your tier, then mounting optics will make your view range noticeably better meaning you are perhaps able to exploit your now significantly better view range to your and your team's advantage.



FaZe_ruhtdaB #25 Posted 29 February 2016 - 08:54 PM

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100% on meds, would take it on mobils heavies too (like 50b, e5, 113 etc). on slower heavies (like e100, maus) i wouldnt really take it, spall liner is better, especialy if youplay aggressively and dont camp

Slyspy #26 Posted 29 February 2016 - 09:05 PM

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Always use vstab where available. Almost always use rammer (if you fire faster than you can aim then maybe not, if you have anything more useful to carry, Which you probably don't). The third is the free slot to use what you like (usually some viewrange gear, sometimes vents, I wouldn't recomment EGLD).

TRXnMe #27 Posted 29 February 2016 - 09:38 PM

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My typical equipment load out is aggressive.

 

Vents to get get the plus whatever for ALL aspects of the tank and crew.

Rammer, because an empty gun is a useless gun.

EGLD / VSTAB depending on which the tank will take.

 

Some tanks get variants like binos / optics or camo net, or one tank even has the tool box loaded, but mostly I go with vents, rammer and either a EGLD or a VSTAB.

 

Enhanced view range equipment is usually on either my TD or my lights, they aren't in the game for fast fire, or have auto-loaders that make the rammer irrelevant, TD can make use of the better view range to place shots into the red guys hulls nice and carefully, lights are usually so close to the red guys that they have to work hard to miss the back end of the target they are parked behind :)



RudeBwoyUK #28 Posted 29 February 2016 - 11:37 PM

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View PostTidal_Force, on 29 February 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

 

Being closest to the enemy AND having best view range means you are most likely to spot any TDs trying to support enemy, at least on maps where it still counts.

But if you go frontline with T32 you are actually playing it wrong. With that turret it's a ridge fighter, where massive view range allows it to perform small miracles against unprepared enemies.

 

 

It never fails to surprise me how many FCs fail to properly utilise vision of HTs and guns of LTs.

 

good points

PanzerKFeldherrnhalle #29 Posted 01 March 2016 - 06:38 AM

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You should have optics on almost everything, heavy tanks included. The only exceptions are perhaps some Russian heavies with extremely poor base view range on which optics aren't really gonna do anything. 370 or 380 is just as mediocre as 350 so you might as well go for vents. But German and American heavies optics are fundamental unless you wanna feed campers.

chr1stos #30 Posted 01 March 2016 - 07:58 AM

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View PostPassoP, on 29 February 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

 

Here is my reasoning. I run optics, if the tank has 370-390 base vision range. That way I get close to 445m vision range and can fairly reliably spot enemy heavies and mediums anywhere,

 

What is it with the "magic" 445m number?

If vehicles had zero camo themselves or there were no bushes in the game then this number would make sense.

As things stand, if you are to spot a vehicle at 445m view range you will need a lot more than that, depending on the vehicle.

If you were to go for 460m view range many people believe the last 15m are wasted because you cannot spot past that.

Well, you will never spot anything at 445m if your view range is 445m.

Not even if it's 460m.

It's a psychological number more than anything else I guess, isn't it?

There's no limit to the view range that is useful to the player.

When you crest over the center hill in Prokhorovka how many of the people in the bushes do you spot?

There's half the enemy team camping within those 445m but you don't see any do you?

445m is nothing but 45m more than 400m and 45m less then 490m, it has no other meaning...

If you play a tank in tier 10 and you feel you want to throw your weight on other things than view range then the stock 400m or whatever number is sufficient.

If you want to have a view range advantage you go for broke, you maximize it,you stop at no number.

 



Laatikkomafia #31 Posted 01 March 2016 - 11:24 AM

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Playing without Vstab is like cutting finger nails with a chainsaw.

Tidal_Force #32 Posted 01 March 2016 - 11:45 AM

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View Postchr1stos, on 01 March 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

 

What is it with the "magic" 445m number?

If vehicles had zero camo themselves or there were no bushes in the game then this number would make sense.

As things stand, if you are to spot a vehicle at 445m view range you will need a lot more than that, depending on the vehicle.

If you were to go for 460m view range many people believe the last 15m are wasted because you cannot spot past that.

Well, you will never spot anything at 445m if your view range is 445m.

Not even if it's 460m.

It's a psychological number more than anything else I guess, isn't it?

There's no limit to the view range that is useful to the player.

When you crest over the center hill in Prokhorovka how many of the people in the bushes do you spot?

There's half the enemy team camping within those 445m but you don't see any do you?

445m is nothing but 45m more than 400m and 45m less then 490m, it has no other meaning...

If you play a tank in tier 10 and you feel you want to throw your weight on other things than view range then the stock 400m or whatever number is sufficient.

If you want to have a view range advantage you go for broke, you maximize it,you stop at no number.

 

 

445 is most important for XVM config.

As for not spotting anything at 445 with 445 view, not entirely true, WTF E100 in the open has so terrible camo that you may spot it :trollface:



chr1stos #33 Posted 01 March 2016 - 01:14 PM

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OK, let's take the tank with the most absolutely terrible camo in the game after it got nerfed , multiple times.

It IS a special case but no problem.

An E-50 with 400m view range will spot a WTF at 398m since it actually does get a tiny camo value.

If the WTF driver simply puts camo on his vehicle 398m becomes 384m.

If he uses a camo net it goes to 332m.

If the E-50 now has 445m view range it will spot a WTF sitting still with camo net at 368m

If that E-50 had maximized it's view range to 508.5m it would spot the wtf at 420m instead of 368.

etc.

445 has nothing to do with anything other than you know that beyond that range you should not try to spot anything.

But within that range if you could have even 600m view range you could put it to good use for breaking people's camo.

 

 

 

 



Neandramathal #34 Posted 01 March 2016 - 01:33 PM

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VStab all the way on 99% of tanks that can use it, it's simply THAT good. I find the Conqueror's gun to be better than the Tortoises despite being worse on paper, and the entire reason is because the Conqueror can use a stabiliser and the Tortoise can't, which means it suffers less from bloom and can be fully aimed quicker as a result.

 

20% less bloom is huge, it's only ineffective if you are sitting perfectly still and not turning your turret, which is rare. 



SirKnumskull #35 Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:11 PM

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View Postchr1stos, on 01 March 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

445 has nothing to do with anything other than you know that beyond that range you should not try to spot anything.

 

The point about having around 445m viewrange is that nobody can spot you and shoot at you without being seen himself or being in obvious bushes.

Cobra6 #36 Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:55 PM

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With mediums you spend a lot of time on the move and the VertStab shrinks the aiming circle when moving, This means you already have a higher chance of hitting when you move but also when you've just stopped.

The aiming when you stop takes just as long as it normally does but because the aiming circle starts out smaller you have a bigger chance to hit your mark.

 

Always mount vertstab on mediums, combined with a rammer and either coated optics or vents. Pretty much the same setup as on light tanks.

 

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Baldrickk #37 Posted 01 March 2016 - 04:10 PM

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View PostNeandramathal, on 01 March 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

VStab all the way on 99% of tanks that can use it, it's simply THAT good. I find the Conqueror's gun to be better than the Tortoises despite being worse on paper, and the entire reason is because the Conqueror can use a stabiliser and the Tortoise can't, which means it suffers less from bloom and can be fully aimed quicker as a result.

 

20% less bloom is huge, it's only ineffective if you are sitting perfectly still and not turning your turret, which is rare. 

Even then it still helps with dispersion when you shoot.

View PostCobra6, on 01 March 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

With mediums you spend a lot of time on the move and the VertStab shrinks the aiming circle when moving, This means you already have a higher chance of hitting when you move but also when you've just stopped.

The aiming when you stop takes just as long as it normally does but because the aiming circle starts out smaller you have a bigger chance to hit your mark.

 

Always mount vertstab on mediums, combined with a rammer and either coated optics or vents. Pretty much the same setup as on light tanks.

 

Cobra 6

Actually, as aim-time is dependant on the size of the reticule, (listed time is time taken to shrink to 1/3 of the size) it aims faster too!

 


Edited by Baldrickk, 01 March 2016 - 04:30 PM.


gpalsson #38 Posted 01 March 2016 - 04:13 PM

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Q:
How mandatory is vertical spabilizer on meduims and heavies?

A:
Very

Hedgehog1963 #39 Posted 01 March 2016 - 06:17 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 29 February 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

So a tank with Vert stab will aim faster than a tank without, possible by 0.5 to 0.9 of a second if both are stationery and facing one another, thus allowing the Vert Stab equipped tank to shot first. If both tanks are moving, or moving their turrets, then the advantage to the tank with vert stab is even larger when compared to the tank without.

 

Then add a 100% BIA crew and vents  and of course a rammer and you have a tank which can only be improved by a food consumable.


Edited by Erinaceus_europaeus, 01 March 2016 - 06:17 PM.


hajoittaja #40 Posted 01 March 2016 - 07:28 PM

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I have never mounted vstab on any other tank than T49 and BC25t, so it's not mandatory.





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