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Extra History: The Battle of Kursk (part 4) - Prokhorovka


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Community #1 Posted 28 March 2016 - 03:33 PM

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We are back with the final part of Extra History’s Battle of Kursk series.

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TheRealTwist #2 Posted 28 March 2016 - 05:02 PM

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Waffen SS "War-crimanals and butchers".....

NO with that you lost any right to call this an objective documentation.

 

I call the russian soldiers rapers, robbers and murderers of civilians with the very same "objective" right. Sorry...not with the same but by the word of witnesses I heard myself.

 

 

 



Iron_Snake #3 Posted 28 March 2016 - 05:32 PM

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Hitler was a good gambler but as any gambler...he went to far and lost...

Bihlen #4 Posted 28 March 2016 - 09:00 PM

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I am really enjoying these history series. Would like to see more of them.  :)

 

 

Also... burying your tank underground, now that is a new level of camping.


Edited by Bihlen, 28 March 2016 - 09:01 PM.


wsatnutter #5 Posted 28 March 2016 - 09:26 PM

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View PostTheRealTwist, on 28 March 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

Waffen SS "War-crimanals and butchers".....

NO with that you lost any right to call this an objective documentation.

 

I call the russian soldiers rapers, robbers and murderers of civilians with the very same "objective" right. Sorry...not with the same but by the word of witnesses I heard myself.

 

 

 

 

get over it war is war you do what is needed

Velvet_Underground #6 Posted 28 March 2016 - 11:20 PM

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View PostTheRealTwist, on 28 March 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

Waffen SS "War-crimanals and butchers".....

NO with that you lost any right to call this an objective documentation.

 

I call the russian soldiers rapers, robbers and murderers of civilians with the very same "objective" right. Sorry...not with the same but by the word of witnesses I heard myself.

 

 

 

Wow, a defender of the Waffen-SS? Butthurt much:sceptic:

Little hint for you:

Spoiler

 

 

 



VSVOD #7 Posted 29 March 2016 - 12:04 AM

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[edited]
 

Edited by BigBadVuk, 29 March 2016 - 09:20 AM.
This post has been edited by a member of the Moderation Team, due to inappropriate content.


PricelessPlayingPancake #8 Posted 29 March 2016 - 06:01 AM

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[edited]

Edited by BigBadVuk, 29 March 2016 - 09:21 AM.
This post has been edited by a member of the Moderation Team, due to inappropriate content.


TheRealTwist #9 Posted 29 March 2016 - 08:45 AM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 28 March 2016 - 11:20 PM, said:

Wow, a defender of the Waffen-SS? Butthurt much:sceptic:

 

Its like calling EVERY russian Soldier a rapist. I know they did it in Austria west of Vienna when they came, I know they took valuable things (especially wristwatches) by gunpoint from civilians, I know they shot young men if they wore uniforms or not, they searched houses and harassed civilians.

 

In reality they where as much criminals as the Waffen SS...and every other soldier in a campaign and far away from home. I just cant stand it if EVERY Soldier is called a war criminal. But yes the history is written by the winners....

And never forget: in War times and order is an order...and ignoring one is treason and punished swiftly and mostly by death.....so ask youselfe if you are given a weapon and ordered to use them on "enemys" who ever they are would you resist? It came down to this....you either fought for them or you got killed by them....that simple.

 


Edited by TheRealTwist, 29 March 2016 - 09:04 AM.


Velvet_Underground #10 Posted 29 March 2016 - 11:33 AM

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View PostTheRealTwist, on 29 March 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

 

Its like calling EVERY russian Soldier a rapist. I know they did it in Austria west of Vienna when they came, I know they took valuable things (especially wristwatches) by gunpoint from civilians, I know they shot young men if they wore uniforms or not, they searched houses and harassed civilians.

 

Did the russian soldiers take part in a genocide, mass executions (of civilians aswell), executions of war prisoners, guarding concentration camps, the commissar order etc?

 

View PostTheRealTwist, on 29 March 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

In reality they where as much criminals as the Waffen SS...and every other soldier in a campaign and far away from home. I just cant stand it if EVERY Soldier is called a war criminal. But yes the history is written by the winners....

And never forget: in War times and order is an order...and ignoring one is treason and punished swiftly and mostly by death.....so ask youselfe if you are given a weapon and ordered to use them on "enemys" who ever they are would you resist? It came down to this....you either fought for them or you got killed by them....that simple.

 

That's just beyond stupid:facepalm:

 



Akathis #11 Posted 29 March 2016 - 12:10 PM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 29 March 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

Did the russian soldiers take part in a genocide, mass executions (of civilians aswell), executions of war prisoners, guarding concentration camps, the commissar order etc?

 

That's just beyond stupid:facepalm:

 

 

Yes. At least one war crime is widely recognised as such: KATYN

 

Oh, dont forget about ethnic cleansing of prussian territories.

Oh, dont forget about cossack genocide.

Oh, dont forget about massive raping in Germany.

Oh, dont forget what they did to the german prisoners after the war.

 

Just a little bit of history.


Edited by Akathis, 29 March 2016 - 12:14 PM.


TheRealTwist #12 Posted 29 March 2016 - 12:28 PM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 29 March 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

Did the russian soldiers take part in a genocide, mass executions (of civilians aswell), executions of war prisoners, guarding concentration camps, the commissar order etc?

 

 

Yes, yes, yes, yes it depends on who you ask. And for the last question the so called "commissar order" you got the "order" part....right?

genocide:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#Russian_Empire

and keep reading...

mass Executions & concentartions camps (called "gulags" ) you may quess who guarded them....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes#Soviet_Union

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

Executions of war Prisoners:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/HnetPrisoners1.html

 

Warcrimes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

 

now go back and learn some history and read both sides.....it was a pleasure to correct your point of view.


Edited by TheRealTwist, 29 March 2016 - 12:46 PM.


Velvet_Underground #13 Posted 29 March 2016 - 12:46 PM

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View PostAkathis, on 29 March 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

 

Yes. At least one war crime is widely recognised as such: KATYN

 

Oh, dont forget about ethnic cleansing of prussian territories.

Oh, dont forget about cossack genocide.

Oh, dont forget about massive raping in Germany.

Oh, dont forget what they did to the german prisoners after the war.

 

Just a little bit of history.

 

Would you mind reading my posts again before commenting?

Anyway, let's see: "The Katyn massacre (Polish: zbrodnia katyńska, mord katyński, "Katyń crime"; Russian: Катынский расстрел Katynskij ra'sstrel, "Katyn shooting") was a series of mass executions of Polish nationals carried out by the People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs (NKVD), the Soviet secret police, in April and May 1940." (Wikipedia) Do you get what I want to say? By the way, there was another, similar named massacre 3 years later where a village was destroyed and it's inhabitants were burned or shot by a battalion of the Waffen SS and nationalist collaborators from the ukrain.

Regarding the rest of your points: Would you mind being more specific about those things (e.g. drop some names, places etc) so that I may read about it without spending hours?  That would be nice.

 

 

 

EDIT: Well, got ninja'd. That's what you get for not sending your comment for half an hour...

 

 


Edited by Velvet_Underground, 29 March 2016 - 12:48 PM.


TheRealTwist #14 Posted 29 March 2016 - 12:50 PM

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And yes....by the report of a times witness all that was needed to become a soldier in the Waffen SS was to be male, 16 years of age of more than average body size and fair haired to be force drafted and sent to a Waffen SS regiment.....it was not opt-in  and there was no opt-out option which left you alive. Welcome to reality kiddy.

 

Edit: They dropped the size and hair color requirement even some time later in the war......

 


Edited by TheRealTwist, 29 March 2016 - 12:53 PM.


TheRealTwist #15 Posted 29 March 2016 - 01:02 PM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 29 March 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

 

People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs (NKVD), the Soviet secret police,

 

So a "Political Commissar" did this....and you still wonder why the germans got ordered to execute them on sight? :trollface:

They were no soldiers....so why treat them as such?

Beaten by your own logic....and I still find it disgusting just that you know it.

 

 


Edited by TheRealTwist, 29 March 2016 - 01:04 PM.


Velvet_Underground #16 Posted 29 March 2016 - 01:17 PM

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View PostTheRealTwist, on 29 March 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

 

So a "Political Commissar" did this....and you still wonder why the germans got ordered to execute them on sight? :trollface:

They were no soldiers....so why treat them as such?

Beaten by your own logic....and I still find it disgusting just that you know it.

 

 

At this point I wont respond to you anymore, you just ain't worth it.


Edited by Velvet_Underground, 29 March 2016 - 01:18 PM.


b0d #17 Posted 29 March 2016 - 01:19 PM

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View PostTheRealTwist, on 28 March 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

Waffen SS "War-crimanals and butchers".....

NO with that you lost any right to call this an objective documentation.

 

I call the russian soldiers rapers, robbers and murderers of civilians with the very same "objective" right. Sorry...not with the same but by the word of witnesses I heard myself.

 

 

 

 

War is war my friend, every side committed atrocities.  When violence is used to settle a dispute, a crime against humanity is committed.

No point over-reacting, those SS dudes shot a load of British POW's. 

However they were not all ideaological fanatics, many were professional soldiers with strong codes of ethical conduct (if there is such a thing for a soldier).



b0d #18 Posted 29 March 2016 - 01:24 PM

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View PostIron_Snake, on 28 March 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Hitler was a good gambler but as any gambler...he went to far and lost...

 

Interestingly Hitler gambled on submarines when he should of built aircraft carriers.  Big mistake. 

TheRealTwist #19 Posted 29 March 2016 - 02:33 PM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 29 March 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

At this point I wont respond to you anymore, you just ain't worth it.

 

Same to you and may you live in interesting times.

 

BTW Nice to see it time and again what happens if someone looses an argument.

 


Edited by TheRealTwist, 29 March 2016 - 02:34 PM.


TheRealTwist #20 Posted 29 March 2016 - 02:43 PM

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View Postb0d, on 29 March 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

 

War is war my friend, every side committed atrocities.  When violence is used to settle a dispute, a crime against humanity is committed.

No point over-reacting, those SS dudes shot a load of British POW's. 

However they were not all ideaological fanatics, many were professional soldiers with strong codes of ethical conduct (if there is such a thing for a soldier).

 

I agree with you but I have to inform you that the Fighting-SS units (Waffen-SS) where never the same as the Camp guard-SS (SS-Wachverbände). Nobody fighting in Kursk executed prisoners in camps.

Its like comparing a Texas milita with a US Navi Seal....

 

 

 






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