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12.09.1939


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beatles01 #41 Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:24 PM

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View PostDr_Nooooo, on 12 September 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

What? google translator translates it as follows : "Hey goat ..... you that I did not notice?? Russia nagibator"
I tell you that the Russians in this game .......
I download and pass on your server

Warenwolf #42 Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:29 PM

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View PostDr_Nooooo, on 12 September 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

The main source is Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof - 1939 - Der Krieg, der viele Väter hatte . Der lange Anlauf zum Zweiten Weltkrieg, about the things you asked especially pages 370-372. (Maybe there is an english version of the book, i don't know, however you can easily find a .pdf of it if you use google)



At least i disagree with the most common view of the events in 1939 and the years prior.

As I suspected. I have no further interest in this discussion.

beatles01 #43 Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:32 PM

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А у вас админы есть??

Dr_Nooooo #44 Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:33 PM

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View PostWarenwolf, on 12 September 2011 - 07:29 PM, said:

As I suspected. I have no further interest in this discussion.

So why are you in a forum? In any (political-) talkround with real people, when you say "i have no interest to go into discussion about this or that" you are kindly asked to leave  :)

ammarmar #45 Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:27 PM

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View PostDr_Nooooo, on 12 September 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

So why are you in a forum? In any (political-) talkround with real people, when you say "i have no interest to go into discussion about this or that" you are kindly asked to leave  :)

Stop making a fool of yourself. The author you cited is a known revisionist and nobody in the REAL world takes him seriously. Even German newspapers call his works as “myth-creating” and “abstruse”. You could as well cite Erich von Daeniken in a discussion about ancient Egypt.

Dr_Nooooo #46 Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:29 PM

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The passage i used to quote is in no way "abstruse" or anything, and the timeline i posted is full with known facts, or do you deny those?

szym #47 Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:54 AM

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View PostDr_Nooooo, on 12 September 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

The main source is Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof - 1939 - Der Krieg, der viele Väter hatte . Der lange Anlauf zum Zweiten Weltkrieg, about the things you asked especially pages 370-372. (Maybe there is an english version of the book, i don't know, however you can easily find a .pdf of it if you use google)

“1939 - Der Krieg, der viele Väter hatte” (The War which had many Fathers)

In his book “Der Krieg, der viele Väter hatte”, he argues that Adolf Hitler had not wanted to risk war right until September 1939. Thus, Schultze-Rhonhof especially blames Poland for the outbreak of World War II as a result the rejection of German willingness of negotiations.

German willingness of negotiations = ???????????? They never wanted to negatiate !!! They want to attack, and they did.

People what are you talking about, do you want to justify Hitler, who slaughter almost half a Europe ????????

1147 #48 Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:39 AM

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You can't prove each other anything. In the USSR at the time of Lenin and Georgian Stalin was:
4 308 487 persons are arrested
From them 835 194 Soviet people are killed. On political grounds.
6 500 000 persons are deported.
Has starved to death by different estimations from 4 to 10 million persons.
In war of 1941-45 27 000 000 persons not including wounded and invalids were lost. Also it is all for 36 years. Even now in Russia there are those who support Stalin, Lenin and Hitler.

Qwicol #49 Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:35 AM

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@Dr_Nooooo:
Let's look what Wikipedia says about your Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof and his book:

"In his book “Der Krieg, der viele Väter hatte”, he argues that Adolf Hitler had not wanted to risk war right until September 1939. Thus, Schultze-Rhonhof especially blames Poland for the outbreak of World War II as a result the rejection of German willingness of negotiations. Besides, also Great Britain, France, the United States and the Soviet Union had taken their part in the outbreak of the war because they had driven Poland into the war.

Though admitting he did not write a scientific book Schultze-Rhonhof accuses German historians of not analysing the origins of World War II correctly. Official publications as the Documents on German Foreign Policy had been manipulated, and even today German academic history and educational publishers were forced to maintain Germany’s sole responsibility for the outbreak of the war. Well-known sources revealing Hitler’s will to war (for instance the Halder War Diary) are ignored or doubted. Schultze-Rhonhof’s book therefore stands in a long tradition of revisionist literature on the origins of Wold War II though it never reaches the same level of sophistication as A.J.P. Taylor’s The Origins of the Second World War.

The bibliography includes 178 titles, and is dominated by revisionist and extreme right authors such as David L. Hoggan, Paul Rassinier and Erich Kern or German right-wing conservatives. Results of historical research are not or barely mentioned and are not considered by Schultze-Rhonhof. Instead, he relies on already printed documents on contemporary foreign policy."

I can overthrow everything he wrote in a few words: Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact.

Better leave extreme right writers and read ie.:
Davies, Norman (2008). No Simple Victory: World War II in Europe, 1939–1945. Penguin Group. ISBN 0143114093

Hans_terrier #50 Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:36 AM

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XD, give me a laugh. When Franco made ​​the coup in Spain with the help of Hitler and Mussolini, you like the rest of the democracies of Europe you became blind.without doing anything, just helped the USSR to the republic. :(:( Both my grandfathers fought in it. One column cnt and the other fascist.

_Hegemon_ #51 Posted 13 September 2011 - 11:08 AM

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History - the best of irony

--------------------------------

I have another example from Polish History..

In 30.09.1939 due to the Highest Naval and Army Command order - Operation "PEKIN" - 3 Polish destroyers => ORP "Burza" (Thunderstorm) , ORP "Błyskawica" (Lightning), ORP "Grom" (Thunder) (Those last two destroyers - where the fastest ships in whole Blatic Sea area at this time ) took to the Great Brittain course from Gdynia seaport..

Almost in the same time - 30.08.1939 - a German Schleswig-Holstein battleship with PEACFULL and FIRENDLY visit arrived at Gdańsk (Danzig) - 6-7 sea miles from Gdynia..

As You know - In 1.09.1939 -  this "peacfully visitating" and "friendly" ship - at 4.45am - opened fire with all his guns -  to the the Polish small fortress at Westerplatte..

II World War started...

---

After the end of war - in 1945 - the ORP "Błyskawica" back from Great Brittan to Poland - but German Schleswig-Holstein battleship ..

was still there..

He was sunk by British bombers in 18 December 1944 on shallow waters - almost 6 sea miles (between Gdynia and Gdańsk [Danzig]) from place where he started the War..

U can imagine faces of the polish destroyer crew - when they saw a wreck of this "loving friendship" ship - laying, at the gates of polish Gdynia seaport..

Qwicol #52 Posted 13 September 2011 - 11:42 AM

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@ Hegemon - wrong:
The ship was moved to Gotenhafen to be used as an anti-aircraft ship. However, Schleswig-Holstein was hit three times by RAF bombers there on 18 December 1944, and although she was sunk in shallow water, her weapons could still be used. After a fire permanently disabled the ship, her crew was sent ashore to assist in the defense of Marienburg.

Following the Soviet capture of Marienburg, the remaining crew scuttled the ship. After the end of the war, the ship was raised between 1945–1946 by the Soviet Navy and transferred to Kronstadt. Here she was briefly used as a training hulk, possibly under the name Borodino. The ship was eventually broken up in Tallinn. Her bell now resides in the Military History Museum of the Bundeswehr in Dresden.

Taken from wikipedia.

_Hegemon_ #53 Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:01 PM

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View PostQwicol, on 13 September 2011 - 11:42 AM, said:

@ Hegemon - wrong:
The ship was moved to Gotenhafen to be used as an anti-aircraft ship. However, Schleswig-Holstein was hit three times by RAF bombers there on 18 December 1944, and although she was sunk in shallow water, her weapons could still be used. After a fire permanently disabled the ship, her crew was sent ashore to assist in the defense of Marienburg.

Following the Soviet capture of Marienburg, the remaining crew scuttled the ship. After the end of the war, the ship was raised between 1945–1946 by the Soviet Navy and transferred to Kronstadt. Here she was briefly used as a training hulk, possibly under the name Borodino. The ship was eventually broken up in Tallinn. Her bell now resides in the Military History Museum of the Bundeswehr in Dresden.

Taken from wikipedia.

So what was wrong in my post?? Have I changed the historical facts?

Qwicol #54 Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:21 PM

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Well, Soviet Navy transferred it to Kronstadt between '45 and '46 and ORP Błyskawica[Lightning] was back home on 4th of July 1947. by the way, ORP Błyskawica is one of the oldest preserved destroyer in the world.




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