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Find the video here, and find Tankfriend's video here!

This test was conducted by two loyal World of Tanks players (Tankfriend and The_Dutch_Devil (me )) who believe that there is more between a hit and a miss. A so called 'ghost' shell, the way we used to prove the following 'theory' was the following:

We lined up our tanks in a training battle, he in an E-50 I in my Pz IV equipped with the 75 Kwk 45 L/70. Earlier battles showed us that the commander hatch on the E-50 has the highest turnout of said 'ghost' shells.

In the earlier tests we already proved that some shots are recorded as a hit by the damage system (a voice shouting critical hit or something like that and the marker above the tank flashes white) but there is no HP damage nor is there any module damage.

After proving that we noticed that there still was one potential flaw, what if I hit and damaged a subsystem but not enough to get it damaged? The game records it as a hit, I would've gotten xp and credits were this a normal battle but I wouldn't get any confirmation.

So now we needed to prove that you can shoot a tank, get the confirmation that you penetrated and damaged the enemy on one way or another. Where the popular story is that a module absorbed all the damage, "whilst actually you never damaged and you will also not get any XP or credits for that shot, since this is a training battle you will of course never get any XP or credits. But would this have been a random battle I would've not received any XP or credits whilst the game told me otherwise.

We did that by starting a training battle, I fired a shot and if the shot we a regular shot (so a bounce or a damaging shot) we stopped. But at the third game we got lucky and the first one was a 'ghost' shell, we also stopped but this time we checked the results report. And it told me, the Panzer IV driver, that I fired one shot (true) that one shot was a hit (true) but the result report told me that I neither damaged nor killed any tank, but WoTs just told me that I hit and penetrated his tank. Whilst dealing damage in the process. What proves that there is more than a miss, bounce or damaging hit. There now is a non-damaging-hit.

If you believe that there still is something missing from this test don't be afraid to post here or let us know in the YT vid. Tankfriend also recorded the test, so if needed he can also upload his part.

Are you serious?
"Where the popular story is that a module absorbed all the damage, whilst actually you never damaged and you will also not get any XP or credits for that shot."
In training battles you don't get credits and exp.

Ionut, on 24 September 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

I know that, and thanks for pointing that out so I can word differently. Something along the lines of: "whilst actually you never damaged and you will also not get any XP or credits for that shot, since this is a training battle you will of course never get any XP or credits. But would this have been a random battle I would've not received any XP or credits whilst the game told me otherwise."

Very nice work. And finally nice and clean recorded!

Saw no ghost shell in the video. Saw the shell fly, saw the impact marks. It even said "that one went straight through" indicating a zero damage hit. So what did I miss?

what your gunners says is random has nothing to do with how good or bad your shoot was

ghost shells for me are shelle i shoot but my gun dont shoots so i can shoot again without reloding or when you shoot but target disapears again and you make no damage iven if you hit were the target was before the spotting system made the enemy tank again invisible because he stoped moving like he whould switched on a Klingon Cloking devise

Vektro, on 24 September 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Thanks

Snib, on 24 September 2011 - 11:10 PM, said:

What you probably missed is that I shot, hit and penetrated the E-50 but that I inflicted no damage whatsoever, which indicates that there is a bug somewhere down the road. And I might have not used the right term to describe this phenomena I'm sorry for that. And because of that I defined the term of 'ghost' shell for this video in the description to make it a little bit easier to read.

SchumiGSG9, on 24 September 2011 - 11:11 PM, said:

I know that what the crew says pretty much random, but there is one vital difference and that is the difference between a penetrating hit and a non-penetrating hit. And you can clearly hear the crew say: "that one went right through" Indicating I penetrated his armor.

The first type of 'ghost' shell you describe is not a ghost shell at all. It is lag, for some strange reason when you're lagging (and you can check your ping in the top left corner) and you shoot the gun will do a firing animation but the server will not receive the signal that you fire (or it will receive the signal but it'll arrive with a delay). That's why I think that a shot only counts if the tank starts reloading, which in your case is not happening so the client might have recorded that you fired but the server still has to receive that signal.

And the second type of 'ghost' shell is the fault of the camouflage system, what probably happens is that or the tank keeps on moving so you just miss him. Or you can't aim for the weakspot because you don't know where he is precisely so you just bounce. ;(

I always thought that what people call ghost shells are shells that they do not see in flight because of smoke effects or lag. What you describe here are intended game mechanics as far as I'm aware. Critical damage or crew damage does never appear on the end of battle screen as tank damage for all I know.

I got a screenshots of an admin saying that they would only believe ghostshots after someone made a clear video and that the video's already made were not clear and other bullshit and that no one could make a clear video. Il search the screenshots and then I hope the admin who was denying ghost shots are fake can reply on this.

Snib, on 24 September 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

I of course read of cases where people said to suffer from ghost shots but where it actually was lag, and I always thought that the term 'ghost shells' was also used to describe shells that penetrate and do not deal any damage.

That second part of your post is very vital, it means that Tankfriend and me will have to do a second test in which we'll have to try to only damage a module and not deal any real damage (Hit point damage) and see if that shows up on the after battle results. Thanks for the tip!

KrieGsgotT, on 24 September 2011 - 11:40 PM, said:

If you could dig up that screenshot and maybe any posts that would be fantastic!

The_Dutch_Devil, on 24 September 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

Just shoot the tracks, it's easiest, then have the attacking tank exit. If I'm right the end of battle screen will show no damaging hit and if I recall correctly he will not even get a repair bill.

KrieGsgotT, on 24 September 2011 - 11:40 PM, said:

Nobody ever denied shots like this happen. What nobody has been able to show are shots that go though the body of a tank and impact behind it, or are fired (ammo count decreases) but disappear which are what are usually refered to as ghost shells.

This is just a case of a shot doing module damage (observation device) but not enough to knock out the module (i.e. make it yellow). It's not shown on the scoreboard but as far as I know you still get XP for it. If you consult the XP guide thread you'll see there are quite a few things that give you XP but don't get shown on our current scoreboard (the biggest is probably lighting up enemies while allies that can't spot those enemies themselves shoot them). As the roadmap says expanded post-battle statistics that do list things like this are coming, the current estimate is Q1 2012.

EDIT: One bug your video does show (at 1:13) is the hole in the cupola behind the observation device that shouldn't be there.

EndlessWaves, on 25 September 2011 - 12:05 AM, said:

About the first one: I never heard of that being a bug and so far have never experienced it. This also applies for the second type of ghost shells.

EndlessWaves, on 25 September 2011 - 12:05 AM, said:

Thanks so much for clearing this up, since this is probably what's happening on the background. Thanks a lot for pointing this out, now I'll feel a little less useless when I get these almost damaging shots. <3

EndlessWaves, on 25 September 2011 - 12:05 AM, said:

Well then this video was good for something apparently.

EndlessWaves, on 25 September 2011 - 12:05 AM, said:

Actually, there was video of an t29 shooting an spgs side and you could see the shell hit in the back. People said it's not a ghost thought, which is something i still don't understand. There's just no other possibility for it unless the shell did an spg shell arc, which would be even more ridiculous.

Nice topic and thumbs up for the test. Actually we face too much "critical" hits with no damage made. I just don't get the crew, many times they speak when you do nothing, and sometimes when you nail someone they are silent.

necrodeath, on 25 September 2011 - 12:33 AM, said:

Couldn't it have been a S-51, where the shell barely missed the tank and which made it look like as if the shell passed right through?

NerminCurbrigen, on 25 September 2011 - 12:46 AM, said:

Yes, I think the damage notification system needs an overhaul. With things like the marker flashing green for only module damage but not enough to actually damage a module, yellow for only damaging a module and etc.

The_Dutch_Devil, on 25 September 2011 - 09:11 AM, said:

Even with reworked damage notification the issue will be still around and kicking.

Modules (and crew??) cant work as force field as they do now,no matter what!Especially in cases when superior gun hit way inferior target.

Quote

By the way we may pretty well drop this crap as long as so called "saving throw" exist.Its way more important then HP of any module.Once more the dice roll is decisive factor and if the dice roll vent fine even T1 tank radio can absorb damage from T10.

I understand that the RNG is kinda necessary for WoT to run.However it shouldnt have such obvious shortcomings and interfere with other stuff.
Hit ratio statistic purpose (if its matter for anyone) for example is basicly defeated by this,but lets not worry,right?Im one of the people who dont give a damn,but what kind of developer will tolerate half-working feature in his game and why should he be payed for it...
"As long as they get new maps and two premium tanks per patch everything is fine" policy kinda suck

EndlessWaves, on 25 September 2011 - 12:05 AM, said:

Don't think that's a bug. Shells can get deflected after penetration, so that shell path is not impossible. In addition, my understanding is that the way the hit decals spread from the initial point of impact is not exact, anyway, because of server and client working with slightly different hit-boxes and the decals being client side only.

WillWeedzor, on 25 September 2011 - 10:35 AM, said:

Well that depends, firing a shot with the 75 L/70 at a tier 9 could very well deal only module damage with the current system. But an E-75 should never deal only module damage, so  only module damage should also deal 50% of the damage done to the hit points pool or something like that. But I feel that a reworked damage notification system would help a lot.

Here is the other side of that test video, by the way. Not much to see here, other than that the game correctly registered the hit by The_Dutch_Devil, but nothing else - no critical damage and no hitpoint loss.