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Improved Visibility Mechanics

9.16

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MrConway #1 Posted 02 October 2016 - 02:21 PM

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Please leave any feedback on the improved visibility mechanics in update 9.16 here.



Silverwarg #2 Posted 05 October 2016 - 11:35 AM

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"Improved", as in "Good luck moving between spotting positions."

Oh, was that bush 0.5 cm too far away from that other bush and didn't quite cover your track? Hope you didn't plan on playing this tank anymore this match.

 Camping is love, camping is life. <3

Welcome to first to shoot = first to die.



ninja0166 #3 Posted 05 October 2016 - 02:03 PM

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This is essentially a nerf to light tanks is there anything planned to help this already weak class?

TinCanCrusher #4 Posted 05 October 2016 - 02:39 PM

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View Postninja0166, on 05 October 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

This is essentially a nerf to light tanks is there anything planned to help this already weak class?

 

View PostSilverwarg, on 05 October 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

"Improved", as in "Good luck moving between spotting positions."

 Camping is love, camping is life. <3

 

Who could have guessed. The Village People got here first. Whining and complaining.

Me, I love it. Great change to one of the biggest pet peeve's in the game. Good job WG!



Xenonraz #5 Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:26 PM

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Maybe think about decreasing the delay of sixth sense popping up, since you also get spotted earlier now. Passive spotting has become harder since you can get shot a lot earlier before you even know you got spotted due to the decreased spotting delay.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it's good the delay is fixed, but the sixth sense is too slow now imo.



smoothpop1 #6 Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:37 PM

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View PostThe_Unseen75, on 05 October 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

Maybe think about decreasing the delay of sixth sense popping up, since you also get spotted earlier now. Passive spotting has become harder since you can get shot a lot earlier before you even know you got spotted due to the decreased spotting delay.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it's good the delay is fixed, but the sixth sense is too slow now imo.

 

i second this. i have been playing my amx 1390 so far and most times i die i am killed before 6th sense has fired, if wg want LT players to sit on 3rd line as support then dont bother updating the 6th sense but if you want me to put my neck out i need to know when im in danger before im taking those hits

Dragoontrooper_1 #7 Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:38 PM

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Me, i don't like them, can you switch off the directions and big square boxes that ping out at you when you are hit, such a distraction.

 



TheGamingLion #8 Posted 05 October 2016 - 05:04 PM

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I suspected a bug with bushes and their camo values lowering drastically upon moving the tank in or behind them, went to test it. Whole thing:

 

Tank 1: Ru 251, 473m viewrange, 31.1% camo (BiA, 3 crew members on 100% camo skill, 1 member on ~70%, does not have camo paintjob).

Tank 2: WZ-132, 465m viewrange, 33.9% camo (BiA, 100% camo skill on all 4 crew members, has camo paintjob).

 

Note that a light tank has the same camo value when moving and being stationary. So it should not matter if the tank moves when concealed.

 

Tank 1 spots Tank 2 on 328m if no bushes are in play.

Tank 2 spots Tank 1 on 334m if no bushes are in play.

 

Tank 2 spots Tank 1 on 127m if Tank 2 moves towards a stationary Tank 1 concealed by a bush that is transparent to Tank 1.

Tank 2 spots Tank 1 on 321m if Tank 1 is concealed by a bush that is transparent to Tank 1, with Tank 1 moving barely at all (literally pressing W/A/S/D for 0.1s).

Tank 2 does not spot Tank 1 on 321m (or way less, didn't write down numbers) if Tank 1 is concealed by a bush that is not transparent to Tank 1, and moves a little.

 

This was tested on different maps with different bushes. The described bug also seemed to apply to medium tanks, so it is not a LT-only thing. Different light tanks were also used, so it is not limited to specific tanks either.

It seems like since 9.16, bushes only give a tiny bit of the camo they used to give to a moving tank behind/in it, if the bush is "transparent" to the tank.

 

Both replays: http://wotreplays.eu/site/3003904#steppes-slartibartfart-sp_hpanzer_ru_251 http://wotreplays.com/site/3003890#steppes-thegaminglion-wz-132

 

Here something similar in video form: https://youtu.be/znmLfYKpKt0?t=3m30s This is from a different testing game than described above though, but still displays the issue well. The Ru 251 is stationary and unspotted, with a wide enough layer of bush in front of it to prevent any spotting other than through the bush itself. As the tank moves even just a tiny bit, it gets spotted immediately although the camo value the bush gives the tank should not change.

If you skip to 4:10, you can see that it requires the spotting WZ-132 to move 170m (from 300m to 130m) closer in order for the stationary Ru 251 to be spotted.

 

Also tried to recreate the situation on http://www.wotinfo.net/de/camo-calculator with this result: http://i.imgur.com/KbZ9Nhx.png - the resulting numbers differ slightly from what I perceived, but are almost identical.

Though, once one adds the bush density, it doesn't parse anymore.

 

In general it would also make sense to decrease the Sixth Sense delay by a second, since on average it probably takes about 1s less to get spotted, considering all distances.

 

Anyway, I hope what I tried to describe is clear enough and gets fixed/clarified soon.


Edited by TheGamingLion, 06 October 2016 - 11:31 AM.


captain_white_tiger #9 Posted 05 October 2016 - 10:32 PM

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Visibility improvements are good. But it busted out how broken are bushes. Previously there were broken bushes only on Pilzen map (which is why I very much dislike it). Now bushes are broken on all maps. Bushes are crying for fix!!!

StoopidOne #10 Posted 05 October 2016 - 10:39 PM

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can you [edited]fix something without [edited]up other stuff? Remove bushes all together from the maps, it's not like you can hide behind them anymore.

Yamozo #11 Posted 05 October 2016 - 10:59 PM

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First off, great update!

Sadly, TheGamingLion's post is exactly what I've been experiencing ingame today. I play a lot of lights and am getting spotted in bushes that are normally completely safe almost upto the proxy-spot range.

Hope it gets fixed soon.



ThinderChief #12 Posted 06 October 2016 - 01:39 AM

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View PostYamozo, on 05 October 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

First off, great update!

Sadly, TheGamingLion's post is exactly what I've been experiencing ingame today. I play a lot of lights and am getting spotted in bushes that are normally completely safe almost upto the proxy-spot range.

Hope it gets fixed soon.

 

Not only that but the opposite seems not to be true, a SU-122 can bush and not loose its invisibility when firing at you when you try to spot, so what's the point trying.

The whole thing is unbalanced in favour of campers too...



Turbo_Troll_Puci_Kurats #13 Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:41 AM

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Played couple of battles after patch...

Is this a joke or all my LTS (5 perks etc) and paper tanks lost their camo??? All bushes inactive???

It made all LT class almost useless now. I don't even see 6th sense and I am destroyed. The most demanding class (lt, batchats) which had its camo feature as the most important advantage now is useless in my opinion. 

 

Seems like a huge nerf not "changed spotting mechanism". Great job....

 

Played also IX tier batchat...well....i felt like driving a maus. Absolutely different and worse experience then before. 


Edited by turbo_zaix, 06 October 2016 - 02:44 AM.


Turbo_Troll_Puci_Kurats #14 Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:47 AM

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View PostYamozo, on 05 October 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

First off, great update!

Sadly, TheGamingLion's post is exactly what I've been experiencing ingame today. I play a lot of lights and am getting spotted in bushes that are normally completely safe almost upto the proxy-spot range.

Hope it gets fixed soon.

 

yep, same, bad experience.

ThinderChief #15 Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:34 AM

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View Postturbo_zaix, on 06 October 2016 - 02:47 AM, said:

 

yep, same, bad experience.

 

It's FAR from being an improvement from my PoV, it will push people to camp more and kill its dynamics, no less.

I don't play TDs or heavies, only scouts and mediums and like city/corridor maps have taken the fast tanks advantage from them, this takes the scout and medium's, you can't flank without being pinned down real fast, the movement of the game suffers a lot.


Edited by ThinderChief, 06 October 2016 - 03:36 AM.


Slartibartfart #16 Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:24 AM

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View Postturbo_zaix, on 06 October 2016 - 01:41 AM, said:

Played couple of battles after patch...

Is this a joke or all my LTS (5 perks etc) and paper tanks lost their camo??? All bushes inactive???

It made all LT class almost useless now. I don't even see 6th sense and I am destroyed. The most demanding class (lt, batchats) which had its camo feature as the most important advantage now is useless in my opinion. 

 

Seems like a huge nerf not "changed spotting mechanism". Great job....

 

Played also IX tier batchat...well....i felt like driving a maus. Absolutely different and worse experience then before. 

 

if you read the post just above your post...

 



Jigabachi #17 Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:33 AM

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View PostTheGamingLion, on 05 October 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

Anyway, I hope what I tried to describe is clear enough and gets fixed/clarified soon.

Yupp. Good job there. :medal:

(I mean... you for revealing and testing that bug and WG for once again breaking stuff with an update.)

 

That explains quite some weird moments I had when playing my lights. I always got spotted and simply assumed that an enemy light tank with full camo was around, but it turned out that the lights were either dead or at the other side of the map. Must have been fun to see me blindshooting all those bushes although nobody was around there... :sceptic:

 


Edited by Jigabachi, 06 October 2016 - 10:34 AM.


alienslive #18 Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:17 PM

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View PostTheGamingLion, on 05 October 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

 

Anyway, I hope what I tried to describe is clear enough and gets fixed/clarified soon.

 

Yesterday experiance:
Shooting behind the bush: no spotted
Moving a bit: spotted.

 

SargeLucifer #19 Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:22 PM

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Well, that makes some sense. I played the WZ-132 a lot during the testserver, and had some weird moments when trying to do some bushwork. Bushes who before was good for undetected spotting, were suddenly not so great anymore. As an example, the bush on E2 at Mines, I`ve had no problem spotting and still being undetected (without firing) crossing tanks, but that didn`t work well anymore. I know you can be spotted if they make a push up that slope, but that wasn`t the case. The bush on J/K2 the same thing.

 

I noticed it on other maps as well, bushes where you could easily passive scout before, was now unreliable. The bushes on Prokhorovka north spawn still worked, so I guess we have one left at least. 



mrtvimarijan #20 Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:27 PM

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I just don't get how this problems ever get published in game. A couple of simple tests would reveal this problem early even before considering pushing the new patch.

 







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