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Improved Visibility Mechanics

9.16

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Dr_Oolen #21 Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:35 PM

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View Postmrtvimarijan, on 06 October 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

I just don't get how this problems ever get published in game. A couple of simple tests would reveal this problem early even before considering pushing the new patch.

 

 

Despite playing some 10 games on the test server i didnt notice it there (i guess because of simple yolo play), but noticed something was wrong in the very first game (training room checking paris out) the very first time i even got spotted. Gamingloin was in the training room with me and he then continued with further testing. 

 

inb4 we were the first players who noticed the bug (or at least first people who knew something was wrong rather than only "noticed some weird stuff but didnt think much of it")


Edited by troolenhardy, 06 October 2016 - 02:38 PM.


Gepard_PH #22 Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:18 PM

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View PostTheGamingLion, on 05 October 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

I suspected a bug with bushes and their camo values lowering drastically upon moving the tank in or behind them, went to test it. Whole thing:

 

Tank 1: Ru 251, 473m viewrange, 31.1% camo (BiA, 3 crew members on 100% camo skill, 1 member on ~70%, does not have camo paintjob).

Tank 2: WZ-132, 465m viewrange, 33.9% camo (BiA, 100% camo skill on all 4 crew members, has camo paintjob).

 

Note that a light tank has the same camo value when moving and being stationary. So it should not matter if the tank moves when concealed.

 

Tank 1 spots Tank 2 on 328m if no bushes are in play.

Tank 2 spots Tank 1 on 334m if no bushes are in play.

 

Tank 2 spots Tank 1 on 127m if Tank 2 moves towards a stationary Tank 1 concealed by a bush that is transparent to Tank 1.

Tank 2 spots Tank 1 on 321m if Tank 1 is concealed by a bush that is transparent to Tank 1, with Tank 1 moving barely at all (literally pressing W/A/S/D for 0.1s).

Tank 2 does not spot Tank 1 on 321m (or way less, didn't write down numbers) if Tank 1 is concealed by a bush that is not transparent to Tank 1, and moves a little.

 

This was tested on different maps with different bushes. The described bug also seemed to apply to medium tanks, so it is not a LT-only thing. Different light tanks were also used, so it is not limited to specific tanks either.

It seems like since 9.16, bushes only give a tiny bit of the camo they used to give to a moving tank behind/in it, if the bush is "transparent" to the tank.

 

Both replays: http://wotreplays.eu/site/3003904#steppes-slartibartfart-sp_hpanzer_ru_251 http://wotreplays.com/site/3003890#steppes-thegaminglion-wz-132

 

Here something similar in video form: https://youtu.be/znmLfYKpKt0?t=3m30s This is from a different testing game than described above though, but still displays the issue well. The Ru 251 is stationary and unspotted, with a wide enough layer of bush in front of it to prevent any spotting other than through the bush itself. As the tank moves even just a tiny bit, it gets spotted immediately although the camo value the bush gives the tank should not change.

If you skip to 4:10, you can see that it requires the spotting WZ-132 to move 170m (from 300m to 130m) closer in order for the stationary Ru 251 to be spotted.

 

Also tried to recreate the situation on http://www.wotinfo.net/de/camo-calculator with this result: http://i.imgur.com/KbZ9Nhx.png - the resulting numbers differ slightly from what I perceived, but are almost identical.

Though, once one adds the bush density, it doesn't parse anymore.

 

In general it would also make sense to decrease the Sixth Sense delay by a second, since on average it probably takes about 1s less to get spotted, considering all distances.

 

Anyway, I hope what I tried to describe is clear enough and gets fixed/clarified soon.

 

What you describe is not intended. Bushes should provide camo bonus for vehicles on the move as well. It has been reported already and developers are investigating the issue. 

ReapingKnight #23 Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:25 PM

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I didn't notice any issues with bushes...as I got 3k spotting dmg with the Panther 8.8... xD

 

and wasn't spotted I was the only one in line of fire too.



Gepard_PH #24 Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:27 PM

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View PostReapingKnight, on 06 October 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

I didn't notice any issues with bushes...as I got 3k spotting dmg with the Panther 8.8... xD

 

and wasn't spotted I was the only one in line of fire too.

 

According to the reports from players, it only affects vehicles that try to move behind the bushes. If you remain stationary, it works as before update.

ReapingKnight #25 Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:46 PM

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View PostGepard_PH, on 06 October 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

 

According to the reports from players, it only affects vehicles that try to move behind the bushes. If you remain stationary, it works as before update.

 

I was moving forward, spotting wait a bit then move back.behind the bushes...repeat.

topsickrat #26 Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:51 PM

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It feels like a huge nerf to 6th sense, was it intended? I kind of liked how it gave me chance to learn spotting places, and gave some window to react for mistakes, now I usually get killed before it goes off.

who_dares_wins #27 Posted 06 October 2016 - 04:45 PM

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View PostThinderChief, on 06 October 2016 - 01:39 AM, said:

 

Not only that but the opposite seems not to be true, a SU-122 can bush and not loose its invisibility when firing at you when you try to spot, so what's the point trying.

The whole thing is unbalanced in favour of campers too...

He returns!



qest21 #28 Posted 06 October 2016 - 06:08 PM

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Has anyone experienced not been able to spot a tank, thats shooting  you and easily in your view range? I'm talking 2.5 squares away when you can see twice that.

Its happened to me twice now then I have seen them light up on the mini map and drive off once I am dead. I dont get why I could not see them. crew 110% with air con etc.

 

 



Pandabird #29 Posted 06 October 2016 - 06:54 PM

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Improved for enemy IS-3™

Tidal_Force #30 Posted 07 October 2016 - 01:33 AM

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View PostGepard_PH, on 06 October 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

 

What you describe is not intended. Bushes should provide camo bonus for vehicles on the move as well. It has been reported already and developers are investigating the issue. 

 

I tested it further.

 

What causes the bug is not movement per se, but change of state.

When you start moving, bushes take penalty, but while you keep moving it's NOT applied constantly. Tank which sits inside bush and keeps rotating constantly, will disappear after about 10 seconds, after bush penalty and normal spotting duration wear off. This tank will stay invisible until it STOPS moving. Stopping movement will reveal it again, then after if it stands still it will disappear after about 10 seconds again.

 

I made a thread about it, where I also put my speculation which part of server code is borked. Also, I already made a ticket.


Edited by Tidal_Force, 07 October 2016 - 01:40 AM.


Tidal_Force #31 Posted 07 October 2016 - 01:36 AM

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View PostReapingKnight, on 06 October 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

I was moving forward, spotting wait a bit then move back.behind the bushes...repeat.

 

Yes, that should work. Bug applies penalty to bushes (I suspect it just triggers firing bush penalty routine) when you either start or stop moving, not when you move. If you start and finish movement outside of 15m range, you should not trigger the bug.

Del_Monte_Mies #32 Posted 07 October 2016 - 05:20 AM

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holy mother of god.... i would like to see one, JUST ONE patch from wg that they dont fu.k up something, is it possible? have wg hired some trained monkeys on developer side???

jugilismaani #33 Posted 07 October 2016 - 06:15 AM

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View PostDel_Monte_Mies, on 07 October 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

holy mother of god.... i would like to see one, JUST ONE patch from wg that they dont fu.k up something, is it possible? have wg hired some trained monkeys on developer side???

 

umm, when was the last time patch fucked up something because I can't remember.. isn't it enough to have confirmation bias about losing and bad rng but now you have to even cry about patch issues happening all the time when it happens once???

Candyvanmanstan #34 Posted 07 October 2016 - 10:17 AM

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View Postjugilismaani, on 07 October 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

 

umm, when was the last time patch fucked up something because I can't remember.. isn't it enough to have confirmation bias about losing and bad rng but now you have to even cry about patch issues happening all the time when it happens once???

 

Well, the LAST patch, 9.15.2, broke the starting game counter, introduced starting game lag, and broke firing sounds. GG.

DCI_Gene_Hunt_WOT #35 Posted 07 October 2016 - 10:33 AM

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View PostGepard_PH, on 06 October 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

 

According to the reports from players, it only affects vehicles that try to move behind the bushes. If you remain stationary, it works as before update.

 

Bit of a problem for lights who are supposed to keep their camo while moving innit? ;)

TheGamingLion #36 Posted 07 October 2016 - 01:41 PM

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WG announced that the issue I addressed here has been fixed: https://eu.wargaming...upport/news/153

 

I tested it and can confirm that the bug is gone.

 

It also turned out that only changing the state of your tank from moving to stationary, or from stationary to moving caused bushes to give close to 0 camo, as clarified by Tidal_Force.


Edited by TheGamingLion, 07 October 2016 - 01:50 PM.


FerdiX #37 Posted 07 October 2016 - 01:52 PM

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View PostTheGamingLion, on 07 October 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

WG announced that the issue I addressed here has been fixed: https://eu.wargaming...upport/news/153

 

I tested it and can confirm that the bug is gone.

 

It also turned out that only changing the state of your tank from moving to stationary, or from stationary to moving caused bushes to give close to 0 camo, as clarified by Tidal_Force.

 

Yeah that sounds really good.

As annoying as the bug was I have to admit that Wargaming performed very fast in fixing it. So I am pleased (assuming that all works well this evening when I play).

 



Ubervold #38 Posted 07 October 2016 - 02:08 PM

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View PostTheGamingLion, on 07 October 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

WG announced that the issue I addressed here has been fixed: https://eu.wargaming...upport/news/153

 

I tested it and can confirm that the bug is gone.

 

It also turned out that only changing the state of your tank from moving to stationary, or from stationary to moving caused bushes to give close to 0 camo, as clarified by Tidal_Force.

 

Would it not be nice if they could post it somewhere where people actually would read it, like the forums?

Pvt_Duffer #39 Posted 07 October 2016 - 02:26 PM

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View PostFerdiX, on 07 October 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

Yeah that sounds really good.

As annoying as the bug was I have to admit that Wargaming performed very fast in fixing it. So I am pleased (assuming that all works well this evening when I play).

 

 

I am the first to blame myself when I play this game. Either alcohol or straight up incompetence. I know I am not good at it,

However I do know how it works, and yesterday was very frustrating until I found this thread. (and clearly not just for me)

 

When you have something that basically nullifies a core game mechanic and makes possibly as many as half the tanks and  a few of the maps completely redundant. Fix fast.

 

 



samolikvidator #40 Posted 07 October 2016 - 03:54 PM

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Rhm just shoot me from 30m.He was in the bush on open space and i could not see him.then he shoot me again and killed me and 1sec after my tank exploded he got spoted by me.wtf?

Is this turning in some sf game or what?


Edited by samolikvidator, 07 October 2016 - 06:43 PM.






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