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Battle Chat Modifications

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LanguishViking #21 Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:23 AM

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I now have serious doubts turning off battle chat will reduce toxicity. Rather than venting myself in battle chat; which can be ignored or turned off manually; I find myself wanting (but the better angel prevents me) to track them down send messages after the game is over or spam their twitch stream with bile. I expect your regular cancer fag gold noob abuser will just do that instead. 

 

Address the only root cause which can be addressed; Artillery. People will be trolls but you have to stop enabling them. 



Homer_J #22 Posted 06 October 2016 - 08:43 AM

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View Postseegge, on 05 October 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

Something popped to mind.. will people shoot more gold now as they wont get 'feedback'

 

They might shoot less since they don't get to farm salty tears any more.

Cynd3r #23 Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:01 AM

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Let me shed some light on this decision.

 

The purpose of of battle chat is supposed to be about coordinating your actions with allies and communicating for better teamwork, as good teamwork is essential in gaining the upper hand in a battle.

 

At the same time, after years of observation and feedback, we've found that cross-battle chat provides no benefit and is instead used for insults, provocations, and other inappropriate behavior. Instead of aiding good gameplay (which, I reiterate, is the number one reason FOR battle chat), it ends up hindering it by being used to disclose placement of allies and distracting others from the game. 

This is also why we didn't choose to make cross-team chat optional--even if an individual can choose not to read the exchanges, it's not going to stop a teammate from disclosing an ally position to the enemy team--it's just that they'll be unaware of it. 

 

When observing the reasoning of people trying to argue the benefits of cross team battle chat, we've mostly been seeing responses that more or less boil down to this: "the whole point in this game is to DESTROY ur enemy physically (tanks+skills) and spiritually (strategy + troll).." (this is from an actual post).

 

For those of you arguing that all this does is displace the toxicity rather than get rid of it: This actually does get rid of a large portion of toxicity. To mitigate the possibility of people being toxic within team chat, we've added the ability to mute them. Also when hovering over a nickname, you will be able to send a complaint about a player, add them to a blacklist.

 

You can also enable the option of receiving private messages only from friends or disable private messages at all.

 

Hope this clears up the logic behind this decision. Obviously it can't make everyone happy, but it's become apparent that this move will improve players' gameplay experience in general. 



Homer_J #24 Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:36 AM

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View PostCynd3r, on 06 October 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

Let me shed some light on this decision.

 

The purpose of of battle chat is supposed to be about coordinating your actions with allies and communicating for better teamwork, as good teamwork is essential in gaining the upper hand in a battle.

 

It has never been used for that.  There is no communication in team chat only calling people names because of their stats.  If there was any logic in your decision then you would have disabled team chat as well and left just the chat shortcuts, which are far more useful than team chat since there is no language barrier.

 

Quote

 

At the same time, after years of observation and feedback, we've found that cross-battle chat provides no benefit and is instead used for insults, provocations, and other inappropriate behavior.

 

You mean smack talk?  Which has been part of every online game I have ever played, going back to Duke Nukem 3D and Quake.  In fact Duke Nukem had smack talk built in.  It's part of what makes multiplayer games fun. 

 

It's a multiplayer game, it's about interacting with people.  Taking away some of that interaction is taking away part of the enjoyment of the game.

 

Quote

For those of you arguing that all this does is displace the toxicity rather than get rid of it: This actually does get rid of a large portion of toxicity. To mitigate the possibility of people being toxic within team chat, we've added the ability to mute them.

 

Then why not just add that feature for the enemy too.  Not that it is anything new anyway since you could blacklist people before which muted them  It just removes the need to unblacklist them after the battle.

 

Quote

Hope this clears up the logic behind this decision.

 

Nope, it just makes it all the more illogical.



Schmeksiman #25 Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:57 AM

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View PostCynd3r, on 06 October 2016 - 11:01 AM, said:

For those of you arguing that all this does is displace the toxicity rather than get rid of it: This actually does get rid of a large portion of toxicity. To mitigate the possibility of people being toxic within team chat, we've added the ability to mute them. Also when hovering over a nickname, you will be able to send a complaint about a player, add them to a blacklist.

 

Well that nice change of yours did stop me from saying hi to people on the opposite team 3-4 times yesterday but I still got 3 PM accusing me of cheating and one that could be considered a death threat.

So good work!



maroar #26 Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:49 PM

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Actually, I love that I now chat is also turned of during skirmishes/CWs.

Sometimes it is sad that in those modes I can not speak to friendly clans/players from the enemy clan, overall it is a positive change for me.



grey_area #27 Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:51 PM

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Bad idea WG. Not really a modification as it's really only taken something away that most players valued. There are always the odd trolls (usually on your own side TBH) and those who give away genuine positions and the reporting function allows the community to deal with these. In most instances enemy positions are either bluffs or AFK vehicles at end game. It's good to be able to congratulate great play whichever side it's on and great to recieve this feedback too. Please do reinstate cross team chat or at least make it an option to be disabled or enabled by individual players. It's taken away a great deal of the games' fun.

Edited by grey_area, 06 October 2016 - 03:52 PM.


Orrie #28 Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:53 PM

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The chat was fine before, and it would be better to just extend the "Disable Chat" feature with disabled it completely, or just for the enemy team, which gives the player the freedom to chose what's best.

Now it's just another useless censor to lighten the supports work on bad behavior in chat.

Hiding the problem doesn't fix it.

 

Also, about the teamwork, in most games, team barely communicates and is mostly used for greets, early battle tank talk and GGs.

The communication is done through random pinging around the map.

 

And if someone really wants to flame anyone, they bring up a PM after the battle, which allows for more concentrated exchange of words and opinions.

Only way I can call someone autistic for suicides. :trollface:



Bad_Mojo_incoming #29 Posted 06 October 2016 - 04:02 PM

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Please, switch battle chat back on! True, I'm not innocent myself when it comes to ratting out my 'teammates' to the enemy, but when the F***er shoots me 3 times for taking his camping spot, kills me and DOESN'T get sent to the 'penalty box' for an hour...then you can't expect people to just leave it alone.

Or when an idiot thinks he is some kind of commissar and executes you in a light tank for fleeing from 3 Tier 10 heavies...

Or when you bump into another friendly scout and he/she detracks you out in the open on purpose and you get focus killed, all cz you bumped into him/her and he/she lost some speed...just cz he/she is a 'purple unicorn'

All these have happened to me alone. You can't exactly expect people ot just let crap like this go and not want some retribution.

I only gave up 'teammates' who have been a deliberate assholes to me for no reason. And only a few times in my 14k battles.

However, all this crap aside, I can only speak for my experience but it has been rare in battles that someone gave up their ally's location, and it was really fun reading the hystrianic whining of kids about gold, or supposed aimbot, etc.

 

Toxicity is always present, no matter what, but using this 'lets burn the building to kill a mouse' approach is not good, WG.



Gepard_PH #30 Posted 06 October 2016 - 04:30 PM

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View Postgrey_area, on 06 October 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

Bad idea WG. Not really a modification as it's really only taken something away that most players valued. There are always the odd trolls (usually on your own side TBH) and those who give away genuine positions and the reporting function allows the community to deal with these. In most instances enemy positions are either bluffs or AFK vehicles at end game. It's good to be able to congratulate great play whichever side it's on and great to recieve this feedback too. Please do reinstate cross team chat or at least make it an option to be disabled or enabled by individual players. It's taken away a great deal of the games' fun.

 

You can congratulate the player by sending him a message after the battle. 

 

It is actually a way better idea to be social while still in your garage. And if someone really likes to talk, they can join an active clan. Also, it is still possible to chat with your teammates during the battle, I wouldn't recommend it though as you should be focusing on winning the battle instead.

 

I'm confident this change will prove to be a good decision in the long run, even if it takes a while to get used to the absence of cross-team chat. Personally I appreciate that it is now impossible to reveal allies position and people who chat seem to be more collected now.

 

 



fitzay #31 Posted 06 October 2016 - 06:18 PM

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@ Gephard at Cynd3r

 

I find this change rather patronizing and would even go as far as saying that it is illiberal in spirit. Moreover, being this concerned with toxicity in the context of online gaming seems a bit childish. Now that's just my personal opinion on such things in general, you don't have to agree...

 

...but, really, preventing people from talking to each other in an online game in order to "improve the gameplay experience" is absurd! Everyone seems to agree, your arguing against it is quixotic!
 

I sincerely hope we will return to a free flow of information in WOT - including the good the bad and the ugly!

 

fitzay

 



jusa691 #32 Posted 06 October 2016 - 06:24 PM

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View PostGepard_PH, on 06 October 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

You can congratulate the player by sending him a message after the battle. 

 

It is actually a way better idea to be social while still in your garage. And if someone really likes to talk, they can join an active clan. Also, it is still possible to chat with your teammates during the battle, I wouldn't recommend it though as you should be focusing on winning the battle instead.

 

I really want team to team chat back. For me it makes a big change not being able to occasionally send gg's and exchange words with other team. I've had tons of laughs there. Even if someone cries like a baby when I blow them to smithereens, then I at least know I hit them good lol. When I'm at garage I'm already racing to other match. Don't need big conversations at garage, but interaction during the match where it's most fun.

 

View PostGepard_PH, on 06 October 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

Personally I appreciate that it is now impossible to reveal allies position and people who chat seem to be more collected now.

 

Not that big problem for me, don't trust the position reveals 100% anyway. The team I've been in has more than once given false positions to the enemy. Sometime even won a match that way lol

 



YummyPork #33 Posted 06 October 2016 - 07:04 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 06 October 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

 

It has never been used for that.  There is no communication in team chat only calling people names because of their stats.  If there was any logic in your decision then you would have disabled team chat as well and left just the chat shortcuts, which are far more useful than team chat since there is no language barrier.

 

Quote

 

At the same time, after years of observation and feedback, we've found that cross-battle chat provides no benefit and is instead used for insults, provocations, and other inappropriate behavior.

 

You mean smack talk?  Which has been part of every online game I have ever played, going back to Duke Nukem 3D and Quake.  In fact Duke Nukem had smack talk built in.  It's part of what makes multiplayer games fun. 

 

It's a multiplayer game, it's about interacting with people.  Taking away some of that interaction is taking away part of the enjoyment of the game.

 

Quote

For those of you arguing that all this does is displace the toxicity rather than get rid of it: This actually does get rid of a large portion of toxicity. To mitigate the possibility of people being toxic within team chat, we've added the ability to mute them.

 

Then why not just add that feature for the enemy too.  Not that it is anything new anyway since you could blacklist people before which muted them  It just removes the need to unblacklist them after the battle.

 

Quote

Hope this clears up the logic behind this decision.

 

Nope, it just makes it all the more illogical.

 

Well said Homer_J.   Exactly my thoughts on this.

 

WOT is now a little bit less multi-player than it was last patch and for questionable reasoning.   Sorry Cyn3r, your explanation doesn't make much sense to me (as Homer_J pointed out) and does not match my experience in game.  I doubt it will "become apparent that this move will improve players' gameplay experience in general".  At best I will probably just get used to missing the social interaction with half of the people I am playing with.     



B0dai #34 Posted 06 October 2016 - 07:27 PM

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Hello,

 

CHAT  remove = boring 

boring = delete the game 

delete the game =   no money for YOU.

 

Pls fix this problem fast !

 

TY



fitzay #35 Posted 06 October 2016 - 07:44 PM

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View PostYummyPork, on 06 October 2016 - 07:04 PM, said

 

WOT is now a little bit less multi-player than it was last patch and for questionable reasoning . . . I doubt it will "become apparent that this move will improve players' gameplay experience in general".  At best I will probably just get used to missing the social interaction with half of the people I am playing with.     

 

That...

 

Thinking about it...turning off cross team chat is so un-social/internet/community/21st century...What did WG ever expect to achieve with this? People will not accept it! WG will defend its "reasoning" and "logic" until they will eventually budge and take back their decision.

 

mark my words...



HeidenSieker #36 Posted 06 October 2016 - 07:58 PM

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View PostGepard_PH, on 06 October 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

I'm confident this change will prove to be a good decision in the long run, even if it takes a while to get used to the absence of cross-team chat. Personally I appreciate that it is now impossible to reveal allies position and people who chat seem to be more collected now.

 

Are people whose tanks have been destroyed still able to chat? In a game just now, it seemed not.

Homer_J #37 Posted 06 October 2016 - 08:47 PM

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View PostGepard_PH, on 06 October 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

 

 

I'm confident this change will prove to be a good decision in the long run, even if it takes a while to get used to the absence of cross-team chat. Personally I appreciate that it is now impossible to reveal allies position and people who chat seem to be more collected now.

 

 

 

The only people who will appreciate not being able to reveal allied positions are those who drive to A0 at the start of the battle and stay there. 



Olaen #38 Posted 06 October 2016 - 09:37 PM

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SAVE ALL CHAT!

I here repeat my comment from SUPERTEST/COMMONTEST 9.16 thread!

I still think removing the "ALL CHAT" from game because a few ppl dont know how to beahave is a BIG mistake for the social aspect and game experience of WOT!

Please DONT let the SPEWING TROLLs ruin an awsome feature of WoT!

 

And as I can see in this thread, I am apparantly not the only one thinking this! PLEASE  BRING BACK BATTLE "ALL" CHAT!  :)

Just had my first game this patch, it definitly confirmed my fears! Game without ALL chat is simply not the same! I was acking to tell enemy they played well, but it was simply not possible! :facepalm:

 

Gremlin182, on 01 September 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

Saddened by the plan to prevent cross team battle chat but I can see the reasoning.

I will miss the nice aimbot and reported comments as they were quite funny.

Also miss the ability to comment good game and nice shot, yep im afraid im one of those good natured guys who occasionally compliments someone who just killed me.

Cannot we just neuter the toxic players

 

 

The comment from Gremlin182 is SPOT ON for why I came into forums today to comment on this update!

 

To me this change really again "Rewards" the trolls that spew the goo, by removing this chat feature for all us others who actually use it to try and build a better and more fun game!

I can sure see the point in doing this to stop the toxics, but this again means that because a few (sorry the expression) Idiots, cant control their anger and behaviour, a for me BIG PART of the community and joy about the game is lost!

 

I am also one of those players congratulating the enemy arty for just oneshotting my full HP scout on the move, and the like, cause I recognize that it more often then not took skill to actually hit me! OFC, I am not happy that I am dead, but enemy player did what he was supposed to, I didnt "wiggle" enough! ;D  Not his fault!

If I see someone some1 betraying their team, by f.ex. telling position or the like, I tell them that they should NEVER do that, simply because it aint fair to their team. However bad they think their teammates might have played!

 

I also find it is simply polite to send a GG to both own and enemy team in end of a game if they crushed us or vice versa, because those 2 simple letters recognices the effort both teams put in to win!

 

I think the better approach would be to restrict cross team chat for those who get a lot of complaints about doing the toxic spew/betrayal or something like that, and let all us others keep talking game like we always have!

This game is afterall not just about tanks, not for me atleast, I find its also about the community and talking to ppl in chat after dying f.ex., and often the funniest chats are when we can do some funny comments between teams, it simply brightens the game and makes it even more funny. And also often results in me and fellow teamplayers staying in the game even after death, trying to help teammembers remember positions or HP or stuff that can help our own still playing teammembers. I dont know if that will be as attractive anymore if it aint possible to throw jokes back and forth with enemy team!

 

So the POINT I am trying to make, is PUNISH the TOXIC BETRAYING SPEWERS, and not the "NORMAL GOOD GUYS", meaning not all of us others just trying to have a fun game with causual chat doing nothing wrong!

 

The mute feature is a good start, make an own complaint choice and just make it automatic mute some1s cross team talk ability for rest of game if a player gets a certain amount of complaints during a game. 

And if a player has this happen to him X times during the last 24h, then he gets automatic muted for a week f.ex. And if it still keeps happeneing after the week mute, maybe with an increased mute time for each time he gets the punishment. So next time he gets 2 weeks, then 3 weeks mute etc.  

And last but not least, you can implement a cooldown timer, so if the "offencive" player cleans his act up for a certain amount of time his "Mute status" gets restored to normal, meaning he will start the "ladder" again if he restarts spew, but hopefully has learnd that it wasnt so clever and actually has stopped the sh..! ;)

 

Just a little suggestion, maybe some1 else has an even better idea, but I wanted to throw it out there! :)

 

Happy tanking guys, and looking forward to new spotting mechanics, new map and SWEDISH TANKS! ;D 

 

Feel free to LIKE this post if you agree!

 

So GL & HF All ! :)

 

Cheers

Olaen


Edited by Olaen, 06 October 2016 - 10:18 PM.


themk #39 Posted 06 October 2016 - 09:43 PM

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View PostCynd3r, on 06 October 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

The purpose of of battle chat is supposed to be

 

Stop right there. And just think for a moment about the meaning of those words.

 

What matters in ANY business is what a customer does with the product, not what he is supposed to do.

 

Likewise what matters about team-to-teamchat is NOT what someone thinks about what it should be used for, but what it's actually used for. What it actually means to your users. And it is for many a vital part of the social aspect of the game. (social in the sense of human-to-human interaction, not in the sense of necessarily friendly)


Edited by themk, 06 October 2016 - 09:48 PM.


fitzay #40 Posted 06 October 2016 - 09:57 PM

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View Postthemk, on 06 October 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

 

Stop right there. And just think for a moment about the meaning of those words.

 

What matters in ANY business is what a customer does with the product, not what he is supposed to do.

 

Likewise what matters about team-to-teamchat is NOT what someone thinks about what it should be used for, but what it's actually used for. What it actually means to your users. And it is for many a vital part of the social aspect of the game. (social in the sense of human-to-human interaction, not in the sense of necessarily friendly)

 

...and we're back to the fundamental issue: turning off cross team chat to "IMPROVE GAME EXPERIENCE" and calling it "logical" is simply preposterous...Sorry WG, but in that meeting, where one of you guys pitched that idea, a collective *face palm* would have been the right response. I'm convinced that this will be revoked...it's simply stu....well, let's say it's untenable, I guess toxicity is what got us here.

 

*edit*

 

This is my third post on one page, my god, I have never felt this strong of an urge to voice my concerns...this is just such an awful step to take!!! Not just for the game, but as an operational business decision! It's like apple producing phones without headphone jacks...oh wait..


Edited by fitzay, 06 October 2016 - 10:04 PM.






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