Jump to content


Effective Armor Protection Comparison


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
36 replies to this topic

ZeZergling #1 Posted 03 October 2011 - 07:19 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 356
  • Member since:
    10-03-2011
WoT's armor values are kinda misleading, as they don't state slope angle, nor is the normalisation mechanic mentioned.
So I calculated the effective armor protection of many WoT tanks, assuming all shots are straight towards the frontal aspect of the tank (no sideways angling).

I mostly used historical armor values for my calculations, except for where I know WoT differs, like with the Tiger II having 120mm thick lower glacis in WoT, instead of the historical 100mm.

I only calculated for frontal armor, as this is most important facing on every tank. Side and rear armor would take a bit more work, and only a handful of tanks in WoT have decent side armor anyway.
I also haven't done anything in regards to turret armor, as that is significantly more complicated than hull armor, due to mantlet having seperate armor to front turret, which may or may not overlap with the front turret armor. And on top of that, turrets and mantlets are often curved, and I'm honestly not sure how to calculate slope for curved armor.
Plus, turret armor isn't quite as important as hull armor, with the majority of damage to tanks in WoT being done via hull shots (apart from arty damage).

I couldn't find all the armor thickness and slope values I wanted though, so I'd appreciate it if anyone could provide information on the following:

IS-3; lateral/horitzonal axis angle of upper glacis plates.
IS-4; better information about the driver viewport and plate; angles and thickness.
IS-7; haven't got a clue about the slope angles or armor thickness for this tank.


Armor terms:

Glacis: the front hull armor.
Note that the M3 Lee and M4 Sherman (and derivatives of those tanks) lower glacis is the lower curved part of the front hull, with the upper glacis being the section above the curve; normally marked by a row of rivets.

Driver's plate: plate above the upper glacis that joins to the top hull... see tanks like the Tiger I, Panzer IV, IS-1/2 for this kind of armor arrangement. Not all tanks have 3 section front hull arrangement like this, most just a upper and lower plate.

Superstructure: frontal armor for casemate style turretless tanks (Tank Destroyers), where the gun is mounted on top of the hull. Eg, Ferdinand and JagdTiger.


Ammo types:
AP: regular credit purchasable AP ammo. 8 degree normalisation.
APCR/APDS: gold/premium ammo for most guns. 12 degree normalisation.
HE/HEAT: HEAT is gold/premium ammo for some guns, mostly low velocity howitzer types and the E-100's 15cm gun. HE and HEAT don't have any normalisation.

And here's the armor figures. Feel free to correct any mistakes!

Panzer IV:

Driver's Plate = 80mm at 10 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 80mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 80mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 81mm

Lower Glacis = 80mm at 14 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 80mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 80mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 82mm



Panther:

Upper Glacis = 82mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Fffective protection versus AP = 120mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 112mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 143mm

Lower Glacis = 62mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 91mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 85mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 108mm



Panther II:

Upper Glacis = 100mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 88mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 82mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 105mm



E-50:

Upper Glacis = 120mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 195mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 240mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 60? degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 195mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 240mm



T-34 and T-34-85:

Upper Glacis = 45mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 67mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 90mm

Lower Glacis = 45mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 67mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 90mm



T-43:

Upper Glacis = 75mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 110mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 103mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 131mm



T-44:

Upper Glacis = 90mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 146mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 135mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 180mm

Lower Glacis = 90mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 146mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 135mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 180mm



Type 59:

Upper Glacis = 100mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 162mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 149mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 200mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm



T-54:

Upper Glacis = 120mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 195mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 240mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 176mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 164mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 209mm



M24 Chaffee:

Upper Glacis = 25mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 41mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 37mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 50mm

Lower Glacis = 25mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 31mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 30mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 35mm



M4 Sherman:

Upper Glacis = 51mm at 56 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 76mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 71mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 91mm

Lower Glacis = 51mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 51mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 51mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 53mm



M4A3E8 Sherman:

Upper Glacis = 63mm at 47 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 77mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 92mm

Lower Glacis = 102mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 103mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 102mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 106mm



M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo:

Upper Glacis = 102mm at 47 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 131mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 125mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 150mm

Lower Glacis = 139mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 140mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 139mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 144mm



M26 Pershing and M46 Patton:

Upper Glacis = 102mm at 46 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 129mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 123mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 147mm

Lower Glacis = 76mm at 53 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 107mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 101mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 126mm



Tiger I:

Driver's Plate = 100mm at 9 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 100mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 100mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 101mm

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 80 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 194mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 160mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 346mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 25 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 105mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 103mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 110mm



Tiger II:

Upper Glacis = 150mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 202mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 190mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 233mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 161mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 152mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 187mm



E-75:

Upper Glacis = 160mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 260mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 239mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 320mm

Lower Glacis = 130mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 211mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 194mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 260mm



E-100:

Upper Glacis = 200mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 325mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 299mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 400mm

Lower Glacis = 150mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 202mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 190mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 233mm



VK 4502 (P) Ausf. A

Upper Glacis = 120mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 176mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 164mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 209mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 150mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 143mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 170mm



VK 4502 (P) Ausf. B

Upper Glacis = 170mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 249mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 232mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 296mm

Lower Glacis = 150mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 188mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 212mm



Maus:

Upper Glacis = 200mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 293mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 273mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 349mm

Lower Glacis = 200mm at 35 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 224mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 217mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 244mm



KV-1/2:

Driver's Plate = 75mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 79mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm

Upper Glacis = 40mm at 65 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 66mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 95mm

Lower Glacis = 75mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 79mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm



KV-1S:

Driver's Plate = 75mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 79mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm

Upper Glacis = 50mm at 70 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 66mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 95mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 25 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 63mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 62mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 66mm



IS-2 Model 1943 (ingame tier 7 IS):

Driver's Plate = 120mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 129mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 126mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 139mm

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 72 degrees from vertical (might be 70mm)

Effective protection versus AP = 137mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 120mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 194mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 108mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 105mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 115mm



IS-3:

Driver's Plate = 110mm at 76 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 294mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 251mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 455mm

Upper Glacis (if 30 degree lateral angle) = 110mm at 62 degrees from vertical and 30? degree lateral angle

Effective protection versus AP = 202mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 180mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 271mm

Upper Glacis (if 20 degree lateral angle) = 110mm at 62 degrees from vertical and 20? degree lateral angle

Effective protection versus AP = 191mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 173mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 249mm

Lower Glacis = 110mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 161mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 150mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 192mm



IS-4:

Upper Glacis = 140mm at 61 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 233mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 213mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 289mm

Lower Glacis = 160mm at 40 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 189mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 181mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 209mm



M6:

Upper Glacis = 83mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 90mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 87mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 96mm

Lower Glacis = 102mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 103mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 102mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 106mm



T29/T30/T34 Heavy Tank:

Upper Glacis = 102mm at 54 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm



T32:

Upper Glacis = 127mm at 54 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 183mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 171mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 216mm



Hetzer:

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 97mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 90mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 129mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 40 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 71mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 68mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 78mm



Stug III:

Upper Glacis = 50mm at 10 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 50mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 50mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 51mm

Lower Glacis = 50mm at 21 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 51mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 51mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 54mm



JagdPanzer IV:

Superstructure = 80mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 108mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 102mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 124mm

Upper Glacis = 80mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 100mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 95mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 113mm

Lower Glacis = 50mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 68mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm



Jagdpanther:

Upper Glacis = 80mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 117mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 109mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 139mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 55 degrees from vertical (XML only has a 65mm value, so may be thicker in WoT)

Effective protection versus AP = 88mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 82mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 105mm



Ferdinand:

Superstructure = 200mm at 20 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 204mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 202mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 213mm

Driver's Plate = 200mm at 12 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 200mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 200mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 204mm

Upper Glacis = 200mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 250mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 238mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 283mm

Lower Glacis = 80mm at 35 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 90mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 87mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 98mm



JagdTiger:

Superstructure = 250mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 252mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 250mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 259mm

Upper Glacis = 150mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 202mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 190mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 233mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 187mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 161mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 152mm



SU-85:

Upper Glacis = 45mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 61mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 57mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 70mm

Lower Glacis = 45mm at 53 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 64mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 60mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 75mm



SU-100:

Upper Glacis = 75mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 101mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 95mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 117mm

Lower Glacis = 45mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 66mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 62mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 78mm



SU-152:

Superstructure = 75mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 79mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 70 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 128mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 113mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 175mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 65mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 63mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 69mm



ISU-152:

Superstructure = 90mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 97mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 95mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 104mm

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 78 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 175mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 148mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 289mm

Lower Glacis = 90mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 97mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 95mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 104mm



Object 704:

Upper Glacis = 120mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 161mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 152mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 187mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm



M10 Wolverine:

Upper Glacis = 51mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 75mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 70mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 89mm

Lower Glacis = 114mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 115mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 114mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 118mm



M36 Slugger:

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 88mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 82mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 105mm

Lower Glacis = 114mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 115mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 114mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 118mm



And for everyone's enjoyment, here's some tanks that aren't in WoT yet!
They aren't all planned, but who knows what will be added in the future?


M103 Heavy Tank:

Upper Glacis = 127mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 206mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 190mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 254mm

Lower Glacis = 114mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 153mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 145mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 177mm

Not exactly stellar armor for a tier 9 heavy, but comparable to the Tiger II, so it certainly is a big upgrade over the T34!



T26E4 Super Pershing:

Upper Glacis = 122mm at 46 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 155mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 147mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 176mm

Lower Glacis = 96 mm at 53 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 136mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 127mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 160mm

Be nice to have this tank as an (slower) alternative to the M26 at tier 8, or the M46 at tier 9.



M47 Patton:

Upper Glacis = 102mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 166mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 152mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 204mm

The effective protection is only slightly better than the Type 59!



M48 Patton:

Upper Glacis = 110mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 179mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 164mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 220mm

Still inferior to the T-54 and E-50.



M18 Hellcat:

Upper Glacis = 13mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 21mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 19mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 26mm

Lower Glacis = 13mm at 40 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 15mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 15mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 17mm

This thing has less armor than even the Chaffee!



SturmTiger:

Superstructure = 150mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 188mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 212mm

Upper Glacis = 150mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 188mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 212mm

Lower Glacis = 102mm at 25 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 107mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 105mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 103mm

380mm Rocket Mortar and the armor of a tier 8 heavy tank... DERP?

Panocek #2 Posted 03 October 2011 - 08:32 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 4,585
  • Member since:
    05-24-2011
Good finding, though I'm not sure about
E-100:
.
.
.
Lower Glacis = 150mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 244mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 224mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 300mm

As I have not much trouble penetrating it with 88mm L71 (203mm penetration) head on. In fact, E-75 gives more trouble to penetrate from the front.

kyuu0 #3 Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:39 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 137
  • Member since:
    09-26-2010
There are quite a few things which I can either: a.) go through easier or b.) harder, than those numbers might suggest.


Could you calculate the t28 and t95? :P

Shrikeh #4 Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:48 AM

    Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 282
  • Member since:
    11-18-2010

View Postkyuu0, on 03 October 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

There are quite a few things which I can either: a) go through easier or B) harder, than those numbers might suggest.


Yep .. don't forget the +/- 25% dieroll

IMO 25% variable is way to much but that's another thread

undtctd #5 Posted 03 October 2011 - 10:05 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 105
  • Member since:
    05-08-2011
You've done hell lot of nice work mate :) Maths can't be wrong but game normalisation system can. Cause my IS3 would bounce like sick according to these values, although actually it doesn't.

steamrick #6 Posted 03 October 2011 - 10:39 AM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 582
  • Member since:
    12-02-2010
Veeery nice, thank you for your effort :)

Are you sure that Ferdi has 200mm everywhere (except weakspot I suppose)?

ZeZergling #7 Posted 03 October 2011 - 11:49 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 356
  • Member since:
    10-03-2011

View PostPanocek, on 03 October 2011 - 08:32 AM, said:

Good finding, though I'm not sure about
E-100:
.
.
.
Lower Glacis = 150mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 244mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 224mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 300mm

As I have not much trouble penetrating it with 88mm L71 (203mm penetration) head on. In fact, E-75 gives more trouble to penetrate from the front.

Thanks for pointing that out; E-100 actually has 50 degree slope on the lower plate, unlike the 60 degree on the E-75 and E-50.
Kinda odd, but prototype tank had 200mm on the lower hull, not 150mm, so this is an artificial weakspot.

Here's the recalculated values, and updated the main post.

E-100:

Lower Glacis = 150mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 202mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 190mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 233mm

This means the E-75 lower plate is tougher; 202mm protection versus 211mm. That'd give a 50% chance to pen with the 88mm L/71, but it drop by 10% or more against the E-75.



View Postkyuu0, on 03 October 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

There are quite a few things which I can either: a.) go through easier or b.) harder, than those numbers might suggest.


Could you calculate the t28 and t95? :P

A lot of the armor thickness values are estimates based on the real world tanks, or pulled from the XMLs.

WoT mostly uses real world armor values, but occasionally differs.
And the XMLs probably aren't the actual armor values (as that is all calculated server side); the armor section in the XMLs is probably for the crosshair penetration green/yellow/red penetration chance indicator.

Slope angles are either based on known values for various tanks, which may differ ingame (not very likely to differ, unless a source is incorrect) and sometimes they are estimates produced by calculating angle from side profile pictures and images.

Only people that know the exact armor thickness and slope angles are the Developers, so I can't guarentee 100% accuracy. Testing in practice rooms would help improve accuracy, but I've yet to organise anything like that.


As for T28 and T95... well... they have curved mantlets that may or may not overlap the front armor. They'd be really tough to calculate armor thickness and slope.



View Postundtctd, on 03 October 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

You've done hell lot of nice work mate :) Maths can't be wrong but game normalisation system can. Cause my IS3 would bounce like sick according to these values, although actually it doesn't.

Thanks, as for the IS-3, any kind of side angling (up to the lateral angle) will decrease the effective frontal protection.
I suspect I may the lateral angle a bit too high, as it is only an estimate till I manage to find a hard value, so I've added another section for the upper glacis for a 20 degree lateral angle.

IS-3:

Upper Glacis (if 20 degree lateral angle) = 110mm at 62 degrees from vertical and 20? degree lateral angle

Effective protection versus AP = 191mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 173mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 249mm



View Poststeamrick, on 03 October 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

Veeery nice, thank you for your effort :)

Are you sure that Ferdi has 200mm everywhere (except weakspot I suppose)?

Thanks, I'm not sure about the Ferdi; armor values are based on irl version:

http://www.achtungpa...nd-elephant.htm

Front Superstructure: 200/20-25
Front Upper Hull: 100+100/9-12
Front Lower Hull: 100+100/30-35
Gun Mantlet: 25/0 + 100/round
Side Superstructure: 80/28-30
Side Upper Hull: 80/0
Side Lower Hull: 60/0
Rear Superstructure: 80/20
Rear Upper Hull: 80/40
Rear Lower Hull: 80/0
Top Superstructure: 30/86
Top Upper Hull: 25-30/90
Bottom Lower Hull: 30+20/90


And WoT's xml files:

<armor>
<armor_1> 280 </armor_1>
<armor_2> 200 </armor_2>
<armor_3> 80 </armor_3>
<armor_4> 80 </armor_4>
<armor_5> 200 </armor_5>
<armor_6> 80 </armor_6>
<armor_7> 80 </armor_7>
<armor_8> 25 </armor_8>
<armor_9> 30 </armor_9>
<armor_10> 0 </armor_10>
<armor_12> 30 <noDamage> true </noDamage><surveyingDevice> 50 </surveyingDevice></armor_12>
</armor>
<primaryArmor>armor_2 armor_3 armor_4</primaryArmor>

Armor <armor_2> is front hull, 3 is sides, and 4 is rear. Working out what location the other armor values are is largely educated guesswork.
5 is probably lower plate, and the 280mm armor 1 may be superstructure (which is rather odd given it was 100+100 irl, which is why I'm somewhat skeptical of how accurate the xmls are).

As for weakspots, I've only driven the Tiger P; it has shoulders, mudflaps, lower hull and turret weakspots.

Tiger P lists this armor in the xml:

<armor>
<armor_1> 200 </armor_1>
<armor_2> 80 </armor_2>
<armor_3> 80 </armor_3>
<armor_4> 80 </armor_4>
<armor_5> 60 </armor_5>
<armor_6> 40 </armor_6>
<armor_7> 25 </armor_7>
<armor_8> 25 </armor_8>
<armor_9> 20 </armor_9>
<armor_10> 20 <noDamage> true </noDamage></armor_10>
<surveyingDevice> 40 </surveyingDevice>
</armor>
<primaryArmor>armor_1 armor_3 armor_4</primaryArmor>

I'm uncertain is armor 1 is all over the front, or just the driver's plate. I don't know about the upper glacis thickness either; it might be 80mm sloped at around 80 degrees for both Ferdi and Tiger P.

Gigaton #8 Posted 03 October 2011 - 12:20 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 1,380
  • Member since:
    11-11-2010
The 'belly plate' is just 100mm (or possibly one of those 80mm figures). AFAIK anyway, haven't had to face Ferdi frontally in a while with low pen tank. But it's certainly a weak spot regardless, so 200mm is right out.

ZeZergling #9 Posted 03 October 2011 - 12:44 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 356
  • Member since:
    10-03-2011

View PostGigaton, on 03 October 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

The 'belly plate' is just 100mm (or possibly one of those 80mm figures). AFAIK anyway, haven't had to face Ferdi frontally in a while with low pen tank. But it's certainly a weak spot regardless, so 200mm is right out.

Thanks, I've removed the superstructure and lower glacis values until I can get more reliable figures.

kyuu0 #10 Posted 03 October 2011 - 12:50 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 137
  • Member since:
    09-26-2010
The very low front plate can be penetrated 100% of the time with a 167mm pen weapon, so yes, its not 200mm.

The lower plate is so low though, that it can be hidden by nearly every bump and rock on the road.

ZeZergling #11 Posted 03 October 2011 - 03:55 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 356
  • Member since:
    10-03-2011

View Postkyuu0, on 03 October 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

The very low front plate can be penetrated 100% of the time with a 167mm pen weapon, so yes, its not 200mm.

The lower plate is so low though, that it can be hidden by nearly every bump and rock on the road.

Done a bit of testing, and the lower plate appears to be 80mm thick. 92mm pen gun was able to penetrate it about 50% of the time, 101mm pen was able to penetrate most of the time and 112mm pen almost always.

But yeah, the lower plate is pretty hard to hit; at 100 meters half my shots hit the upper plate and bounced or passed underneath the Ferdi and missed entirely!
If I moved closer than 100 meters to hit it more reliably, the slope angle increased enough to make penetrations a lot less common.

Updated the Ferdinand to reflect this, and sections for upper glacis and superstructure. I'm not entirely sure if the superstructure is actually 280mm thick as the XMLs indicate, so if anyone knows how well it does against high pen guns, lemme know!


Ferdinand:

Superstructure = 280mm at 20 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 286mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 283mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 298mm

Driver's Plate = 200mm at 12 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 200mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 200mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 204mm

Upper Glacis = 200mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 250mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 238mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 283mm

Lower Glacis = 80mm at 35 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 90mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 87mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 98mm

kyuu0 #12 Posted 03 October 2011 - 04:10 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 137
  • Member since:
    09-26-2010
I can tell you that a Löwe penetrates it about 66% of the time when youre closer than 100m. (NOT hitting the lower plate, but the plate around the gun, not the mantlet itself)
So as soon as the Löwe looses pen due to shell-travel, the armour bounces most of the time.

I asked for the t28 btw, bcs Löwe doesnt bounce on its armour at all, which is quite sad, bcs with that youre worse in every aspect to a Ferdi.

ZeZergling #13 Posted 03 October 2011 - 05:29 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 356
  • Member since:
    10-03-2011

View Postkyuu0, on 03 October 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

I can tell you that a Löwe penetrates it about 66% of the time when youre closer than 100m. (NOT hitting the lower plate, but the plate around the gun, not the mantlet itself)
So as soon as the Löwe looses pen due to shell-travel, the armour bounces most of the time.

I asked for the t28 btw, bcs Löwe doesnt bounce on its armour at all, which is quite sad, bcs with that youre worse in every aspect to a Ferdi.

Sounds like the superstructure is 200mm thick; the 280mm in the XML is probably the mantlet thickness.

Updated Ferdinand yet again!

Superstructure = 200mm at 20 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 204mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 202mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 213mm

Kwagga #14 Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:33 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 2,062
  • Member since:
    05-23-2011
M48/M103 had elliptic armor casting, not a flat plate. The effective angle should be higher, than nominal.

Nice work though, you beat me to do it. :Smile_great:

RokRoland #15 Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:26 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 1,359
  • Member since:
    10-12-2010

View PostZeZergling, on 03 October 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

WoT's armor values are kinda misleading, as they don't state slope angle, nor is the normalisation mechanic mentioned.
So I calculated the effective armor protection of many WoT tanks, assuming all shots are straight towards the frontal aspect of the tank (no sideways angling).

What you might want to consider is that the tanks that have a huge armor plate on almost zero slope gain the most from angling. E.g. a T-54 might gain a few degrees more to the compound angle by angling his front 20 degrees, while a M6A2 will gain almost all of the 20 degree improvement (effectively 8-12). Though then again at a certain point the sine / cosine function (however you want to count the thickness) adds a lot more to the effective armor for each degree, so I am not entirely certain whether this point it moot by that.

Good work anyway.

ZeZergling #16 Posted 17 October 2011 - 01:13 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 356
  • Member since:
    10-03-2011
Added Object 704, lower glacis for Type 59 and T-54.

Object 704:

Upper Glacis = 120mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 161mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 152mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 187mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm


Type 59:

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm


T-54:

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 176mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 164mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 209mm

ZeZergling #17 Posted 17 October 2011 - 11:23 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 356
  • Member since:
    10-03-2011
Changed T-43:

Upper Glacis = 75mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 110mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 103mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 131mm

Khosrau #18 Posted 17 October 2011 - 11:45 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 473
  • Member since:
    08-13-2011
Nice work, very insightful.

I'm missing the Jagdpanther though. Do you have some figures about that one? I'm very interested because I bought it last weekend.

Also, the Jagdpanzer IV superstructure is 80mm at 0 degrees from vertical? Are you sure about that, because it certainly does not appear that way in the game. It's nicely sloped actually.

Again, thanks for putting this together  :Smile_honoring:

ZeZergling #19 Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:06 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 356
  • Member since:
    10-03-2011

View PostKhosrau, on 17 October 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

Nice work, very insightful.

I'm missing the Jagdpanther though. Do you have some figures about that one? I'm very interested because I bought it last weekend.

Also, the Jagdpanzer IV superstructure is 80mm at 0 degrees from vertical? Are you sure about that, because it certainly does not appear that way in the game. It's nicely sloped actually.

Again, thanks for putting this together  :Smile_honoring:

Thanks, thought the JagdPanzer IV superstructure slope was odd when I first made this, but forgot to check it.
Actually is 50 degrees slope from vertical, so here's the adjusted values, plus Jagdpanther!

I plan on listing mantlet values for TDs sometime soon though, as that is more relevant to TDs than turreted tanks. Doubt I'll be able to provide the effective protection though, as working out mantlet effective protection is just as difficult for TDs as turreted tanks.
Still, the mantlet protection shouldn't be less than the thickness!


Adjusted JagdPanzer IV:

Superstructure = 80mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 108mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 102mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 124mm


Added Jagdpanther:

Upper Glacis = 80mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 117mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 109mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 139mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 55 degrees from vertical (XML only has a 65mm value, so may be thicker in WoT)

Effective protection versus AP = 88mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 82mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 105mm

Khosrau #20 Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:50 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 473
  • Member since:
    08-13-2011
Wow, that was fast. Thanks for the effort!

The Jagdpanzer IV seems actually decently armored for a tier 6, as I suspected. Almost as good as the Jagdpanther. If only it had a more adequate gun, then I would totally love it. What's not to love about this sleek and nimble tankdestroyer with it's good camo and low profile that can bounce a few shots too. Shame about the gun really, hope it will be upgraded someday. I'll be sure to keep it until that day.