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FV207: Real of Fake?

FV207 SPG World of Tanks Artillery Fake

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Tarix819 #1 Posted 06 November 2016 - 12:29 AM

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I'm the kind of person who likes to research the tanks I drive in World of Tanks. I know there are quite a few tanks still in the game as of 9.16 that are completely fake, either because WG doesn't have a fitting replacement, like with the Tier X German SPG, the G.W E 100, or just because 'F*ck you, that's why.' like with the Tier X British Heavy Tank, the FV215b. I recently came across the Tier VIII British SPG, the FV207 and was surprised to find no official evidence of this even being a project whatsoever. 

 

We are told in the game that it was: 'An SPG variant on the basis of the А45 Conqueror. It was planned to mount either a 105-mm, 140-mm, or 152-mm howitzer in a closed armored cabin. The vehicle existed only in blueprints.' This exact quote can be found on Wikipedia, so I have a funny feeling that WG is just bullsh*tting and such a project was never planned.

 

From the game, we can tell that the FV207 is based NOT on the Conqueror chassis, but the FV201 'Universal Tank' chassis, which in World of Tanks is the Tier VII British Premium Heavy Tank, the FV201 (A45). The superstructure also looks way too similar to the superstructure on the FV3805, the Tier IX British SPG, which WAS a real project based on the Centurion chassis, and the prototype is currently in the process of being restored, so I feel like WG just took the superstructure from that vehicle, modified it to fit an FV201 hull, and called it a vehicle. 

 

I can't find any information other than that quote online or anything about the supposed blueprints that this vehicle was drawn up on.

I really want to believe that this was a real project, since I hate fake tanks in the game and can't help it.

 

If I could be linked a website with official information about this project, or even better an image or blueprints, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 


Edited by Tarix819, 06 November 2016 - 12:30 AM.


UrQuan #2 Posted 06 November 2016 - 09:12 AM

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Regarding the FV215b, it seems it's not entirely fake, as according to this, a wooden mockup was built: Conqueror tank (check the variant section), implying there were once upon a time plans for it. That said, i'm sure there were better choices for the British TX heavy tank line then that tank. Edit(it keeps going!): Okay, the TX british heavy is indeed a fake (as highlighted more obviously by leggasiini below); While the TX british FV 215b TD uses the correct hull & gun, the TX british heavy just uses a conqueror hull/turret combo.

 

List of all FV variants, it does list an FV207 SPG, but as it says *Only existed in blueprints*, it might just be someone who edited it in from a WoT source, making it questionnable. Also lists the FV215 with two variants.

That said, the FV listing seems to work like the russian Obj listing, So many weird & crazy designs all bearing a similar tag, so quite sure some projects might not even have left the 'think tank' stage. they got formulated & put on paper, but never even got beyond to an appropriate blueprint/model stage.

 

Edit: found a site with an image of the FV215b: FV200 series Site itself looks a bit questionable. Googling using the image however only brings up russian sites, so can't do much with it, except that there seems to have been a model of it once. Edit2: Found more images of the FV215, but they're all on russian sites & the only non-russian sites with it are WoT pages.

 

Edit3: Can't find anything on the FV207, outside *Existed in blueprints only* which just sound like a copy-paste form WoT info. At least the FV215 tank project looks real. Found info on FV207, see below

 

Edit 4: Finally found an image of the FV215b in an english article: Conqueror Heavy Tank Special (use arrows to flip through the pages)

Direct image link

 

Also, as this is an article published in 1972 & lists the F207 as an SPG (page 22), it's likely that at some point there were plans drawn for it. It also says 'more details, see FV205' Googling this actually gets you several results. Seems the FV205 never got beyond blueprint/small scale model stage.

Seems a more correct name ingame would been FV205 instead of FV207.

FV205 wooden model & small description

Weird thing is, the FV205 mockup model doesn't look anything close to the FV207 WG made ingame, which is odd, as whatever I could find on FV207 that was more then 'existed in blueprints' referred to the FV205 as base model. FV206 & FV207 were variants of FV205 just with bigger guns.

So yes, looks like a made-up WG model, despite tehre being a source to drawn from. That said, the WG model does look like a more playable tank then the fixed case mount shown in spoilers above.


Edited by UrQuan, 06 November 2016 - 05:37 PM.


Tarix819 #3 Posted 06 November 2016 - 11:02 AM

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View PostUrQuan, on 06 November 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

Regarding the FV215b, it seems it's not entirely fake, as according to this, a wooden mockup was built: Conqueror tank (check the variant section), implying there were once upon a time plans for it. That said, i'm sure there were better choices for the British TX heavy tank line then that tank.

 

List of all FV variants, it does list an FV207 SPG, but as it says *Only existed in blueprints*, it might just be someone who edited it in from a WoT source, making it questionnable. Also lists the FV215 with two variants.

That said, the FV listing seems to work like the russian Obj listing, So many weird & crazy designs all bearing a similar tag, so quite sure some projects might not even have left the 'think tank' stage. they got formulated & put on paper, but never even got beyond to an appropriate blueprint/model stage.

 

Edit: found a site with an image of the FV215b: FV200 series Site itself looks a bit questionable. Googling using the image however only brings up russian sites, so can't do much with it, except that there seems to have been a model of it once. Edit2: Found more images of the FV215, but they're all on russian sites & the only non-russian sites with it are WoT pages.

 

Edit3: Can't find anything on the FV207, outside *Existed in blueprints only* which just sound like a copy-paste form WoT info. At least the FV215 tank project looks real.

 

I believe that the FV215b project was the Tier X British Tank Destroyer, the FV215b (183), whereas the Heavy Tank is just an FV215b chassis with a Conqueror's turret mounted on the rear. So I think the Heavy Tank is fake, but I agree with you on that the FV207 might not have left the 'think tank' stage. 

 

The top gun mounted on the FV207 is the Q.F 6 Inch Gun Mk. V, and the stock gun is the BL 5.5 Inch Gun. I researched both guns and found that the 6 Inch Gun is a Naval gun, but found nothing about it being mounted on an artillery piece. Of course, it is entirely possible that the FV207 was supposed to mount the 5.5 inch gun and WG only gave it the 6 Inch to make it more competitive.

 

Here's a quote from wikipedia: 'No variants entered service although the UK developed two self-propelled versions to prototype stage. The first in 1945 used the Crusader gun tractor (developed from the Crusader tank to tow 17 pounder anti-tank guns). It was a turretless design with no casemate. The second, FV3805, in the 1950s used a Centurion tank carriage, the gun being in a barbette mounting in a fully enclosed casemate.'

 

This article is referring to the Tier VII and IX British SPGs, the Crusader 5.5 inch SP and the FV3805. No mention of the FV207, which leads me to believe WG have stretched the truth a little bit about the FV207.

 

Thanks for your reply



UrQuan #4 Posted 06 November 2016 - 11:14 AM

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View PostTarix819, on 06 November 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

This article is referring to the Tier VII and IX British SPGs, the Crusader 5.5 inch SP and the FV3805. No mention of the FV207, which leads me to believe WG have stretched the truth a little bit about the FV207.

 

Thanks for your reply

 

Did some deeper digging & found the FV207 is likely a subsection of the FV205 project (see my edit4 response above), so at least the british army shares the russian army approach to listing things (FV projects = Obj projects); so, not totally fake, but truth stretching was certainly involved. Naming it FV205 instead of FV207 would make it more correct.

Edit: Kay, WG seems to have made up their variant of the FV207 as it looks like nothing to the FV205 which is the basis of it.

Regarding the FV215b listing, the article lists it as a 'heavy anti tank SP, so it was indeed designed as a Tank Destroyer/SPG, not a tank combat vehicle. So yus, WG made an error in placing it as a heavy tank. Note designation seems to be an amalgan for what would be a combo of SPG/TD, not that odd, several tank projects by various nations had a similar thing going, where tanks could fulfill this dual purpose (most famous would be the (I)SU-152 tanks in russian line)

 

Also: I stop with the edits now, think I found what was asked.


Edited by UrQuan, 06 November 2016 - 11:26 AM.


Tarix819 #5 Posted 06 November 2016 - 02:37 PM

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Thank you for clearing that up. It's greatly appreciated.

leggasiini #6 Posted 06 November 2016 - 02:41 PM

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View PostUrQuan, on 06 November 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

 

 

Regarding the FV215b listing, the article lists it as a 'heavy anti tank SP, so it was indeed designed as a Tank Destroyer/SPG, not a tank combat vehicle. So yus, WG made an error in placing it as a heavy tank. Note designation seems to be an amalgan for what would be a combo of SPG/TD, not that odd, several tank projects by various nations had a similar thing going, where tanks could fulfill this dual purpose (most famous would be the (I)SU-152 tanks in russian line)

 

Also: I stop with the edits now, think I found what was asked.

 

The 120mm FV215B NEVER was proposed or something. The article keeps referring to the one we have in-game as "FV215b 183". The tier X TD what we have now was actually called just as FV 215b. Conqueror with rear turret, aka what we have in-the game as tier 10 HT, is complete WG fake.

Edited by leggasiini, 06 November 2016 - 02:41 PM.


UrQuan #7 Posted 06 November 2016 - 05:32 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 06 November 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

 

The 120mm FV215B NEVER was proposed or something. The article keeps referring to the one we have in-game as "FV215b 183". The tier X TD what we have now was actually called just as FV 215b. Conqueror with rear turret, aka what we have in-the game as tier 10 HT, is complete WG fake.

 

Took a closer look to how they looked ingame (I always assumed prior to this that they had the same models) and indeed, you're correct, the TD has it's own distinctive hull & turret, which even looks similar to the wooden mockup (the boxes!), while the TX heavy is fabricated from a Conqueror hull/turret as you point out & that indeed takes it in the realm of fake; (I was less bothered about the gun, non-proposed guns have been on tanks ever since the game started)

Saddens me & now I get alot better why alot of folks are so dissappointed in the british TX heavy tank. At the very minimum, they could have reused the TD variant hull/turret, so it would been closer to a proposed tank (and yus, 120mm gun was never proposed for this hull, there was an AVRE variant proposed for it, no more info on that (but that are totally different guns & in WoT they'll likely be modelled as howitzer/derp guns)

 


Edited by UrQuan, 06 November 2016 - 05:32 PM.


rsanders5 #8 Posted 07 November 2016 - 11:03 PM

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View PostUrQuan, on 06 November 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

 

Took a closer look to how they looked ingame (I always assumed prior to this that they had the same models) and indeed, you're correct, the TD has it's own distinctive hull & turret, which even looks similar to the wooden mockup (the boxes!), while the TX heavy is fabricated from a Conqueror hull/turret as you point out & that indeed takes it in the realm of fake; (I was less bothered about the gun, non-proposed guns have been on tanks ever since the game started)

Saddens me & now I get alot better why alot of folks are so dissappointed in the british TX heavy tank. At the very minimum, they could have reused the TD variant hull/turret, so it would been closer to a proposed tank (and yus, 120mm gun was never proposed for this hull, there was an AVRE variant proposed for it, no more info on that (but that are totally different guns & in WoT they'll likely be modelled as howitzer/derp guns)

 

 

Or they could have just put the Chieftain in the game as the TX heavy





Also tagged with FV207, SPG, World of Tanks, Artillery, Fake

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