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Is T26E5 Patriot breaking the game?

T26E5 E5 USA Heavy Medium

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FireStickCZ #1 Posted 13 November 2016 - 01:03 PM

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Hello tankers, I want to analyze the T26E5 in detail and get into conclusion if it is overpowered or not.

(Sorry for bad English :D)

 

(Version 9.16 - 9.20.1)

 

Gun performance:

 

240 alpha damage - Quite bad alpha damage, but the good DPM makes up for it

 

230 mm of penetration - Very, VERY good penetration for a tier 8 tank (even better than IS-3)

 

2090 DPM - The best DPM on any tier 8 heavy/medium tank with 90mm gun (R.I.P Caernarvon and Centurion mk.1)

 

0.36 accuracy - Not bad for a heavy tank, same accuracy as Pershing and much better than T32 and IS-3

 

Tank performance:

 

250 mm - 400 mm of turret armor - That is insanely strong, not as strong as T32, but still enought to bounce most tier 9 tanks

 

10 degrees of gun depresion - American classic, go hulldown and laugh at enemy

 

200 mm of hull armor WITHOUT ANY WEAKSPOTS - This is really good hull armor, tier 6s and 7s tanks have no chance to penetrate it frontally at all

 

30 degrees per second hull traverse speed - Good luck flanking this thing

 

40 km/h top speed and very good power to weight ratio - This is very fast for a heavy tank, almost a speed of medium

 

390 m of view range - This view range is better than most heavy tanks and medium tanks too

 

Camo rating - It is surprsisingly good for heavy tank, but problably same as T32

 

Conclusion:

T26E5 is one of the best tier 8 tank, and it is also a PREMIUM TANK

The armor is sick as it has literally no weak spot at all and the turret armor is nearly inpenetrable even by higher tiers.

For the amount of armor it has it is really fast and flexible. (Just like T110E5 before it got nerfed)

The gun has very high penetration and DPM, unlike other heavy potato guns it has very good gun hanlding as well.

 

However, even though it is incredibly good tank, it is still not as good as IS-3, therefore it is not overpowered

 

But if it is not overpowered, why did I write this post? Well, lets compare it to other tier 8 tanks:

 

T26E5 vs T32

+++ Better DPM, penetration and accuracy

+ Better hull armor without weakspots

+ Faster

- Slightly worse side turret armor and turret armor against tier 10s

 

T26E5 vs Löwe

++ Has 400 better DPM

++ Way faster and better flexibility

++ Better hull armor and turret armor (Löwe-buffed armor in v. 9.17)

+ Does not have weakspots

- Worse accuracy (but better aim time)

 

T26E5 vs Caernarvon

+ Better hull armor and turret armor (Caernarvon-buffed turret armor in v. 9.20.1)

+ Better DPM (Caernarvon-buffed alpha damage from 230 to 280 in v. 9.20.1)

+ Much faster

- Worse accuracy

 

T26E5 vs VK 45.02 (P) aufs. A

++ Better hull armor and turret armor

++ Better DPM and penetration

+ Better gun depresion

+ Smaller size and better camo

 

T26E5 vs T34

++ Has 400 better DPM

++ Way faster and better flexibility

++ Much better gun handling (T34-buffed gun handling from 0.32 to 0.28 in 9.17, but it is still TERRIBLE compared to Patriots 0.20)

+ Better hull armor

++ Better view range (T34-buffed view range from 360 to 380 in 9.17)

- Worse alpha

 

T26E5 vs Centurion mk.1

+ Better hull armor and turret armor (Centurion mk.1-buffed turret armor in v. 9.20.1)

+ Better DPM (Centurion mk. 1-reload time buffed in 9.17.1, still has worse DPM than Patriot though)

- Worse accuracy

- Slower (Centurion mk. 1-top speed buffed from 40 km/h to 50 km/h in 9.17.1)

 

T26E5 vs Chieftain/T95

++ Better hull armor and turret armor

++ Better DPM and penetration

 

T26E5 vs FV202 (P)

++ Better hull armor and turret armor

++ So much faster (FV202 (P)-buffed top speed from 35km/h to 40km/h in 9.17)

++ Way better DPM

- Worse accuracy

- Slower (FV202 (P)-top speed buffed from 40 km/h to 50 km/h in 9.17.1)

 

T26E5 vs T54 mod. 1

++ So much better penetration

++ So much better view range (T54 mod 1 buffed view range from 360 m to 380 m in 9.20, but it's stil worse than Patriot's 390 m vew range)

+ Better view range (heavy tank having more view range then medium? why not right?)

+ Better turret armor (T54 mod 1 buffed turret armor in 9.20)

+ Better gun depresion

+ Better gun handling (T54 mod 1 buffed gun handling in 9.20) 

- Slightly slower and worse camo

- Worse turret armor

 

T26E5 vs Panther II and Panther 8.8 (both of them are quite bad)

++ Better hull armor and turret armor

+ Better penetration

+ Better gun depresion

+ Faster acceleration (Panther 8.8-buffed engine power in 9.17)

- Worse accuracy

 

T26E5 vs T-34-2 (also a crap tank)

++ So much better hull armor

++ So much better penetration

++ Much better gun depresion

++ Better DPM and accuracy

-- Worse speed and camo

 

T26E5 vs TVP VTU (they have same size)

++ Better hull armor and turret armor

++ Better DPM and penetration

+ Better gun depresion

- Worse speed

 

As you can see, T26E5 is another new tank which powercreeps the old ones. But this is much worse situation, because it is a PREMIUM TANK. (Just like Skorpion G: http://forum.worldof...-g-overpowered/)

 

Why should someone play T32 with it's potato gun when they can buy a T26E5, which is much better tank that can also make credits and give crew training? If you pay, you get more benefits.

BTW if you buy T26E5 for clan wars and stronghold, you will have huge advantage over the clans which only use T32. 

 

Some players have bought already premium tanks like T34, T54 mod. 1 or Lowe, but now they are selling a brand new premium tank which is better in every aspect and makes their premium tank look like junk, How should they feel about it?

 

Also if we compare it to AMX M4 mle.49 Libetré, it is much worse than T26E5!

AMX M4 Liberté has worse DPM, worse gun handling, worse turret armor, worse speed, worse camo, and worse view range. The only real advantage is better hull armor, that is all. How can they sell two tanks, one of which is superior, at the same time???

 

Write your opinion down below guys. :D

 

[Edit 22.11.2016] Thank you SirFoch for great video about the powercreep, well said

 

 

Here is QuickyBaby's opinion on T26E5:

https://clips.twitch...ntelopeDeExcite from his stream on 22.11.2016 (full video: https://www.twitch.t...aby/v/102692475 )

Even QuickyBaby says it is overpowered, so yeah. GG guys:D

 

[Edit 14.12.2016] Version 9.17

Good job Wargaming, you buffed some premium tanks, so they can be at least a bit more competitive: https://youtu.be/DEb_1UWBBGo?t=4m48s

However, T34 and Lowe still have crap DPM and FV202 with Panther 8.8 still have worse armor than T26E5, they don't have any significant advantage. Also you forgot about normal tanks and T54 mod. 1...

But I appreciate your effort. :)

 

[Edit 22.2.2017] Version 9.17.1

Centurion mk. 1 and FV202 (P) top speed was increased to 50 km/h, which means they are now faster than T26E5 Patriot. Even though Centurion still has much worse armor, it is now closer to Patriot because of slight DPM buff and better mobility. FV202 (P) is still inferior though...

VK 45.02 (P) Ausf. A received some gun depresion buff to 8 degrees and upper plate armor buff, but it is still meaningless compared to Patriot.  Panther II received a new gun, but it is a just a little more accurate with 230 penetration, while has worse DPM...

So yeah, T26E5 Patriot is still the best premium tank in the game... :sceptic: 

Oh wait, there is new russian premium tank named Object 252U???

Congratulations! You managed to balance powercreeping premium tank with another powercreeping premium tank. :facepalm:

 

[Edit 24.3.2017] QuickyBaby has told his opinion about Patriot on YouTube:

 

[Edit 29.8.2017] Version 9.20

After 1 year, T-54 mod. 1 is finally getting buffed

After version 9.20, T26E5 Patriot still has better penetration, gun depresion and view range, but now T-54 mod 1 has slightly better gun handling and turret armor + litte speed difference.

Even after buffs however, T-54 mod 1 still suffers from having low penetration and it is not very competitive against higher tiers, but now it is at least statistically more compareable against Patriot.

 

[Edit 1.9.2017] SirCircon playing T26E5, dealt 3000 damage and 6 kills just in 5 minutes, tier 9 MM

 

[Edit 19.10.2017] Version 9.20.1

This update comes with buffs to british tanks. All of them, including Centurion mk1 and Caernarvon recieved turret armor buff, making them just as strong as Pariot's turret. (maybe stronger)

Other than that, Caernarvon got buffed alpha damage from tragic 230 to amazing 280 alpha, while its rate of fire stayed the same.

This means that Caernarvon went from 1800 DPM to 2700 DPM. That is more DPM than tier 10 E50M!

 

Well, considering that most of tier 8 tanks have less DPM than tier 4 M3 Lee, but Caernarvon has more DPM than tier 10 tank,

Caernarvon with its good accuracy and penetration combined with buffed turret amor and DPM is now one of the best tier 8 heavies. (Maybe too strong btw. :sceptic:)

 

Now I want to talk about T26E5 Patriot 

As you can see, this post is 1 year old. During this time, Wargaming has buffed most of tanks that Patriot had powercreeped (R.I.P T32 though).

Also Patriot's value has been lowered because of the matchmaking where it constanly meets tier 10 tanks.

In conclusion, now in late 2017, Patriot is still a very strong tank and it is still better than most other tanks on tier 8, but it is not as powerful and "overpowered" as it was before in 2016, when it could literally outclass every other medium and heavy tank on tier 8. :bajan:


Edited by FireStickCZ, 19 October 2017 - 06:37 PM.


leggasiini #2 Posted 13 November 2016 - 01:17 PM

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Forgot to mention that T26E5 is also cheaper because reasons

 

T34 does have better pen tho, but yeah. That being said, T34 needs a buff anyway because its powercreeped and has outdated stats. Its possibly last tier 8 premium remaining that follows old rule "prems are better than stock but worse than elite tanks", since Löwe is also getting buffed too.



MR_FIAT #3 Posted 13 November 2016 - 02:00 PM

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you forgot to mention that the caern has godlike gun handling being best in class, but yea i am tired of WG only releasing tier 8 prems these days... i want some usefull lower tier crew trainers dammit. 

scsaba001 #4 Posted 14 November 2016 - 06:29 PM

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I agree 100%. But it isn't the first OP premium issued by WG lately. It all started with the Berlin trio and the Rudy and since that time one premium comes after the other that is at least as good or better than most non-premiums (at least older ones due to planned power creep). It's obviously the result of a conscious decision. The decision made by WG to make WoT an openly Pay to Win Game. Well, WoT was always secretely Pay To Win to some extent, but WG at least tried to hide and deny this, and at least did give some chance for those who payed less but played more to perform well if they were REALLY good. Now it's over. WoT is openly Pay to Win now. WG doesn't even try to hide it anymore, to the contrary: they are boasting about it! Well, at least it's more fair for new players, but for the old player base who already spent lots of time and effort unlocking good tanks that have become crapin the meantime due to continuous power creep and more and more OP premiums, it's most unfair. It's no wonder that old players are abandoning this game at an alarming rate, but WG obviously doesn't give a crap... At least not until there are still enough new 8-year olds who'd stolen the credit cards of their fathers... JUST WATCH SOUTH PARK SEASON 18 EPISODE 6: "FREEMIUM ISN'T FREE", IT'S ALL ABOUT WOT ACTUALLY! :)

pihip #5 Posted 16 November 2016 - 02:08 PM

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I don't consider it OP because of the anemic alpha, which is already average for meds, and pretty pathetic for a heavy. Then again, T26E5 is a slow armored medium, not a 'true' heavy tank, so for its intended role 240 per shell is probably enough.

Otherwise, it is more or less a Pershing that traded mobility and some soft stats for more armor and penetration.

Grimwing #6 Posted 19 November 2016 - 12:06 AM

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As E 25 is no longer purchasable I'm thinking of buying this tank. I also see it has great potential, but what about the AMX M4 49? I guess it's only strong in the front, but otherwise bigger than the T26E5 which means it can be flanked and penned easier. The T26E5 seems to be pretty solid on paper, also I agree it seems to be more OP than anything else in the tier 8 premium department currently.

P.S.: WG please bring back the E 25 as a one day sale in the Xmas period, my wallet is ready lol.

_Sentinel_ #7 Posted 19 November 2016 - 01:03 PM

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[edited]WG, WTF have you done? At least give it some weak spots.

mynameispuffs #8 Posted 19 November 2016 - 01:08 PM

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It cant be that overpowered considering every time someone sees me in it, they just double tap 2 and go straight through the turret

MystiqueII #9 Posted 19 November 2016 - 01:30 PM

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The t26e5 is not overpowered in my opinion, the armour is great against tier 6-7 tanks but at 8-10 tiers the tanks start to pen the front hull and turret quite easily. The penetration and dpm are great but the accuracy is quite bad often especially at longer range. It's a great tank, not op. Bad tankers can't get 2-5k damage with it on almost every battle.

Edited by MystiqueII, 19 November 2016 - 01:30 PM.


ZitPie #10 Posted 19 November 2016 - 03:56 PM

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It's a good tank, but in no way shape or form is it overpowered.

juonimies #11 Posted 19 November 2016 - 05:06 PM

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View Post_Sentinel_, on 19 November 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

[edited]WG, WTF have you done? At least give it some weak spots.

 

 

That won't be happening. Looks like War"gaming" has run out of money so it has to offer OP tanks with extra prize? HAHAHAAHAH



250swb #12 Posted 20 November 2016 - 03:43 AM

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I have both the Patriot and the Liberte and the Liberte is the only one that can have a good time in a t10 game. 

Sgt_Daddy #13 Posted 20 November 2016 - 11:26 AM

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T26E5 in top tier MM has only two real enemys. Other T26E5 tank or arty. 

5_InchFl0ppy #14 Posted 20 November 2016 - 11:47 AM

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I own one and I don't think it is OP at all. The accuracy of the gun is pretty dreadful tbh so you absolutely have to fight at close range. It also has issues with the standard APCR ammo penning anything that isn't flat.

 

That's not to say it's a bad tank though. I have only played few games and I was getting royally screwed by the MM. Out of the 15 games I played, at least 75% were tier 10 complete with very one sided results.

 

It also isn't a hard counter to the noob mobile IS-3 horde like the M49 is.

 

 



jopi_oettlul #15 Posted 20 November 2016 - 01:06 PM

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It's not op at all....i'm doing far worse with it than amx m4 49...44% winrate opposed to 65%....it gets ammoracked with every hit on the side...repairkit?....yeah!..next hit get you ammoracked again..hulldown?...don't make me laugh....i was just hulldown against a t9 chinese heavy....he shot me rightaway twice in the cupola and i was from full health down to 25% health...game over!!...it cannot perform well in a t9 or t10 fight unless you stay wayyyy behind and because of inaccuracy of gun you're not hitting anything...besides that...doing 240dmg a shot and recieving 300 or 400 dmg back puts you out of business quick too...it's not the brawling tank like they say it is....7 out of 10 fights is t9 or t10 so i'm actually really sorry i bought it...the new amx is far more fun....that's just the opinion of a mediocre average player and indeed you have to play it keeping in mind not to get hit...so you stay in the back and get bored with this tank

Ironbyron #16 Posted 20 November 2016 - 01:37 PM

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[edited]


Edited by BigBadVuk, 20 November 2016 - 10:42 PM.
This post has been moderated by Wg staff member due to inappropriate content


FluffyRedFox #17 Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:32 PM

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View PostIronbyron, on 20 November 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

[edited]

:girl:

 

Imo if this thing is able to have a good turret with a good hull without weakspots, the Caern should get its lower plate weakspot removed as well, but that'll never happen.


Edited by BigBadVuk, 20 November 2016 - 10:43 PM.


FireStickCZ #18 Posted 20 November 2016 - 08:14 PM

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OMG guys have you even read the post? I said that T26E5 is worse than IS-3, so it is NOT overpowered

Just like you guys say, it is just an above average tank, but there are so many worse tanks which needs some buffs to even be playable. The question is, why did WG add this premium tank which totally powercreeps them?

 

[Edit 22.11.2016] I had to change the title post from "Is T26E5 Patriot overpowered?" to "Is T26E5 Patriot breaking the game?" because apparently most people did not read my full post :facepalm:


Edited by FireStickCZ, 22 November 2016 - 04:25 PM.


_Sentinel_ #19 Posted 21 November 2016 - 06:15 AM

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This tank is a worse all around tank than IS-3, but it's also more game breaking in some ways. The IS-3 at least has armor layout and some frontal weakspots, which allow tier 7 and even some tier 6 tanks to penetrate it frontally. Say a Tiger can penetrate an IS-3 easilly from the front without spamming gold ammo. Not the same with the patriot though.

 

TL DR: It's not a stronger tank, it also brakes the game but in a different way.


Edited by _Sentinel_, 21 November 2016 - 06:27 AM.


vonadnan #20 Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:14 AM

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OP went a bit too far with comparison, but yeah it does seem to be like that, introducing premium tanks with crazy good stats, that french also has very very solid frontal armor..and with map design these days.. 





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