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Video: Explaining Mechanics - Penetration


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ChestyMorgan #21 Posted 06 January 2017 - 05:22 PM

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Award to the person behind the video for efforts in defending a retarded system. Do they honestly believe it is how things should be? Any pen system that sees an ELC AMX bounce an 88 AP round is pathetic.



Cobra6 #22 Posted 06 January 2017 - 06:00 PM

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View PostSchmeksiman, on 06 January 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

 

And the higher the tier, the bigger the difference between penetration rolls which is honestly counter-intuitive.

 

View Postkreso03, on 06 January 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

 

Yeah, rolling from 150 to 250 on T32 makes no sense when you have to penetrate IS-3 frontally.
One can only hope they will replace it with something like absolute system, 30-30 for all tiers.

 

 

Yeah the RNG on penetration needs to be set to about 10% deviation to make things a bit more predictable and less idiotic.

 

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Andrei_HAM #23 Posted 06 January 2017 - 08:10 PM

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Propaganda video...when that day comes and the god of RNG steps in you could shoot with laser beams...some tanks are made of adamantium. If server decides what kind of team you have, what kind of map you play (where are the old maps anyway ?! ?!), super lags and most important when you penetrate the broad side of the paper tank in front of you...maybe the server should play instead of you from the start. I hardly recommend an automated bot system that replace players when all those circumstances above are met in one game. The real human player is useless...it feels like the main feature of the game is  the "start button".   

_Panzer_X #24 Posted 06 January 2017 - 08:28 PM

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Milles excuses pour avoir offensés certaines dames du forum, en fait je me trompais, ce jeu n'est pas devenu trop réaliste , il est en fait PIRE que la réalité vu que la capacité à faire du dégât d'un équipage augmente avec l'expérience ainsi que sa précision dans la vraie vie, mais là le RNG archi caca-boudin se charge de tout [edited]en l'air , tu peux avoir un équipage 6 skills , tu as passé des années à calculer en ton for intérieur la microseconde ou tu sais que tu pourra tirer et faire du dégât , rien à faire , RNG s'arrangera pour que ton tir finisse soit en ricochet soit rate sa cible de 50 mètres, ....que les pleurnicheuses ne se privent d'agrémenter mon com, je suis déjà parti en vacances, bonne nuit beaux rêves, mes vacances ont commencé:) 

 



SSempty #25 Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:43 PM

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View Postcowtapult1, on 06 January 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

Wonder why u need make false vids ? U are in such money issues u need lie more about game mechanics?

 

Lets see hwo it actually work.

 

U can have 100 or les mm armor and be bounced head on from close range (0-50 meters) by monster shells like one from jgpze100 or fv.  And we are talking about head on shots in frontal armor.

 

Or u can be shot for example in bat chat from close range in back of your turret and bounced.

 Same with amx 13-90.

 

This is something u fucked up on purpose as u made code rigging every battle. 

 

First thing u do is u have mm which is completely fucked up and coders making it should be shot on sight.

For example u get one team with 10-12 meds and tds (usualy there is or 1-2 heavy tanks in low tier with 1- 2 lights) and other team gets up to 10 heavies 1 td and 1 med in top tier 1-2 lights and few more tds or meds in low tier. So teams ae unbalanced completely.

Ofc team with shitload of meds and tds is filled with players ranging from 1800 wn8 and over  and other team is best player approx 1700 wn8 and rest are averae of 900 wn8 *yes its pathetic.

 

What happens is next  - u can have perfect shots on enemy tanks that will bounce or just be ignored by server. There are holes on tanks - frontal armor / hatch/ back of tank but even in game battle results there wll be empty space next to it as server just decided it cant be killed. Its called RNG. Your team gets 2-3 tanks being amo racked with frst hit and at least one more burns to death as both shels he was shot from 300 meters turn him on fire and he is shot for example in turret both times.

 

If there is soemthing unexpected going on in battle - and it usually does as those bots in first team are usually sniping and have no clue how to play close combat - so your team starts wrecking them server and RNG turn into 5th gear rigging battle and suddenly enemy tanks start dissapearing while they drive in full speed on open ground in front of u (for whole team they just dissapear) on 50-100 meters and nothing in btw to block view , not even bush, and when u hit em u bounce no matter how good shots are placed. U can have tank literaly coming over hill on u exposing his bottom plate fully and u can bounce him from 90 degree angle (and u pen him always from head on shot in bottom plate  under steep angle) as server DECIDED SO. It happens because SERVER is rigging all it can. Gives tanks basic immunity for short period of time, makes enemy team worst possible rng for short periods of time and similar. 

 

So what is written about game mechanics is pure crap. In game u have for each tank stats - tehy play crap. If server decided u are to be killed with first shot that is it u cant do anything about it. There are rare occasions where u manage to beat server and its because players in enemy team simply [edited]up things completely. They crash, drown, ram into heavy tanks with meds and die. Or they not manage to use server boost period as they are scared to play offensive way and then  tehy die in end. But its rare occasion as battles usually last 3-4 mins even in tier 10s cause most players are idiots in terms of tactics, map / tank knowledge and basic play skil.

 

So plz if u want to make things as u put on vid u first need remove current battle rigging lines of code so we are all equal in game and pure skill  comes to play.

 

Simpliest of all is to decline server ability to make your under 100 meter range shot disperse more then its stated in garage for gun. If it ca disperse .35m on 100 meter range there is no way for shell to drop in ground half way towards tank or fly wild over it. Fix those things first as they are all from RETARD MM and RNG CODE which always favours one of teams.

 

haha i have the same tanks except lowe,,,and managed some good games with them...so lets see some examples:

E100 vs IS7,,,,4 hits in the front of the IS,,,all go in and its down to 100ish hp...then 4 shots same spot bounce or didnt go thru

E75 vs RHM/FCM 50T,,,bounce off rhm and we didnt penetrate FCM back of turret...

AMX 75 90 vs E25...following an badly dmgd e25 all around map...shot him a few times and all bounced from behind, when suddenly it dissapears and a few moment later appear behind me

T28 prot...ambush position in a wide open field (fiery salient map) didnt spot anything untill 4 heavys were on my broadside

RHM...critically hitting for 0 (!!!) dmg t5-t8 scouts...most fd up was a leopard light in the side

AT15....the skorpion G can pen the AT15 frontally with all shots regardless of distance...same with the t9 leopard med

Jpanther 2,,,rng decides that i cant kill some tanks even they are low hp at close range...didnt pen a bc25 AP, a jpanther but i can put down a maus or e100 with ease

 

and this are only some examples...and about the MM dont even get me started...playin t5-t10 so ive seen what mm does to ya...playin arty gettin city maps...playn t28 gettin field mapes with min 3 artys and about the tier difference....LKV103...in t8 games or the VK30.01H in t8 games is just a bit retarded...even if u are the best player in the world u cant do crapin this kind of games

WG has issues they need to sort them out that a fact....

 



malachi6 #26 Posted 07 January 2017 - 09:23 AM

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View PostSSempty, on 06 January 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

so....what i did understand from the video is that u shouldn't critically hit a leopard light tank with the rhm borsing...

 

What you should have got from the video is, that it is perfectly possible to get a non damaging critical hit.  Perhaps you should watch it again?

KillMechanism #27 Posted 07 January 2017 - 11:54 AM

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Great article WG - if only skill mattered in WOT. It turns out that the game is server rigged, meaning that the WG server manipulate the accuracy of your shots and the visibility i.e. what you can see. Probably to protect new players. I already knew that the MM was rigged and don't mind that too much. But finding out that the accuracy of your shots is manipulated by the server to make a certain team win is a great disappointment to me. WOT will never be an e-sport. It is just a game and enjoy it as such . If you get 'too skilled' you and your team will be nerfed by the server in game. It rather turns me off the game I must admit. See the below quote. RNG is the calculation of the accuracy of your shots. I am disappointed - how do you feel?

 

"Here is a quote taken from a WG developer where he states that skill has no effect on the overall outcome of the game, the outcomes are simply rigged using RNG.

“One part of the game is RNG itself, whoever thinks that (they) can win based only on skill will not triumph (in) the game, RNG is what gives the ability to a regular player to outscore a rampaging player, likewise, it’s the same RNG that allows a player to become a Monster itself, but they don’t realize it until it’s taken from them” 

See the full text of the article here: http://ftr.wot-news..../0...-skill-mm/"

 

From http://lightquick.co...ker-rigged.html

 

 

 


Edited by KillMechanism, 07 January 2017 - 11:55 AM.


kreso03 #28 Posted 07 January 2017 - 02:24 PM

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View PostKillMechanism, on 07 January 2017 - 11:54 AM, said:

Spoiler

From http://lightquick.co...ker-rigged.html

 

 

 

 

Someone actually devoted page on website, just to show how bad he is at interpreting statistics.
Congratulations. 5/7.

 

And cogrants to you KillMechanism, for using FTR to showcase that game is rigged, yet that post was talking why skill MM wouldn't work.


PS: Just a quote which gave me all I needed to know of OP of that post.

Spoiler
Spoiler

 

 



KillMechanism #29 Posted 07 January 2017 - 05:32 PM

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Nice Kreos03 - you work at WG by any chance?

Linux_Pingviini #30 Posted 07 January 2017 - 06:15 PM

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Whatever. I've been thinking seriously. Turning to play Armored Warfare.

 

Wot is irritating/annoy. SPG tank battle RNG is really too high and with the enemy face-to-face battle is laughable / ridiculous / preposterous / absurd / derisory / ludicrous.

 

Edit:

I am now two days playing Armored Warfare and have to tell you that it is good.  SPG was a bit disappointing: ammo fly to shallow arc. Arc elevation of less than 45 °.  But surprise: SPG also serves as a TD (Tank Destroyers).

 


Edited by Linux_Pingviini, 11 January 2017 - 10:20 PM.


O_verdose #31 Posted 08 January 2017 - 03:45 AM

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So, let me get this straight, the server is able to calculate in battle all that shyte (and there are thousands of battles at the same time) but when it comes to mm the server suddenly becomes utterly incompetent and it will take too long to produce balanced teams in terms of tiers, armor and arty.... at least that's what WG said about changing the mm system.

 

It is my opinion as a software engineer this is an attempt (a pathethic one) to explain the retarded things that happen during the game and are mostly due to sub-standard developers....

 

As always, remember ppl, if you are looking for quality - turn to the western part of the world.

 

 


Edited by O_verdose, 08 January 2017 - 09:51 AM.


Dylan_swe #32 Posted 08 January 2017 - 08:30 AM

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hahhhahhhahhaahha, what a laugh. "If you hit at a right angle".

So you mean that the upper "glacies" on a.....say e100 is penetrable if you shoot at it at a right angle?

LOL LOL LOL, that is bull crap.

 

The only rule that applies to WOT is: if you hit a weakspot, you can pen, if there is no weakspot, you will bounce.

 

I have hit top of tank hulls so many times, at perfect angles, where real world consequence would be pen straight into engine, but instead 0-damage bounce.

 

Like the above mentioned "shoot at E100 when situated ABOVE his tank shooting down on his 90-degree perfectly flat armor and bounce"

 

I will keep laughing at you until the WHOLE tank is penetrable, not just weakspots.



Eaglax #33 Posted 08 January 2017 - 09:57 AM

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pls WG put those guides into the game itself, e.g. a new "guide" or "tutorial"-button in the hangar. It's nice that you start doing real guides after WOT is more then 5 years old, but most "casual" players, which would profit the most, will most likely never see them, especially in a few days when the announcement can't be seen anymore on the start-page.

iSimona #34 Posted 08 January 2017 - 01:24 PM

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I understand nothing

Cryphisss #35 Posted 08 January 2017 - 03:14 PM

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Quality editing and very informative. Thanks WG!

nokis231 #36 Posted 08 January 2017 - 04:02 PM

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Too much math!

m1x_angelico #37 Posted 08 January 2017 - 07:43 PM

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Great video! Congrats to the team behind it.

 

I just fell you need a PhD in physics and mathematics to understand the mechanics and apply it in game.



tomolone #38 Posted 08 January 2017 - 11:06 PM

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View Postkreso03, on 06 January 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

 

Yeah, rolling from 150 to 250 on T32 makes no sense when you have to penetrate IS-3 frontally.
One can only hope they will replace it with something like absolute system, 30-30 for all tiers.

 

That means certain tanks can roll for 0 or even -something pen.Wont work.

NikToo #39 Posted 09 January 2017 - 12:02 AM

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There are three things which are screwing up this game and making it into just an arcade shooter:

-Super mediums which zoom around the battlefield at impossible speeds, making kamikaze runs because they know they have about 800mm turret armour.

-Autoloaders. For some reason, some tanks get nerfed because of "historical accuracy", whereas autoloaders don't, or they'd take about 45 minutes to reload. Giving autoloaders the option to zoom up, take a hit and then put 4000 dmg in your backside while you reload is simply stupid. Autoloaders don't work like that in reality and they shouldn't have become the veritable machine guns they are in the game, especially the AMX 13-90. No human could sit inside a tank like that, going over bumpy ground and somehow operate a tank, much less shoot accurately.

-Paper TDs. Getting yourself slapped around in a Jagdtiger by a Grille 15 is no fun, seeing as one was real and one not. Being able to slap whatever arbitrary stats onto a non-existent tank has really hurt this game. Why not put a 300 mm naval gun on a hovertank and really go for it? Skorpions, Objekts, WTFs (as I call them), all imaginary supertanks which if they had been so brilliant would have been produced.

 

Biggest of the three are the autoloaders though. Absolutely ruined the game and I'm never surprised when I see them doing 4-5000 dmg in a game while I sit there in a nerfed Centurion wondering where that Bat Chat came from.

 

Edit: case in point, just played my T9 Pershing against a B-C 25 t AP. He spots me, tracks me AND does about 400 dmg in the first shot. Then I can get two shots off while he shoots a total of five, missing one and somehow leaving me with 134 HP out 1700, while I knock him for about 800 in two shots. How is that even remotely fair? How do you even compete against that? Hide? Sit in the corner and let the autoloaders hammer it out between themselves and then go in and hope there's anyone left? The damage of the autoloaders simply must be nerfed to about 250. If two tanks, one single-shot and one autoloader each have the same time to shoot at each other, it should be an equal amount of damage, so either two shots for 800 or four shots for 800, not four shots for 1600. Or decrease the accuracy something chronic, so four shots but they'll go all over the place. Something must be done, but it won't. Simple as.

 

</rant>


Edited by NikToo, 09 January 2017 - 12:17 AM.


kreso03 #40 Posted 09 January 2017 - 12:57 AM

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View Posttomolone, on 08 January 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

That means certain tanks can roll for 0 or even -something pen.Wont work.

 

That was an example, of course such thing would be silly.
Right one would be something like... linear with c, or maybe even squared root or logarithmic? So that increases from start, but barely.

Maybe something along the lines:
Tier 1: +-10
Tier 5: +-20

Tier 10: +-25

Numbers are here just to showcase that biggest difference percentage wise would be at lower tiers.






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