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Emil 1 and 2 waaay too OP


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Gremlin182 #61 Posted 29 January 2018 - 07:01 AM

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Tough when played well but one glance at them in tanks GG and you can see why they are not OP or anything like it.

Emil 1 frontally very strong, but from the side 30mm hull and 30mm back half of the turret.

Emil 2 exactly the same but 60mm and the tier 10 70mm.

 

Good players will only show you the front of the turret or if forced the front of the hull.

They have to the rest is fairly weak.

 

Shoot it in the side


Edited by Gremlin182, 29 January 2018 - 07:02 AM.


AcexCRO #62 Posted 03 March 2018 - 01:42 PM

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Just picked up Emil I today and it's pretty good tank.Don't have the top engine yet.Im wondering i have 2500 avg dmg on it and its only 2700 wn8.Is it just too good to have more wn8 or what.And after 20 battles i never seen tier 6-7.

 



yessuz #63 Posted 09 March 2018 - 09:53 AM

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ok, I read the topic and a bit confusing. maybe I am potato/tomato, but damn...

ok, EMIL 1 was nothing spectacular, elited in 139 games and sold it.

now on EMIL 2 and well, I have quite mixed emotions.

 

Good:

- Turret from front when hull down

- Top Gun - is just superb - 4 x 400 with OK pen (not the best, but not the worst as well - you can pen weak spots like a boss)

- Speed - it feels FASTER (maybe turning speeds worse) better than T54E1 which I grind to T57 Heavy... and T54E1 is medium.

- My WR % on Emil 2 is just spectacular - the only tank I have with >68% WR!!! after 65 matches. These are like super unicum numbers... I just can't believe how good WR is with it so far.

 

Bad:

- Stock gun is meh.. but used reserves and as much free XP as possible. To be fair, I always try to use the free XP to skip stock guns on all upper tiers...

- Hull is just crap. but you have to hull down.

- Inter-clip reload and clip reload is painfully slow - you definitely need either another Emil 1/2 as your support or any other tank for the support for that matter - just to cover you when you are reloading

- Pen is low. but again - use pen marker, aim for weak spots and you will be fine.

- Ace Tanker - I feel it is quite hard to achieve. Had really good games, and level 1 only :/



Search_Warrant #64 Posted 09 March 2018 - 02:40 PM

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"you can pen weak spots like a boss"

 

Tell that to a mid range 268 that i dirtshot and bounced his upper hull with not 1.. but TWO whole clips off it while he autopen my face with gold ammo hulldown. i lost because the guns that bad i i lost 2 clips worth off a stationary target looking directly at me, and RNG threw me under a bus because the guns total aids and wouldent HIT the lower plate.



GoHomeClub #65 Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:46 AM

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I rebought Emil II recently, just because tier 9 is imba a priori and it's still the way I remember it to be.....OP in hulldown positions and pathetic in every other situation. Nevertheless it seems to work in a lot of matches/on a lot of maps and you can have considerable success with it. No idea about Emil I though. It was ok when i grinded through it. These day its probably shite though, just because tier 8 mm is pure ebola.



CrimsonEntropy #66 Posted 06 April 2018 - 02:53 PM

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Only played the Emil 1 thus far but.....Intra-clip reload sucks massively and the reload for 4 shells is extremely long....Especially considering the gun handling. Why the [edited]WG chose to insert the Somua SM into the game is beyond me......it's better in every single department except alpha/module damage and turret armour...perhaps a little longer reload and a little worse dispersion but it's a simply better vehicle AND it's a premium? I thought that the bottom line was to never make a Premium vehicle that is better than an equivalently tiered tank of the same type? 

Oh, wait.

Someone drank all the vodka and/or wants a new Porsche? 

It'll never be buffed, which just shows exactly how WG treats it's customers; "You want stronk tank? No free grind, gief rubles!" 

jnykanen #67 Posted 06 October 2018 - 07:03 PM

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Emil2 is crap

Kleidokratoras #68 Posted 07 October 2018 - 09:02 PM

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This heavy line seems it died so fast.If you remember the first test server ones were amazing and they nerfed them before they got them out.It really seems they over nerfed them.In this meta they have nothing to show for except a great turret frontally but nothing else to show up for.I think they need some kind of buffing to be par with anything else.

Quintuss #69 Posted 11 October 2018 - 04:16 PM

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It died due to the meta: all they had was being great when hulldown AND being able to fire a whole clip...

 

now you have much better hulldown tanks (S-Conq, IS7,...) that aren't stuck with a horrbly slow auto-loader and acctually have armour even when not hulldown.

also swedish HTs cannot take HE so they got hit very hard by arty and jap-HT changes.

 

Kranvagen, 57HT, 50B simply cover the 3 possible aspects for 4-shot-HT-autoloaders: one is fast, one has great DPM, one is a hulldown god. - of course we might still get a russian one with 450mm frontal hull armour AND 60 km/h topspeed becouse of reasons.....



VonCarlsson #70 Posted 30 October 2018 - 11:53 PM

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View PostQuintuss, on 11 October 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

It died due to the meta: all they had was being great when hulldown AND being able to fire a whole clip...

 

now you have much better hulldown tanks (S-Conq, IS7,...) that aren't stuck with a horrbly slow auto-loader and acctually have armour even when not hulldown.

also swedish HTs cannot take HE so they got hit very hard by arty and jap-HT changes.

 

Kranvagen, 57HT, 50B simply cover the 3 possible aspects for 4-shot-HT-autoloaders: one is fast, one has great DPM, one is a hulldown god. - of course we might still get a russian one with 450mm frontal hull armour AND 60 km/h topspeed becouse of reasons.....

 

Not just meta. It's that Wargaming have backed themselves into a bit of a corner by having rigid tank types (light, medium, heavy etc.). Which of course made sense when the higher tiers were made up out of primarily WW2 era tanks, but not so much for tanks designed and/or built not too long after.

 

Take for instance the Object 430, the precursor to the T-64, which in real life is considered a main battle tank, but in WoT is classified as a medium tank whereas the EMIL-family tanks get classified as heavy tanks despite being in the same weight class and having equivalent mobility. It's was never intended to face the enemy tanks head-on while bouncing hit after hit, like some sort of action movie. Rather, it was meant to take advantage of the hilly Swedish landscape to punish advancing forces, while making itself as small of a target as possible. The same way the Stridsvagn 103 (which was NOT a tank destroyer) was intended to do. I think it would've felt a lot less alien had it been a medium tank, not to mention truer to it real life characteristics and not screwing up the tech tree.


Edited by VonCarlsson, 30 October 2018 - 11:55 PM.


Hyina #71 Posted 03 November 2018 - 07:05 PM

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Emil I and II are both specialists in hull down, in majority of other situations they're average at best. Can't sidescrape in Emil I btw.

VonCarlsson #72 Posted 05 November 2018 - 06:51 PM

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View PostHyina, on 03 November 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

Emil I and II are both specialists in hull down, in majority of other situations they're average at best.

 

They are too specialized in my opinion. To a large degree in opposition with historical data, as well. While true that Sweden focused primarily on defense and that that need clearly shows in its domestic designs, whether it be tanks, ships, submarines or airplanes. That being said, Sweden realized early on that an exclusively static defense simply wasn't feasible, as it's not only expensive but proven unreliable by the end of the first world war. This is clearly evident from the way its tanks were designed, not as hulking beasts intended to be used as more-or-less static emplacements, but stealthy and nimble opportunists, relying heavily on technology, speed and communication within semi-autonomous battle groups. Although the clearest evidence of this mindset is found in the air force, where extensive resources were spent in order to develop aircraft that were easily maintainable and that could still operate effectively on roads. The assumption being that that most airfields would quickly be made inoperable should a conflict ever arise.

 

The current implementation of the EMIL-variants does a poor job of representing this. Now, obviously sometimes things have to be sacrificed for the sake of game play. Implementing it as less of a specialist and incidentally more historically accurately however, would serve to mitigate the negative side-effects of such sacrifices without necessarily making it overpowered.

 

As a side note, this supposed (I have no hard data) rather significant difference in outcome from either getting a map that favors the EMIL-tanks, or one that doesn't, underlines an oft overlooked potential issue that arise from an over-reliance on statistical means. Namely that a mean says nothing about the variance of the random variables (the "width" of the probability distribution), which could arguably be just as disruptive to game play as statistically underperforming tanks.

 

View PostHyina, on 03 November 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

Can't sidescrape in Emil I btw.

 

It's quite difficult in the Emil II, too. Not only is it pike nosed, but there's a second upper plate that is exceptionally poorly placed for the purpose of side scraping.

Edited by VonCarlsson, 05 November 2018 - 07:08 PM.





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