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Malinovka - incorrect name?


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wilkatis_LV #1 Posted 19 January 2017 - 06:07 PM

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Putting this in off-topic as it basically has no connection to gameplay, it'sall  about the name of the map.

It's probably going to be a long-ish read, but bare with me, it'll make sense (or at least it should) by the end.

 

So, what's the problem? As everyone can check - there is no background information on the maps in-game or in the WoT Wiki page, so it's simply generally assumed (or in some cases - known) that they are based on locations where actual tank battles took place.

In my school years whenever we were learning about WW2 the name of Malinovka (I'll just use the wrong-ish name here as by that time I didn't know the correct one) never showed up. History classes required us to know how many died / were wounded in battles all around the Europe (Pacific campaign was barely mentioned), but as the education system is "great" - there was pretty much no mention of Latvia (a.k.a. the country where I live).

In school I had the "know it all" reputation (this will make sense later, don't worry), I didn't even have to try to get good grades. That usually helped to get a few small "jobs" here and there, even after finishing the school.

One of these "jobs" recently happened to be a presentation about "World War 2 Aces in Eastern Front". Idea was that each student got a random ticket with a name of some Ace and had to do a presentation about them. The <person> who contacted me had got "Otto Carius". Never had herd of him in my classes, but hey, on the internet it doesn't take particularly long to find information about someone, especially if they were a honored tank ace or something like that.

 

Turns out Otto Cariuss one of (if not the) most famous battles was Battle of Malinova (22.07.1944).

Here is a clip from "Discovery: Greatest Tank Battles. The Battle for the Baltics" (s2e5) about this battle (but it's in russian so if you don't speak the language maybe find this episode in english or just ignore this video)

 

 

As a rather big surprise I found out that this battle took place in territory of Latvia, slightly North-East of city Daugavpils (know in german as Dunaburg).

Here is a Google Maps screenshot of the area. I've circled the Names of Daugavpils and Malinova, as well as the lakes further NE from them (it'll soon be apparent why)

 

 

At this point I was interested to know why the difference - Malinova (the name of the village) and Malinovka (has the extra "k" in the name). Turns out - it's just a russification (basically the real name made more "russian" ).

I found both names in russian maps of the area:

 

Malinova:

 

Malinovka:

 

The reason I highlighted the lakes is this one in the middle:

 

 

When you rotate the map 90 degrees to the right this small lake (Boltaru lake) seems to be the inspiration for the location of the "Malinovka" map

 

 

I'd say that the similarity of the lakes shape is rather obvious.

So, what I've concluded in this "research" is that the map "Malinovka" is based on Battle of Malinova, which happened around the village of Malinova, and the map itself is set around the Boltaru lake North-East of Malinova.

 

My point is - if that's the case, why are we using the russification instead of the actual name of the village. For example the map "Paris" isn't called "Pariz" like it would be in russian, why would it be the case here?


Edited by wilkatis_LV, 19 January 2017 - 06:08 PM.


Eaglax #2 Posted 19 January 2017 - 06:53 PM

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Malinovka was the historical name of Malinova, according to wiki and a (random?) latvian site. So I think it is ok to use it, otherwise you would have to rename Stalingrad too, which wouldn't be authentic imho 

 

great effort though :medal:


Edited by Eaglax, 19 January 2017 - 07:05 PM.


Krasnoarmeyets #3 Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:02 PM

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U are right,it shoukd be called Campinovka

datester #4 Posted 19 January 2017 - 11:28 PM

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Nice find, nice post. 

 

Not much of a a battle though, if the red team consists of basecamping noobs :P



cragarion #5 Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:55 AM

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Different languages have different spellings for the same words.

anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #6 Posted 20 January 2017 - 10:04 AM

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View Postwilkatis_LV, on 19 January 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

Putting this in off-topic as it basically has no connection to gameplay, it'sall  about the name of the map.

It's probably going to be a long-ish read, but bare with me, it'll make sense (or at least it should) by the end.

 

So, what's the problem? As everyone can check - there is no background information on the maps in-game or in the WoT Wiki page, so it's simply generally assumed (or in some cases - known) that they are based on locations where actual tank battles took place.

In my school years whenever we were learning about WW2 the name of Malinovka (I'll just use the wrong-ish name here as by that time I didn't know the correct one) never showed up. History classes required us to know how many died / were wounded in battles all around the Europe (Pacific campaign was barely mentioned), but as the education system is "great" - there was pretty much no mention of Latvia (a.k.a. the country where I live).

In school I had the "know it all" reputation (this will make sense later, don't worry), I didn't even have to try to get good grades. That usually helped to get a few small "jobs" here and there, even after finishing the school.

One of these "jobs" recently happened to be a presentation about "World War 2 Aces in Eastern Front". Idea was that each student got a random ticket with a name of some Ace and had to do a presentation about them. The <person> who contacted me had got "Otto Carius". Never had herd of him in my classes, but hey, on the internet it doesn't take particularly long to find information about someone, especially if they were a honored tank ace or something like that.

 

Turns out Otto Cariuss one of (if not the) most famous battles was Battle of Malinova (22.07.1944).

Here is a clip from "Discovery: Greatest Tank Battles. The Battle for the Baltics" (s2e5) about this battle (but it's in russian so if you don't speak the language maybe find this episode in english or just ignore this video)

 

 

 

As a rather big surprise I found out that this battle took place in territory of Latvia, slightly North-East of city Daugavpils (know in german as Dunaburg).

Here is a Google Maps screenshot of the area. I've circled the Names of Daugavpils and Malinova, as well as the lakes further NE from them (it'll soon be apparent why)

 

 

 

At this point I was interested to know why the difference - Malinova (the name of the village) and Malinovka (has the extra "k" in the name). Turns out - it's just a russification (basically the real name made more "russian" ).

I found both names in russian maps of the area:

 

Malinova:

 

 

Malinovka:

 

 

The reason I highlighted the lakes is this one in the middle:

 

 

 

When you rotate the map 90 degrees to the right this small lake (Boltaru lake) seems to be the inspiration for the location of the "Malinovka" map

 

 

 

I'd say that the similarity of the lakes shape is rather obvious.

So, what I've concluded in this "research" is that the map "Malinovka" is based on Battle of Malinova, which happened around the village of Malinova, and the map itself is set around the Boltaru lake North-East of Malinova.

 

My point is - if that's the case, why are we using the russification instead of the actual name of the village. For example the map "Paris" isn't called "Pariz" like it would be in russian, why would it be the case here?

 

The country I live in is called "Nederland".

Other countries/people call it "Holland", "Hollanda", "Hollande", "Hollanti", "ປະເທດໂຣນລັງ (Patheet Hoonlang)", "The Netherlands", "Low Countries" or  "Pays Bas"

 

Why won't they just say "Nederland"  or in phonetic "Nay-durr-land"???

 

 

 

P.S. Pretty informative though. Other then the name thingy...

 

 


Edited by Spek_en_Bonen, 20 January 2017 - 10:04 AM.


wilkatis_LV #7 Posted 20 January 2017 - 04:25 PM

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I think I failed to convey the point correctly - it was called Malinova by pretty much everyone (who knew of the place of course) before and during WW2, then russians satarted calling in Malinovka in soviet times without changing the actual name, and after the soviet times ended it's still Malinova, regarded to as Malinovka by local russian population.

 

 

 


Edited by wilkatis_LV, 20 January 2017 - 04:26 PM.


wilkatis_LV #8 Posted 20 January 2017 - 04:28 PM

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View PostSpek_en_Bonen, on 20 January 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

 

The country I live in is called "Nederland".

Other countries/people call it "Holland", "Hollanda", "Hollande", "Hollanti", "ປະເທດໂຣນລັງ (Patheet Hoonlang)", "The Netherlands", "Low Countries" or  "Pays Bas"

 

Why won't they just say "Nederland"  or in phonetic "Nay-durr-land"???

 

 

Well, in Latvia we use both interchangeably - "Holande" and "Nīderlande", the 2nd seemingly being pronounced very similarly to what you wrote there



CrySpy #9 Posted 20 January 2017 - 04:38 PM

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Well, not really ontopic, but Holland =/= the Netherlands.

 

But yeah, a very interesting read. Some maps, however, are there juest because of variety. Fjords for example, and Windstorm(which seems to be inspired by Trondheim).



fisco77 #10 Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:07 AM

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Interesting thread. I went to check it out for myself, since i drove not that far away from there with my mother some 15 years ago on a trip to Baltic states (Slovenia-Hungary-Slovakia-Poland-Litva-Latvia-Estonia-Finland and back). 

I think i also found our hill overlooking the lake, it's just to the left of the lake, and it has a sort of square shape. Check it out. 

 

 

 

 



dennez #11 Posted 06 October 2017 - 09:36 AM

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Isn't the -ka ending a diminutive in Rashan? Maybe because its a small village and they regard it as "ooh that sweet little cute town where we stopped the Zermans.." Mailnovka?


Edited by dennez, 06 October 2017 - 09:37 AM.


alienslive #12 Posted 06 October 2017 - 11:23 AM

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Thx the effort in the post. I learned something.

 

 






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