Jump to content


So, does tier 8 get particularly mean matchmaking?

tier 8 top tier bottom tier

  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

Lycopersicon #1 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:24 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 10120 battles
  • 3,310
  • Member since:
    07-30-2014

Everyone knows that tier  8 gets it real bad, because of those tier 10 tanks that draw them into bottom tier games, right? Everyone except me, because I'm blind - I always felt that my few tier 8 tanks didn't suffer notably but were rather on par with lower tiers. Now that I finally figured out how to make WoT Replay Analyser show these statistics, I checked, and... boy was I wrong. So here goes, summaries from my replays from my home computer, patches 0.9.16-current (because the analyser freezes when loading something from the older replays, and besides, I didn't play T8 earlier anyway). I excluded scouts and tanks with limited matchmaking.

 

STA-1: top 54 (45,8%), middle 38 (32.2%), bottom 26 (22.0%).

T32: top 20 (46.5%), middle 13 (30.2%), bottom 10 (23.3%).

T-44: top 25 (43.1%), middle 20 (34.5%), bottom 13 (22.4%).

Tier 8 together (minus FCM): top 99 (45.2%), middle 71 (32.4%), bottom 49 (22.4%).

 

For comparison, some other tiers:

Tier 7 together: top 61 (30.8%), middle 76 (38.4%), bottom 61 (30.8%)

Tier 6 together (minus scout): top 134 (33.4%), middle 145 (36.2%), bottom 122 (30.4%)

Tier 5 together (minus scouts, T14, and Soviet Tilly): top 109 (34.4%), middle 111 (35.0%), bottom 97 (30.6%)

 

So, whether it is all those black goats I sacrifice to SerB every second Friday, actual truth buried under common conformation bias, or just a random fluctuation - in any case, tier 8 seems to be far more generous than any other to me when it comes to getting top tier games. I know this sample size is not exactly overwhelming, but the trend appears to be rather consistent between tanks, and in any case, this is much better sample size than "I know it is so because I had three bottom tier games in a row yesterday".


Edited by Lycopersicon, 21 March 2017 - 07:34 AM.


Archaean #2 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:37 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 13496 battles
  • 648
  • Member since:
    04-25-2015

It's so mysterious isn't it? And you couldn't possibly guess why that's the case? If you can't, then try this.

 

http://www.vbaddict....ttles&server=eu


Edited by Archaean, 20 March 2017 - 11:40 PM.


Aikl #3 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:39 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 22757 battles
  • 2,730
  • [REKRZ] REKRZ
  • Member since:
    04-13-2011
The tier spread is indeed the reason. I think the matchmaker doesn't care too much, but IIRC it should strive to put you as top tier once in a while. It differs between times of day too, I'm guessing there are more mid-tier tanks during the afternoon than late at night or even at daytime.

Edited by Aikl, 20 March 2017 - 11:39 PM.


RamRaid90 #4 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:40 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 17390 battles
  • 4,182
  • [-AWF-] -AWF-
  • Member since:
    12-14-2014

I've had a particularly bad run in my IS-3 since i rebought it a few days ago. 26 games played, 22 tier X battles, 1 tier 8 game where i happened across 5,552 damage done, 3.5k blocked and 2k assisted.

 

Maybe it's because i don't play it consistantly and just now and again jump in it...

 

However with these missions for damage, tier 10 is quite a popular tier so it makes sort of sense...


Edited by RamRaid90, 20 March 2017 - 11:41 PM.


Archaean #5 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:44 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 13496 battles
  • 648
  • Member since:
    04-25-2015

View PostRamRaid90, on 20 March 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

I've had a particularly bad run in my IS-3 since i rebought it a few days ago. 26 games played, 22 tier X battles, 1 tier 8 game where i happened across 5,552 damage done, 3.5k blocked and 2k assisted.

 

Maybe it's because i don't play it consistantly and just now and again jump in it...

 

However with these missions for damage, tier 10 is quite a popular tier so it makes sort of sense...

Well yes, I also went for t10 to do the mission. I used the STRV 103b to quickly complete the top damage mission and it also makes sense. But it's also possible to do it in lower tiers.



Homer_J #6 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:45 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 25605 battles
  • 24,888
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostLycopersicon, on 20 March 2017 - 10:24 PM, said:

Everyone knows that tier  8 gets it real bad, because of those tier 10 tanks that draw them into bottom tier games, right?

 

No because the numbers of tier 8 tanks being played far outweighs the number of tier 10.

Lycopersicon #7 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:46 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 10120 battles
  • 3,310
  • Member since:
    07-30-2014

View PostArchaean, on 21 March 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

It's so mysterious isn't it? And you couldn't possibly guess why that's the case? If you can't, then try this.

 

http://www.vbaddict....ttles&server=eu

 

I'm not actually looking for reasons, I'm inviting people to defend the apparantly common knowledge that tier 8 tanks end up in tier 10 games all the time :) Thanks for the link, though; pretty convincing numbers there.

RamRaid90 #8 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:47 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 17390 battles
  • 4,182
  • [-AWF-] -AWF-
  • Member since:
    12-14-2014

View PostHomer_J, on 20 March 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

 

No because the numbers of tier 8 tanks being played far outweighs the number of tier 10.

 

It seems not while these missions are going on. As i said (although these were not in succession) I had a bad run in the IS-3 when i rebought it 4 days ago, 5/5 tier X. So i wrote down the games in played in it from then on. So far 26 battles, 22 tier X games.

RamRaid90 #9 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:48 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 17390 battles
  • 4,182
  • [-AWF-] -AWF-
  • Member since:
    12-14-2014

View PostArchaean, on 20 March 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

It's so mysterious isn't it? And you couldn't possibly guess why that's the case? If you can't, then try this.

 

http://www.vbaddict....ttles&server=eu

 

You have to subtract premium tank bias from that number though, as there are no tier 9/10 premium tanks. I suspect those numbers to be far closer if those are taken out.

 

The number of tier 8 games drops by 3.5 million if you subtract premium tanks.


Edited by RamRaid90, 20 March 2017 - 11:57 PM.


Enforcer1975 #10 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:54 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 14727 battles
  • 8,806
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    05-04-2014
I have a relatively equal tierspread on my tier 8s. The problem is most of them have become so useless even against some tough tier 9s. Tier 9 and 10 should have their "pmm" status removed by reintroducing tier 12 MM again. They want to play top tier they should play among themselves more often.

Archaean #11 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:56 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 13496 battles
  • 648
  • Member since:
    04-25-2015

View PostLycopersicon, on 20 March 2017 - 11:46 PM, said:

 

I'm not actually looking for reasons, I'm inviting people to defend the apparantly common knowledge that tier 8 tanks end up in tier 10 games all the time :) Thanks for the link, though; pretty convincing numbers there.

 

Well, it's random. I've been playing more t8 lately. (I usually only play t10) and I was incredibly lucky out of around 20 games I was in 12 top tier

 



Archaean #12 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:57 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 13496 battles
  • 648
  • Member since:
    04-25-2015

View PostRamRaid90, on 20 March 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

 

You have to subtract premium tank bias from that number though, as there are no tier 9/10 premium tanks. I suspect those numbers to be far closer if those are taken out.

 

The number of tier 8 games drops by 3.5 million if you subtract premium tanks.

 

but why do you need to take them out? not all of them have "premium" matchmaking.

 

http://www.vbaddict....ttles&server=eu



RamRaid90 #13 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:59 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 17390 battles
  • 4,182
  • [-AWF-] -AWF-
  • Member since:
    12-14-2014

View PostArchaean, on 20 March 2017 - 10:57 PM, said:

 

but why do you need to take them out? not all of them have "premium" matchmaking.

 

http://www.vbaddict....ttles&server=eu

 

It is irrelevant whether they have premium MM or not. The point is premium tanks are played far more often as a way of grinding credits to play tier 10 games, it also creates a situation where there are far more tier 8 tanks. This naturally will always skew the battle count in favour of the tier 8s vs the tier 10s.


Edited by RamRaid90, 21 March 2017 - 12:00 AM.


Lycopersicon #14 Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:04 AM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 10120 battles
  • 3,310
  • Member since:
    07-30-2014

View PostRamRaid90, on 21 March 2017 - 12:59 AM, said:

 

It is irrelevant whether they have premium MM or not. The point is premium tanks are played far more often as a way of grinding credits to play tier 10 games, it also creates a situation where there are far more tier 8 tanks. This naturally will always skew the battle count in favour of the tier 8s vs the tier 10s.

 

Yeah, that's true, but not very relevant here. No matter why tier 8 tanks are playerd so match, the fact is that they are played a lot more than tiers 9-10, and therefore they cannot possibly spend most of their stage time as cannon fodder for the higher tiers in the long run.

RamRaid90 #15 Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:08 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 17390 battles
  • 4,182
  • [-AWF-] -AWF-
  • Member since:
    12-14-2014

View PostLycopersicon, on 20 March 2017 - 11:04 PM, said:

 

Yeah, that's true, but not very relevant here. No matter why tier 8 tanks are playerd so match, the fact is that they are played a lot more than tiers 9-10, and therefore they cannot possibly spend most of their stage time as cannon fodder for the higher tiers in the long run.

 

Well also not true. As the amount of tier X tanks can vary per game. Just because the overall battle count is lower that could be achieved by simply putting 3 tier X vs 12 tier VIII tanks. The tier VIII would still be cannon fodder and not really do much vs the tier X, despite a battle count in that situation 4x higher.

Edited by RamRaid90, 21 March 2017 - 12:12 AM.


ZeeAa #16 Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:32 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27704 battles
  • 1,037
  • [--P--] --P--
  • Member since:
    05-02-2013

I haven't observed much. My WZ-111 has limited MM so no tier X. Compare to FV4202 which can get tier X too, not much different.

 

Seeing vbaddict stats average tiers for tier 7-9 tanks are exactly as should be.

 

 



THF_DK #17 Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:05 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 28149 battles
  • 878
  • Member since:
    10-20-2014
For me its simple,, i almost never run my T9+,, normal max T8, before 1800 local time, mix tier, after mostly T10 games, but my T8's can work in T10 whit a little luck..

tajj7 #18 Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:40 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 22555 battles
  • 13,351
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

View PostLycopersicon, on 20 March 2017 - 10:24 PM, said:

Everyone knows that tier  8 gets it real bad, because of those tier 10 tanks that draw them into bottom tier games, right? Everyone except me, because I'm blind - I always felt that my few tier 8 tanks didn't suffer notably but were rather on par with lower tiers. Now that I finally figured out how to make WoT Replay Analyser show these statistics, I checked, and... boy was I wrong. So here goes, summaries from my replays from my home computer, patches 0.9.16-current (because the analyser freezes when loading something from the older replays, and besides, I didn't play T8 earlier anyway). I excluded scouts and tanks with limited matchmaking.

 

STA-1: top 54 (45,8%), middle 38 (32.2%), bottom 26 (22.0%).

T32: top 20 (46.5%), middle 13 (30.2%), bottom 10 (23.3%).

T-44: top 25 (43.1%), middle 20 (34.5%), bottom 13 (22.4%).

Tier 8 together (minus FCM): top 99 (45.2%), middle 71 (32.4%), bottom 49 (22.4%).

 

For comparison, some other tiers:

Tier 7 together: top 61 (30.8%), middle 76 (38.4%), bottom 61 (30.8%)

Tier 6 together (minus scout): top 134 (33.4%), middle 145 (36.2%), bottom 122 (30.4%)

Tier 5 together (minus scouts, T14, and Soviet Tilly): top 109 (34.4%), middle 111 (35.0%), bottom 97 (30.6%)

 

So, whether it is all those black goats I sacrifice to SerB every second Friday, actual truth buried under common conformation bias, or just a random fluctuation - in any case, tier 8 seems to be far more generous than any other to me when it comes to getting top tier games. I know this sample size is not exactly overwhelming, but the trend appears to be rather consistent between tanks, and in any case, this is much better sample size than "I know it is so because I had three bottom tier games in a row yesterday".

 

Similar figures to what I've seen before. Should get even better when the new MM comes in because those bottom tier games will become less painful.

 

The only caveats I'd add are -

 

1. The gap between tier 8 and tier 10 IMO is huge for most tanks so being bottom tier often feels more painful I think, might also be due to view ranges and player ability/crew as well, I kind of feel a good crew tier 6 can often still do stuff pretty well in a tier 8 game. Whereas you feel very out classed when in a tier 8 in a tier 10.

 

2. I have found that the game often likes to put bottom tier tanks in as basically make weights, so you are sometimes the only tier 8 in a tier 10 or one of say 3 tier 8s and 50% of both teams are tier 10 so this can feel more painful. New MM should fix this. 

 

3. I find the runs punishing, for example in my 252 the other day I had 5 tier 10 games in a row, just bad luck of course but not at all fun. Again new MM should fix that.

 

On a side note, how did you get the replay analyser to show those stats? Tried to work that out last time and couldn't see it. 

 

 

 

 



EggyTheGumGumChewer #19 Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:48 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 16263 battles
  • 743
  • [CRY-X] CRY-X
  • Member since:
    06-04-2012
Tier 7 mm is much more painful than tier 8. Tier 8 has somewhat competetive tanks. For example, what are you going to do in a tier 9 game in Black Prince?

Richthoffen #20 Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:54 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 24608 battles
  • 2,408
  • Member since:
    12-23-2011

it depends on what tank you use, not all will have the same weight battle tier wise, also I feel platooning give you a bigger chance to come in tier x matches.

as there are plenty of tier x being played it would be interesting to see battle tier 12  resurrected.

from your sample there are two meds, STA and T44 and it is possible they have a lower battle tier weight






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users