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Historic mode and other "failed" modes


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ZeeAa #1 Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:11 AM

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View Post, on 20 March 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

 

And after half year or so this new ranked battle mode will follow historic battles to wherever it is now.

 

 

That might be very good but unfortunate example.

 

I have been curious about how often I've seen, that players who've been around when the mode was active, and who have played quite a lot, have not played the historic mode at all. 

 

Back then I had only some of the tanks allowed in it, I had rather long waiting times I recall with some tanks, while with some I had much better. I didn't play it a lot due to this, I think I had some tanks that I could not get into fights at all, because they were too popular.  KV-1?

 

But it's curious, it was no great fantastic mode or anything like that, but it was very playable and different to this all-familiar normal game. The gear was limited, you had shitty radios, engines and weaker guns on most tanks, most had much more HE ammo than normally. Did they even have AP at all, doesn't matter. These small changes made the gameplay somewhat different.

 

So in that, I think it's curious and odd, how few people actually played it. I'm pretty sure I wasn't reading the forums at the time so I don't know what people generally talked about it, but specially before, I often watched peoples stats ingame and so often observed players like 10k-30k who had 0 games in the historic mode. That was then, now they would have more games or stopped playing.

 

 

It seems like most WoT players are like grumpy old folk who are highly conservative about trying anything novel or new. Even when it's completely optional, I could understand no one would like that being implemented as mandatory.

 

I think, WG was not so good back then in making new modes. If they were to implement the historic mode now, they could have the same thing, but just add some reward stuff. But back then, they haden't realized all these tokens, good award tanks, okay premium tanks, boosts and other stuff.

 

I think the same thing was with Domination /rampage mode. It had different implementations I recall, not just "one" mode, some of them with fixed tanks was a bit silly, because people then took the autoloader X tiers they didnä't normally have, and it turned into sniping campfest a bit. Which is particularly odd as with respawning you should not worry too much about taking some damage. Everyone who played that one particular implementation knows the repair station campfest, making it difficult to advance even with a medium. 

 

It was not hugely popular but during it's course it was somewhat played. Of course some took it as chance to set up fake battles to fix themselves the reward tank one mode offered. Besides the cheating I recall biggest complain about it on the forum, was that it was expensive. But, with X tier tanks, I think that's kinda the idea, no mode should break from that baseline that you either need to be pretty good or have premium accoutn to get credits while playing X tier tanks.

 

 

I think, considering these established attempts, anything really new WG would try to bring to WoT, it's likely going to fail. People just seem too strongly attached to this what we have now. Things like balance 2.0 and tank roles would be all great in a "vacuum", but to make that with existing playerbase, I wonder if any big changes could be made, that would be accepted and adapted.

 

http://wiki.wargamin...oved_Game_Modes

I don't remember seeing all of these, but it's really amusing the wording of comment about vip escort mode.

"Status: no longer in development after tests showed random players lacked the required ability to team-play."

.

 

 

 

 



Nexuo #2 Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:21 AM

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Historic mode might have worked as PvE instead of PvP. Makes balancing and match finding partially easier.

 

I always wished WoT had more PvE modes other than the training stuff.



Homer_J #3 Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:31 AM

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View PostZeeAa, on 21 March 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

 

But it's curious, it was no great fantastic mode or anything like that, but it was very playable

 

 

If it had been then it would have been played more.

 

I played it a bit on the test server, it was quite clear then that it would be a failure but they went ahead and released it anyway.  IIRC it was a knee jerk reaction to a perceived threat from some other tank game.  It might have worked if they had made it so you played in organised teams, similar to the team battles or skirmishes.  At least then you could have had fixed or slightly flexible setups.  As it was implemented it was obvious nobody would be queuing up with certain tanks.

 

I tried to join a couple of the battles after it went live but all that happened was I sat in a queue until it threw me back to the garage.

 

Quote

It seems like most WoT players are like grumpy old folk who are highly conservative about trying anything novel or new. Even when it's completely optional,

Isn't the point of being optional that you don't have to try it?  Or is this the new definition of optional my boss keeps coming up with.

 

Trust me, we tried historical battles, they were a failure.  And it wasn't that lack of players which drove the failure, it was the failure which drove the lack of players.

 

Escort mode was shelved after the WoT playerbase showed how great they were at adapting to new modes when assault and encounter were released.



Homer_J #4 Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:35 AM

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I think http://ftr.wot-news....rate-by-nation/ this illustrates the problem with confrontation mode.

 

If you were playing certain nations at certain tiers you were best disabling the mode unless you liked losing.



Balc0ra #5 Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:39 AM

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View PostNexuo, on 21 March 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:

Historic mode might have worked as PvE instead of PvP. Makes balancing and match finding partially easier.

 

I always wished WoT had more PvE modes other than the training stuff.

 

Last WG talked about historical mode, they were testing it again... vs bots to create PVE senarios etc. But not heard talks about that for a long time.

 

Domination/Rampage was kinda fun. But I suspect most did not play it as 9 out 10 games had someone rigging the T-22 missions. Thus most had zero interest in it. As every time I was willing to give it a second go. I instantly went back to randoms again.

 

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 21 March 2017 - 02:39 AM.


Tinbawx #6 Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:39 AM

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The main issue (for me) with historic mode was, that it wasn´t particularly rewarding to play. Sure, you play to have and all that but I had just as much fun in a regular random battle and in addition to that randoms helped me progressing in the tech trees.

 

And in addition to that there where also the balance issues.

German vs British T4 battles -> hello matildas, the only german T4 TD at the time was hetzer and that wasn´t in the historic line up, so best tanks on german side where Panzer IIIs.

German vs American (Battle of the Bulge) -> Tiger II, Panther, Jagdtiger vs american T6 tanks.

German vs Soviet (Prokhorovka) -> Tiger, Panther vs. Soviet T6s (except some SU-152s).

 

A lot of people when they don´t grind a tech tree line, they play a small selection of their favourite tanks (which might or might not be in the historc battle line up), T10s or premium tanks to rake up credits.

 

The point is, random battles are just as fun as historic or nation battles, you just have the additional benefit of being able to play whatever tank you want, progressing down the tech trees, and don´t have to deal with the balance issues.

Rampage was sufficiently different, but I just hated the game mode.



ZeeAa #7 Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:25 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 21 March 2017 - 01:31 AM, said:

Isn't the point of being optional that you don't have to try it?  Or is this the new definition of optional my boss keeps coming up with.

 

I made no point about something new being optional so I don't know what you ask. For my particular reference to historic mode, my point was I've observed so few to even try it. Myself, I have about 20 games with it, most by one tank, because it was the easiest to get into with.

 

I don't know who you refer with "we". You haven't played any games with it on live server, and many many others have not either.

 

"Escort mode was shelved after the WoT playerbase showed how great they were at adapting to new modes when assault and encounter were released."

 

Yes, unfortuntately. And it's not just about ability, I think. It's also about will. And for person like me, I find it really odd. Not odd in literal sense, but odd as in so unexplained. I can't even imagine to understand that kind of mentality.

 

 



SuperOlsson #8 Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:02 AM

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View PostTinbawx, on 21 March 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

The main issue (for me) with historic mode was, that it wasn´t particularly rewarding to play. Sure, you play to have and all that but I had just as much fun in a regular random battle and in addition to that randoms helped me progressing in the tech trees.

 

And in addition to that there where also the balance issues.

German vs British T4 battles -> hello matildas, the only german T4 TD at the time was hetzer and that wasn´t in the historic line up, so best tanks on german side where Panzer IIIs.

German vs American (Battle of the Bulge) -> Tiger II, Panther, Jagdtiger vs american T6 tanks.

German vs Soviet (Prokhorovka) -> Tiger, Panther vs. Soviet T6s (except some SU-152s).

 

A lot of people when they don´t grind a tech tree line, they play a small selection of their favourite tanks (which might or might not be in the historc battle line up), T10s or premium tanks to rake up credits.

 

The point is, random battles are just as fun as historic or nation battles, you just have the additional benefit of being able to play whatever tank you want, progressing down the tech trees, and don´t have to deal with the balance issues.

Rampage was sufficiently different, but I just hated the game mode.

 

German vs Soviet: It didn't take long until there were a buttload of SU-152:s on prokhorovka, and understandably. It was the one vehicle in historical mode who could with ease deal with the German top tiers. I even remember wehrabos complaining on the forum that "There weren't that manu su-152's in the war!!!", when they no longer had their roflpwn-machine to steamroll stock T-34's.

Jigabachi #9 Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:50 AM

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I can only explain my perspective...
I followed the development of those new gamemodes, but never had any interest in playing them. The reason was and still is simple: If the gamebalance of the overall game is THAT broken, how the heck are those new gamemodes supposed to work? After all, they require a good balance in order to work. Sooo... yeah. No, thanks.
A few weeks later, when the meta of those modes was established, my thoughts got confirmed.

Again: As long as the game is that much broken to the core, I have absolutely ZERO interest in new gamemodes.

PipariIkkunaPesuvati #10 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:10 AM

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View PostSuperOlsson, on 21 March 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

 

German vs Soviet: It didn't take long until there were a buttload of SU-152:s on prokhorovka, and understandably. It was the one vehicle in historical mode who could with ease deal with the German top tiers. I even remember wehrabos complaining on the forum that "There weren't that manu su-152's in the war!!!", when they no longer had their roflpwn-machine to steamroll stock T-34's.

 

Long, long ago, when game has Historic Battle (i enjoy it a lot).

 

Same idea but there could be that kind modification where you can spot tank only LOS. Smaller maps, maybe little open ones, but some covers (scrub and rocks) to move on and without arty ofc. Maybe 10vs10 max players. When you spot tank, you can inform it on mini map (if ppl look it :sceptic: ) Problem comes on MM, how balance teams and tanks? I think same system as HB, only selected tanks can play, no tank grinding. All you can win is free xp and credits. Maybe crew training over nations.

 

(Quote my own post from another topic)

 

Bold text like system will fix problem to get only one kind tanks in match. You need both, fast tanks and tanks with dpm.

And only targetting spotted tank, others can see the location and spotter get reward by seeing it first and spotting it to others.



ZlatanArKung #11 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:20 AM

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I played a few historical battles. 

After the 5 minutes que time into garage a few times and reselecting your tank (choosed T-34 after a while) I got into a battle against Tigers in my T-34, which I had no chance of penning.

And the IS on my team drowned I think (Erlenberg). And after that I stopped with that mode. 

 

Play fodder tanks and get games or que in high tier tanks was how it worked out. 

 

Making it a PvE with pre-set rooms and stuff might be interesting. Especially if the missions are extremely hard. 



lonigus #12 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:35 AM

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View PostTinbawx, on 21 March 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

The main issue (for me) with historic mode was, that it wasn´t particularly rewarding to play. Sure, you play to have and all that but I had just as much fun in a regular random battle and in addition to that randoms helped me progressing in the tech trees.

 

And in addition to that there where also the balance issues.

German vs British T4 battles -> hello matildas, the only german T4 TD at the time was hetzer and that wasn´t in the historic line up, so best tanks on german side where Panzer IIIs.

German vs American (Battle of the Bulge) -> Tiger II, Panther, Jagdtiger vs american T6 tanks.

German vs Soviet (Prokhorovka) -> Tiger, Panther vs. Soviet T6s (except some SU-152s).

 

I felt the same. It was not fun at all and mostly very weirdly balanced.



pipik_roman #13 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:50 AM

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I played all historic battles with Jackson. And we lost all of them if I remember correctly. There was just no chance, maybe it was badly balanced or it was simply that team with lower tiers needs to cooperate (and it was even more important since I had only 3 premium shots against Tiger II) .

PipariIkkunaPesuvati #14 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:57 AM

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View Postlonigus, on 21 March 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

 

I felt the same. It was not fun at all and mostly very weirdly balanced.

 

Tank balance was big problem all day long indeed and not enough reward by credits or experience.

But HB idea was good and some grazy perverse way i enjoy them:P



scouse_in_the_house #15 Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:31 AM

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Was domination and rampage that unpopular you could get a game at 2am with virtually no queue.

CenturionA1 #16 Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:47 AM

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I think a PVE historic mode would work, heh players in M4's vs panzers panthers and tigers.

TankkiPoju #17 Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:13 AM

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View Postscouse_in_the_house, on 21 March 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Was domination and rampage that unpopular you could get a game at 2am with virtually no queue.

 

These modes weren't that bad - they just had issues WG for some reason never fixed... .like stupid spawn system.

 

Tank balance was also pretty silly like you could get an autoloader clip fully loaded immediately at repair stations... working as intended, I'm sure.

 

Also, the air and arty strikes were incredibly stupid... yeah people dislike arty, so why don't we give that to everyone...


Edited by TankkiPoju, 21 March 2017 - 10:15 AM.


Sams_Baneblade #18 Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:59 PM

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View Postpipik_roman, on 21 March 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

I played all historic battles with Jackson. And we lost all of them if I remember correctly. There was just no chance, maybe it was badly balanced or it was simply that team with lower tiers needs to cooperate (and it was even more important since I had only 3 premium shots against Tiger II) .

 

I playd HB with my Stug and never won on 5-6 tries. Ofc, german Top Tiers were immensely powerful. But ennemy teams were full of Hellcat statpdders with camo crew and they were raining shells from stealth and from any direction. We never spotted them until I played passive scout. We still lost as our Tiger II wasn't very smart. :/

 

That mode was a huge fail.



Homer_J #19 Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:21 PM

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View PostPipariIkkunaPesuvati, on 21 March 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

 

Tank balance was big problem

Strangely enough, real life had the same problem.

 

View Postscouse_in_the_house, on 21 March 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Was domination and rampage that unpopular you could get a game at 2am with virtually no queue.

That was only because people were desperate to complete the missions.  Without that bribe they would have died very quickly.






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