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AMX ELC bis huge nerf

AMX ELC bis nerf light tank update

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Poll: AMX ELC nerf (349 members have cast votes)

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Are these changes necessary?

  1. NO, they aren't needed (262 votes [74.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 74.64%

  2. YES, they are needed (89 votes [25.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.36%

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mitoma333 #1 Posted 03 April 2017 - 11:40 PM

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With all the new updates coming in I could rant about how wargaming is making the game more and more 'pay to be competitive' or how crapI think their artillery update is. But that's not the case.... 

 

It's this:

 

https://ritastatusreport.live/2017/02/17/supertest-tier-5-light-tank-stats/

 

And I personally get the feeling that wargaming is trying to sneak this one in because they know that they'll get a Edited of critique for it.

It's an enormous nerf to a tier 5 light tank that currently is quite balanced. 

Major changes are the hp nerf, the damage nerf and penetration nerf. 

I personally do not see the need for this change. It already has major drawbacks (like the fact you don't have a freaking turret or when a heavy tanks sneezes in your direction you lose half your hp), sure with the new matchmaking it would become a stronger tank (the new matchmaker would allow the amx elc bis to be top tier), but currently there are other tanks that they should look at rather then the amx elc and quite frankly even as a top tier it wouldn't be OP, it has crapaccuracy, low hp, no armor and a long reload. 

This tank is not only an icon in the french light tank tech tree but there are entire clans build around this tank and nerfing it would just be an enormous blow to elc lovers (me included).

 

Once again, wargaming is """"fixing"""" something that isn't broken and nobody was complaining about

 

If they really feel the need to balance this tank, please just put it a tier higher, but don't nerf it

 


Edited by Asklepi0s, 02 June 2017 - 10:38 AM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


Homer_J #2 Posted 03 April 2017 - 11:51 PM

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View Postmitoma333, on 03 April 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

 

It's an enormous nerf to a tier 5 light tank that currently is quite balanced. 

 

It's a tier 5 tank which currently does not meet tier 3 tanks but will do after the patch.  That is why it is getting adjusted.

 

Personally I think it would be better buffed and put in at tier 7 or 8.  Long term I can see them doing what they did with the PzIV S.  Remove it then bring it back as a premium.

 

And if you think they are sneaking it in or are not getting any complaints then you have not been paying attention.  Initially it was also losing the 90mm gun as well.


Edited by Homer_J, 03 April 2017 - 11:53 PM.


Coal_fighter #3 Posted 03 April 2017 - 11:59 PM

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I dont know i fine it makes the tank more balanced now. As is right now it has more then double the one shot damage then any other tier 5 light tank ( I think. ). And to make up for the nerf to the damage it will be getting full functioning turret, and that is a huge buff to this tank.

Thrael7 #4 Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:23 AM

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Stop having fun. Get balanced instead.

mitoma333 #5 Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:39 AM

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View PostCoal_fighter, on 03 April 2017 - 11:59 PM, said:

I dont know i fine it makes the tank more balanced now. As is right now it has more then double the one shot damage then any other tier 5 light tank ( I think. ). And to make up for the nerf to the damage it will be getting full functioning turret, and that is a huge buff to this tank.

 

Fully functioning turret seems .... unrealistic. I don't know how the real model worked but I thought that in real life the tank turret couldn't turn 360°

Also: yes it has double the damage, and tripple the reload and terrible accuracy. A chaffee will kill an elc every time, over and over and over and over again.



mitoma333 #6 Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:42 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 03 April 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

It's a tier 5 tank which currently does not meet tier 3 tanks but will do after the patch.  That is why it is getting adjusted.

 

Personally I think it would be better buffed and put in at tier 7 or 8.  Long term I can see them doing what they did with the PzIV S.  Remove it then bring it back as a premium.

 

And if you think they are sneaking it in or are not getting any complaints then you have not been paying attention.  Initially it was also losing the 90mm gun as well.

 

To be honest the old PZ IV was kiiiiiiiiinda op if you look at the stats, I played it back in the day but was too noob to realize how strong it rlly was.

Also your idea of upping it a few tiers, I kinda like it. I remember fighting tier 9's in my elc with the old, old matchmaking. Just give it 200 pen a bit more horsepower and hp and it's good to go in my opinion 



Homer_J #7 Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:45 AM

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View Postmitoma333, on 04 April 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

 

Fully functioning turret seems .... unrealistic. I don't know how the real model worked but I thought that in real life the tank turret couldn't turn 360°

 

 

It could but since the driver sat in the turret it obviously couldn't drive at the same time.



r00barb #8 Posted 04 April 2017 - 01:52 AM

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I second the motion to remove it altogether and bring it back as a tier 6 premium tank with its current stats. And I say that as someone who has a liking for his ELC to an almost unhealthy degree.

 

Guess I should grind out that third MoE before everything changes.



Balc0ra #9 Posted 04 April 2017 - 03:47 AM

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View Postmitoma333, on 03 April 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

Major changes are the hp nerf, the damage nerf and penetration nerf.

 

HP? Only light atm with +2 MM is the Crusader that has 450 HP, but that will be a medium next patch so not valid. So arguably you could say that the 400 HP one is fine. As on tier 5, sub 400 HP tanks are all TD's. And this is more or less a TD with the 90mm gun anyway. And if you got hit, you were highly screwed almost regardless, Just like the Stug with it's 350 HP. So most for their style of play won't notice it. So IMO it's fine, but still the 400 one is preferable.

 

Damage nerf? I suspect you are reffering to DPM. Yes with my crew and setup I will have a 1.41 sec longer reload. But again for the way most play it, you won't notice it much. Most do a drive by or fire and fall back anyway and use longer then 11 sec to get back to aim. So that 1.41 sec is not something I will notice that often.

 

Pen? When it came it did have a +5 MM facing E100's and IS-7's. Do you really need 170 pen or 248 gold pen to kill tier 3 tanks? Or tier 5's? As with the new MM, that will be 70% of the targets you face. O-I Exp has to work with 130. Most tier 5 mediums have to work with 120 give or take. So I suspect for most targets. That will still be more then enough. As on test, I had no issues with that pen even vs tier 7 targets.

 

View Postmitoma333, on 03 April 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

Once again, wargaming is """"fixing"""" something that isn't broken and nobody was complaining about

 

This was a tank that was balanced to fight vs tier X targets at first. Do you really think that the same balance will work vs tier 3? That camo, mobility, pen and DPM would just rape anything as top tier. It needed a little smack as it was not moved up a tier. If it was bumped to tier 6. Then yeah sure. But at tier 5 still? No.

 

And IMO on test it was still fun. I could still do the same things, still be sneaky as all heck, and still punish and smack anything that did dare to go into the open. Gun handling is better on the move now vs before. But the loss of the top speed and power to weight? It's on pair with the other tier 5 lights now. As IMO the old stats it would be no competition for key spots vs those.



Coal_fighter #10 Posted 04 April 2017 - 04:05 AM

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Prototype turret with 90mm gun, looks fully functional to me ;) went under the name ELC 90

Image result for ELC 90

 



captainpigg #11 Posted 04 April 2017 - 04:17 AM

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Surprised that no-one has mentioned that will now get vertical stabilizers now. So a tank with camo, speed, view-range and high alpha is weak?

Circon seemed to get a good giggle out of its new stats. 



r00barb #12 Posted 04 April 2017 - 04:43 AM

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View Postcaptainpigg, on 04 April 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:

Surprised that no-one has mentioned that will now get vertical stabilizers now.

 

Because it'll make the square root of naff all difference to the 90mm and no one cares about the 75mm option.



TankkiPoju #13 Posted 04 April 2017 - 08:19 AM

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View Postcaptainpigg, on 04 April 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

Surprised that no-one has mentioned that will now get vertical stabilizers now. So a tank with camo, speed, view-range and high alpha is weak?

Circon seemed to get a good giggle out of its new stats. 

 

Circon also said the 75mm might be a better gun for the tank... which might be true, depending on how you play the tank.

Dropman12 #14 Posted 04 April 2017 - 08:44 AM

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View Postmitoma333, on 03 April 2017 - 10:40 PM, said:

With all the new updates coming in I could rant about how wargaming is making the game more and more 'pay to be competitive' or how crapI think their artillery update is. But that's not the case....

 

It's this:

 

https://ritastatusreport.live/2017/02/17/supertest-tier-5-light-tank-stats/

 

And I personally get the feeling that wargaming is trying to sneak this one in because they know that they'll get a s**tload of critique for it.

It's an enormous nerf to a tier 5 light tank that currently is quite balanced.

Major changes are the hp nerf, the damage nerf and penetration nerf.

I personally do not see the need for this change. It already has major drawbacks (like the fact you don't have a freaking turret or when a heavy tanks sneezes in your direction you lose half your hp), sure with the new matchmaking it would become a stronger tank (the new matchmaker would allow the amx elc bis to be top tier), but currently there are other tanks that they should look at rather then the amx elc and quite frankly even as a top tier it wouldn't be OP, it has crapaccuracy, low hp, no armor and a long reload.

This tank is not only an icon in the french light tank tech tree but there are entire clans build around this tank and nerfing it would just be an enormous blow to elc lovers (me included).

 

Once again, wargaming is """"fixing"""" something that isn't broken and nobody was complaining about

 

If they really feel the need to balance this tank, please just put it a tier higher, but don't nerf it

 

 

Only one complaining were those on the other side. Cause light tank which could face T5 and had one of the best mobility and camo and gun which was capable penetrating everything frontaly and same alpha as T8 meds was far from balanced. You should be fair, and stop pretending it is balanced tank. Hell, I was even actively hunting lone KTs and KV4s in mine, because it was so easy to farm them on facehug. So no, its not balanced. Its sealclub vehicle. To give him regular MM and dont nerf him? Seriously?

scottmarkNL #15 Posted 04 April 2017 - 08:56 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 04 April 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

 

Circon also said the 75mm might be a better gun for the tank... which might be true, depending on how you play the tank.

 

https://youtu.be/YDtKxzaFIO8?t=4522

i dont think so...he said..."who the Edited is gonna use the 75? answer  no one"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Asklepi0s, 02 June 2017 - 10:40 AM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


tajj7 #16 Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:01 AM

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Be good to see the end of ELC stat padders clubbing their way through mid tier games. The tank was balanced against potentially seeing tier 10, it then at most saw tier 9s, then got buffed even more by max seeing tier 8s, with a gun with more pen than the Hellcat, on a faster, more stealthy platform.

 

The tank now sees tier 3s and max sees tier 7s, plus with the new MM it'll see at worse 3 tier 7s in a game so it HAD to be nerfed and nerfed a lot. People do realise that it takes until tier 7 for mediums to get 240 alpha guns, tier 7 and this is one tier 5 with 240 alpha, it's able to one shot tier 3s and some tier 4s with ease. 

 

I also reckon WG know that there are so many ELC padders out there with 3+ skill crews on these things, maxed out view range so decided to tone it down as much as possible. 

 

No sympathy from me, the tank was unbalanced as it was, exploited by a lot of players who basically used it for sealclubbing. They could have made it a tier 7 or something and that would have been fine with me but I guess WG didn't want to break up the line of autoloaders. 



mitoma333 #17 Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:06 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 04 April 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

 

Circon also said the 75mm might be a better gun for the tank... which might be true, depending on how you play the tank.

 

Not rlly, now you have to start giving [edited]about armor. Usully with 175 mm pen you could shoot at anything as long as you aimed at weakspots, with 110 pen you basically have a peashooter compared to the 90mm in my opinion. Just up it a tier with a bit better accuracy

mitoma333 #18 Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:17 AM

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View PostDropman12, on 04 April 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

 

Only one complaining were those on the other side. Cause light tank which could face T5 and had one of the best mobility and camo and gun which was capable penetrating everything frontaly and same alpha as T8 meds was far from balanced. You should be fair, and stop pretending it is balanced tank. Hell, I was even actively hunting lone KTs and KV4s in mine, because it was so easy to farm them on facehug. So no, its not balanced. Its sealclub vehicle. To give him regular MM and dont nerf him? Seriously?

 

You were only capable of penetrating it frontally if you actually managed to hit (also I'm strongly against the use of gold ammo so never used the prem shells) it. The ELC has a gun with the behaviour of a BL-10. Also don't forget: the tank was op cause there were so many players who played that tank over and over and over. For a new player this tank is crap, put any tank in the hands of good players and let them play it over and over again and it'll seem like an op tank. If it rlly was that op then why could it never win against other light tanks? It was strong in some aspects but incredibly weak in others



Jazzy_Jeff #19 Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:25 AM

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I actually think the 75mm will be better. That way you can shoot while racing around, which is almost impossible with the 90mm. or you have to joust your enemy. With the 90mm you can't really attack other light tanks.

The speed nerf might be more of an issue.



mitoma333 #20 Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:28 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 04 April 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

The tank now sees tier 3s and max sees tier 7s, plus with the new MM it'll see at worse 3 tier 7s in a game so it HAD to be nerfed and nerfed a lot. People do realise that it takes until tier 7 for mediums to get 240 alpha guns, tier 7 and this is one tier 5with 240 alpha, it's able to one shot tier 3s and some tier 4s with ease. 

 

I also reckon WG know that there are so many ELC padders out there with 3+ skill crews on these things, maxed out view range so decided to tone it down as much as possible. 

 

 

I see you have this information from the many elc games you've played. 

It might have had the same damage, not the same gun, no turning turret and accuracy was crap.

Also if the tanks is rlly 'super op' why is it's current overall winrate 49.68%? Just look at all the other op tier 5's (http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=5&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=won_lost_ratio&server=) that wargaming is doing nothing about. Tanks that have a GLOBAL 55% wine rate, but nah look at the tank with a 49% global winrate.






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