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AMX ELC bis huge nerf

AMX ELC bis nerf light tank update

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Poll: AMX ELC nerf (349 members have cast votes)

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Are these changes necessary?

  1. NO, they aren't needed (262 votes [74.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 74.64%

  2. YES, they are needed (89 votes [25.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.36%

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mitoma333 #21 Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:34 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 04 April 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

 

I also reckon WG know that there are so many ELC padders out there with 3+ skill crews on these things, maxed out view range so decided to tone it down as much as possible. 

 

No sympathy from me, the tank was unbalanced as it was, exploited by a lot of players who basically used it for sealclubbing. They could have made it a tier 7 or something and that would have been fine with me but I guess WG didn't want to break up the line of autoloaders. 

 

 

If the tanks is rlly 'super op' why is it's current overall winrate 49.68%? Just look at all the other op tier 5's (http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=5&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=won_lost_ratio&server=)

 

"I also reckon WG know that there are so many ELC padders out there with 3+ skill crews on these things, maxed out view range  so decided to tone it down as much as possible. 

Yes and you know how we got there, through grinding, for a non premium player it takes 1000 battles to complete the first three skills (unless it's female) starting from a 50% crew and now wargaming is basically saying: nah, [edited]you. Also maxout out view range is impossible whilst driving, you should know that with all your elc experience ... oooh wait .... 



ZlatanArKung #22 Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:46 AM

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Making it a T6 without changes woule havr been preferable. 

Or buff it (reload and maybe some gun-handling) and make it a T7.

 

It is a unique tank and should stay unique. By giving it a full turret and nerfing speed you make it another generic T5 light.

 

And I don't think this game needs another generic T5 light.

Same problem as VK 16.02 really. WG removed what made it different, so now it is just a generic T6 light. 



Schmeksiman #23 Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:53 AM

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View Postmitoma333, on 04 April 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

If the tanks is rlly 'super op' why is it's current overall winrate 49.68%? Just look at all the other op tier 5's (http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=5&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=won_lost_ratio&server=)

 

Because the tank has high skill requirement? Any tomato can do well in a KV-1 or O-I exp because it's just easy to play and forgiving.

But it requires brains to play ELC effectively. Anyone that was half decent could exploit it's camo rating and gun so bad, it's a dream tank for padding stats. It didn't really make a difference if you faced tier 6 or tier 9, that's how powerful it is atm.



Xandania #24 Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:03 PM

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Can't say I bother much about the new gun or the old one for that matter, but I'd like to see its mobility restored or rather left untouched. The sluggish version on the testserver is hell on wheels T_T

Industrain #25 Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:33 PM

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I'm happy with ELC being heavily nerfed, it's well deserved, considering how borderline OP it is. Now only T67 needs to be nerfed into the ground, to make mid tiers a much better experience. No sympathy at all to people crying about nerfs to their easy mode tanks.

tajj7 #26 Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:43 PM

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View Postmitoma333, on 04 April 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

 

I see you have this information from the many elc games you've played. 

It might have had the same damage, not the same gun, no turning turret and accuracy was crap.

Also if the tanks is rlly 'super op' why is it's current overall winrate 49.68%? Just look at all the other op tier 5's (http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=5&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=won_lost_ratio&server=) that wargaming is doing nothing about. Tanks that have a GLOBAL 55% wine rate, but nah look at the tank with a 49% global winrate.

 

Global win rates are largely meaningless (and 49.68% is hardly bad for a regular tank, most of those you have listed there are premiums which have good crews played by good players) it takes into no account of who is actually playing the tank.

 

Most ELC players will be newbies, grinding the lines with little experience in light tank play or knowledge about the vision mechanics, so they won't do well.

 

Doesn't mean the ELC doesn't have extremely abusable characteristics for experienced players, especially at those tiers where most players will be new to the game, have bad crews and are playing stock. it's very similar to the T67, which people also use to stat pad and sealclub. Most new players suck in the T67 as well.

 

It's funny because of the tier 5 tanks you have played at least 100 games in, the ELC, T67, AT-2 and the Bishop by far have your highest WRs, all completely balanced tanks there, kappa.

 

If the ELC is so balanced, how come you struggle so much in your KV-1, Type T34 and Pz 4H in comparison? 



K_A #27 Posted 04 April 2017 - 12:53 PM

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View Postmitoma333, on 04 April 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

 

If the tanks is rlly 'super op' why is it's current overall winrate 49.68%? Just look at all the other op tier 5's (http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=5&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=won_lost_ratio&server=)

 

 

 

If you look at those stats you'll also see that clearly OP tanks like M4 Improved and Matilda IV are a full 3% higher than T67, and I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who genuinely thinks a Matilda IV is a better sealclubbing tank than T67.



SuperDuperOtter #28 Posted 04 April 2017 - 01:07 PM

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I think most changes made to the ELC are necessary to balance it for the new MM,  excepted the mobility changes. That one isn't necessary when accounting other changes and it greatly impact what made this little bugger fun to play.

 

I'd rather have the ELC going up Tiers than all of this thought. Maybe ditch the 90mm from the Tier 5 version and have a ELC 90mm Higher in Tiers ?


Edited by Kharlos76, 04 April 2017 - 01:08 PM.


mitoma333 #29 Posted 04 April 2017 - 01:52 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 04 April 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

 

It's funny because of the tier 5 tanks you have played at least 100 games in, the ELC, T67, AT-2 and the Bishop by far have your highest WRs, all completely balanced tanks there, kappa.

 

If the ELC is so balanced, how come you struggle so much in your KV-1, Type T34 and Pz 4H in comparison? 

 

AT2 is balanced because of MM, bishop is just OP but as long as they don't fix that I'm usng it

 

KV-1, T-34 and PZ IV were all tanks I played in my first 1000 games where I played with 50% crews and no idea what was what. Let me play a kv 1 now with a good crew and I'll get a 55% win rate on it



mitoma333 #30 Posted 04 April 2017 - 01:54 PM

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They just want to remove every unique tank unless it's premium.

I have an idea, let's just streamline everything, give all tank the same DPM, the same penetration the same speed and armor, that way no tank can be considered 'OP'.



VasilijeN #31 Posted 04 April 2017 - 01:57 PM

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I played it long ago... I never bothered to master it, so it was meh at best. Also, playing it like a TD was so much fun, but rather soon your team starts screaming at you for not spotting... Chill out guys, I'm sniping this game :)

Edited by VasilijeN, 04 April 2017 - 01:57 PM.


VasilijeN #32 Posted 04 April 2017 - 01:59 PM

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View Postmitoma333, on 04 April 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

 

AT2 is balanced because of MM, bishop is just OP but as long as they don't fix that I'm usng it

 

KV-1, T-34 and PZ IV were all tanks I played in my first 1000 games where I played with 50% crews and no idea what was what. Let me play a kv 1 now with a good crew and I'll get a 55% win rate on it

Many tier 7 tanks struggle to penetrate AT-2 from front... Tier 5 tanks usually can't even from sides... It is either OP or useless, never balanced, depending on map



mitoma333 #33 Posted 04 April 2017 - 02:02 PM

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View PostVasilijeN, on 04 April 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

Many tier 7 tanks struggle to penetrate AT-2 from front... Tier 5 tanks usually can't even from sides... It is either OP or useless, never balanced, depending on map

 

Tier 7's .... yeah sure if they don't know where to shoot, and idk what tier 5's you're talking about but usually tier 5's can penetrate the weakspots. Sure if you just aim at the middle of the tank you won't penetrate it, but if you actually aim there's not much of an issue especially at close range

VasilijeN #34 Posted 04 April 2017 - 02:04 PM

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View Postmitoma333, on 04 April 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

 

Tier 7's .... yeah sure if they don't know where to shoot, and idk what tier 5's you're talking about but usually tier 5's can penetrate the weakspots. Sure if you just aim at the middle of the tank you won't penetrate it, but if you actually aim there's not much of an issue especially at close range

I know, but often you meet AT-2 on distance of 200+ m... Aiming for weakspots isn't always an option



Thrael7 #35 Posted 04 April 2017 - 02:11 PM

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Are we talking about balance at tier5? Aren't there Tier3-4s that have ~120pen?:child:

 

Yes, WG balances stuff because they care for players and resent clubbers.


Edited by Thrael7, 04 April 2017 - 02:15 PM.


Aoishi #36 Posted 04 April 2017 - 02:16 PM

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View PostIndustrain, on 04 April 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

I'm happy with ELC being heavily nerfed, it's well deserved, considering how borderline OP it is. Now only T67 needs to be nerfed into the ground, to make mid tiers a much better experience. No sympathy at all to people crying about nerfs to their easy mode tanks.

 

Please don't nerf my Pz III K.

GrayDwarf #37 Posted 04 April 2017 - 03:26 PM

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View Postmitoma333, on 03 April 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

[..]

Major changes are the hp nerf, the damage nerf and penetration nerf. 

[..]

 

 

All of this I could life with. But the mobility nerf is what breaks it for me. It is now slower and less nimble than the Chaffee or the T67. In fact if you compare the new versions on tanks.gg, you will see that the Chaffee is now better in all mobility stats - better power/weight, better hull traverse, etc. The only reason to pick the ELC over the Chaffee now would be the alpha on the 90 mm, and it sure felt like the nerfed the soft stats on this one as well.

Edited by GrayDwarf, 04 April 2017 - 03:27 PM.


Lord_Edge #38 Posted 04 April 2017 - 04:05 PM

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View PostCoal_fighter, on 03 April 2017 - 11:59 PM, said:

And to make up for the nerf to the damage it will be getting full functioning turret, and that is a huge buff to this tank.

So they are technically and historically butchering the tank in two ways (giving it a turret it never had along with de-facto removing it's 90mm cannon).

 

Why are they doing this? Stupid nerf is stupid.

 

If they thought it was OP then they should have just given it siege mode like a Swedish TD! (it was designed as a sort of light tank TD hybrid, being airlifted in to nip about ruining the day of IS tanks).


Edited by Ubersonic, 04 April 2017 - 04:07 PM.


mitoma333 #39 Posted 04 April 2017 - 05:06 PM

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View PostVasilijeN, on 04 April 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

I know, but often you meet AT-2 on distance of 200+ m... Aiming for weakspots isn't always an option

 

If he has the derp gun or is shooting premium ammo, that might be a problem, otherwise he'll usually bounce unless you give him your side armor

mitoma333 #40 Posted 04 April 2017 - 05:07 PM

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View PostUbersonic, on 04 April 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

So they are technically and historically butchering the tank in two ways (giving it a turret it never had along with de-facto removing it's 90mm cannon).

 

Why are they doing this? Stupid nerf is stupid.

 

If they thought it was OP then they should have just given it siege mode like a Swedish TD! (it was designed as a sort of light tank TD hybrid, being airlifted in to nip about ruining the day of IS tanks).

 

Or move it up a tier :p just switch amx 12T and ELC AMX or put the elc at tier 6 as and alternative to the amx12t and find a new tier 5

Edited by mitoma333, 04 April 2017 - 05:07 PM.





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