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DON'T NERF MY RU251! LIGHT TANK NERF IS RUINING THE CLASS!1

LT DEAD UNPLAYABLE NERFED WG HATES LIGHTS

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Francesco_Totti_ #1 Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:54 PM

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Doesn't the title look familiar? There have been multiple threads about this subject. Light tanks as the class are being killed off. WG hates lights. RU 251 is going to turn unplayable, ELC is doomed and WZ-132 is being nerfed to death. The list goes on. The common factor seems to be that light tanks right now are epic tanks and Wargaming are going to turn them unplayable in a single patch. It's a cruel world.

 

Before I go any further I'd like to add that this text only concerns random battles and no modes like clan wars or skirmishes that break the matchmaking system by making every tank top tier every time, even tanks with scout matchmaking that are never ever top tier in randoms with the exception of the matchmaker screwing up.

 

I have never been a huge fan of light tanks by myself but over time I've learned that light tanking is the coke snorting of World of Tanks. It turns many otherwise knowledgeable, intelligent people into complete imbeciles who are making no sense. All the data says that light tanks are a useless class. Wargaming has admitted that light tanks are good only for completing missions and mediums are a better choice for anything else. Statistically light tanks are unimpressive to say the least. Light tanks are underperforming for any decent player and they have a tendency to be closer to 50% win rate for anyone because they are insignificant. The irony is that playing light tanks actually makes sense to the worst players of the game because for them the scout matchmaking is a blessing - being an irrelevant tank is a good thing for a bad player and actually has a positive impact on his personal performance because he never wastes an important tank for the team. He can make his mongol push and throw his tank away within the first minute without handicapping his team too much. If he made plays as bad as this with a medium, heavy or TD it would be a significant blow for the team. 

 

Light tanks also have by a long margin the lowest expected damage of their tier. T-34-2 is a medium tank that's widely considered the worst(or very close) among tier 8 mediums that are some of the weakest tanks in the game yet it is expected to deal more damage than any of the "awesome" tier 8 light tanks like T-54 Lightweight, RU 251 or the German Bulldog. If you went to compare the expected damage of a tier 8 light tank and any tier 9 tank(that once again have the same matchmaking as tier 8 lights) the difference is shocking. But hey, these are just boring numbers. Light tanks are awesome and if there's any excuse, no matter how flawed, to support this claim it's going to happen. Screw the data and logical reasoning. Light tanks rule <3!

 

I'm a hopelessly bad sleeper and the first thing that goes with bad sleep is your memory. Like scout matchmaking that can sometimes be a blessing in a pretty twisted way. I'd probably also have issues with my blood pressure if I could remember half of the instances when I have had to hold someone's hand and explain to them slowly, step-by-step, why light tanks are irrelevant and that tier 8 light tanks are not awesome even though on paper they are better than tier 8 mediums. How difficult scout matchmaking as a concept is to grasp? It's very straightforward, yet most people seem to completely deny its existence. When your tank sees battle tiers 9, 10 and 11(aka tier 9 matchmaking) why do you compare it to tanks that see battle tiers 8, 9 and 10 that are effectively a tier lower? Who cares if your tank is tier 8 in paper if it's never going to see tier 8 battles? The saddest part is that these players are usually competent players. There's just some magical force about light tanking that seems to cloud their vision.

 

There is a lot of negativity going on in this community. I have at times contributed to it, and sometimes it's justified. I can understand people being butthurt over their preorder tank being sold after a strict promise to never sell it again and that's fine - players should express their opinions in such cases. However there is also lots of zero value whining going on and that's exactly what what this "light tank nerf" as a topic is. So, I'll just put it simple and go with the logic. Your tier 7 light tanks have effectively been tier 8 tanks and your tier 8 lights have effectively been tier 9 tanks. Those are the tanks you have been sharing matchmaking with and therefore the tanks you should compare your light tank to. Just going to tanks.gg and comparing your tier 8 light tank to other tier 8s "cuz is same tier" is retarded. Try to leave the "light tanks are awesome" mentality for a moment and be realistic. Outside of CWs and skirmishes your light tanks have been the definition of "irrelevant" for a long, long time and you should be grateful that Wargaming are finally doing something about this.

 

Let's take a look at RU-251, which has apparently been decimated:

 

Let's get this straight once more to be sure. In 9.17.1 RU-251 saw battle tiers 9, 10 and 11. After patch 9.18 RU-251 will see battle tiers 9, 10 and 11. This means it effectively retained its tier although on paper it went from 8 to 9. Your RU-251 lost 277 DPM and 10km/h of its top speed. Because the top speed is still 70km/h the top speed nerf is hardly relevant. In return you got a massive engine buff(10.67 hp/t), much better gun handling, 25 more penetration and the atrocious ebola diarrhea aids shell velocity that is the main reason why I hated the tank is finally gone. You can now lead shots without expecting your shell to fly 5m above your enemy tank, you can punish players who make quick peeks and leading shots is going to be more effective. That alone would have been a great buff, but I already listed quite a few others and there are a few more to come: 200 more health, better module health, 10m of view range and lower engine fire chance. That 277 DPM you are paying is a pretty cheap price for all this if you ask me.

 

I ran similar scans of WZ-132. That tank loses 20m of view range, some 100 DPM and a bit of base accuracy. In return it gets much better turret traverse bloom and effectively goes one tier lower. Anyone who says a much slower tier 9 tank with 20m more view range, 100 more DPM and a bit of base accuracy is better than a tier 8 tank with those downsides and much better turret traverse bloom plus like 8hp/t more is just delusional. Sorry guys, your WZ-132 is getting massive buffs in here and all I see is whining.

 

There is a lot of BS going on around that mediums will now be better scouts because some lights lose view range. Even 380 view range is easy to get into astronomical levels and when you combine that with a much better camo and the fact that lights retain their camo on the move, lights are still much better scouts. Lights are also getting massive speed buff and they should now be substantially faster than mediums which allows them to take superior positions early on. This has always been a glaring flaw with lights - a slightly bad spawn point often resulted in an enemy medium shooting your side when you make an early hill rush or something. This is now less of a problem. Yes, you are losing a bit of redline sniping potential with worse base accuracy but if you are trying to do something useful the bloom is usually more relevant anyway. The DPM loss is unfortunate but hey, your gun generally needs to nerfed a little bit when you go down an entire tier.

 

As I said above, I have personally never cared about light tanks that much and except for AMX 13 57(which is going to be awesome btw) I have never enjoyed playing them because I never felt like I was doing anything useful on them. Whatever my light tank could do, a tier higher medium could do better. Now, after the patch I can see myself playing more light tanks because they are going to be much more useful and relevant. Any light tank lover who is resisting these changes is shooting his own leg. You can make an argument that tier 10 lights are worse than tier 10 mediums. If that's what you want to whine about, you may have a point. If you want to whine about the new tier 9-10 tanks, be my guest. The old tanks that were uptiered like RU-251 are retaining their current matchmaking but are much better than they were before the patch. They are new tanks as the game has never seen tier 9-10 light tanks and balancing them can be tricky. Feedback is definitely welcome in that front.  But please, can we stop whining about the light tanks as class dying because "they are being nerfed to oblivion"? There can be individual cases when a light tank becomes worse compared to its peers. I haven't inspected all, especially the lower tiers. However, light tanks as a class are getting hardcore buffs and lots of love here. Stop whining if you like to play them. 

 

 

Thanks,

A friend of Tony and Per.


Edited by Francesco_Totti_, 21 April 2017 - 06:49 PM.


_Anarchistic_ #2 Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:00 PM

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I am not sure how its decimated?

 

sure less dpm and slower top speed but everything else green

 

Gun handling and pen much better, and shell velocity will make it much easier

engine power, soft stats better so I assume that top speed will be got to much faster, I often fail to get to 80 and I lose speed in turns, so hopefully overall the tank perform at a generally faster speed 

 

as the role of lights is primarily information and stealth with late game clean up I am not sure where the issue is

 



Gixxer66 #3 Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:51 PM

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So why didn't you use the 13/90 as an example? with it's 380M View Range as a T9 scout, 2K DPM and less then 1K clip potential, and worse std ammo pen than all the other T9 lights ( discounting the derp on the T49)

 

Only the RU and T49 have 410M VR all the other T9 lights are 390 or less. The WZ-120 or T-54 are much more rounded vehicles than the lights of the same tier, have the same base VR, and only really suffer. In completely std set up the T54Lwt has 0.4% camo advantage over the T54, the 132A has 0.66% camo advantage vs WZ120, and is the same after firing. Hell they are only 4% better on the move.

 

I don't see where T9 lights are OP compared to same tier Meds or even a match. Why would you drive a 132A over a 120 or 54lwt instead of a T-54?



Francesco_Totti_ #4 Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:12 PM

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View PostGixxer66, on 21 April 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

So why didn't you use the 13/90 as an example? with it's 380M View Range as a T9 scout, 2K DPM and less then 1K clip potential, and worse std ammo pen than all the other T9 lights ( discounting the derp on the T49)

 

Only the RU and T49 have 410M VR all the other T9 lights are 390 or less. The WZ-120 or T-54 are much more rounded vehicles than the lights of the same tier, have the same base VR, and only really suffer. In completely std set up the T54Lwt has 0.4% camo advantage over the T54, the 132A has 0.66% camo advantage vs WZ120, and is the same after firing. Hell they are only 4% better on the move.

 

I don't see where T9 lights are OP compared to same tier Meds or even a match. Why would you drive a 132A over a 120 or 54lwt instead of a T-54?

 

Let's see. AMX 13 90 loses 20m of view range and 2 shells from its clip. In return it's getting 400 more DPM, getting Vertical Stabilizer and enormous gun handling buffs even without it which result in its dispersion on the move/traverse/turret traverse to be less than 50% of its current and the aiming time is 0.3 seconds better. Even the after shot bloom is better. The new AMX 13 90 also gets 0.5sec off intraclip reload and it gets the much more practical 4 shot clip. Sure it can't clip tanks with 1.2k health anymore but it's much less clunky and it hits it shells for a change. Honestly with the gun handling and lifelong intraclip reload 13 90 almost never clipped anything. The autoloader was extremely unpractical to say the least and after missing 2 of the first 3 shells you were in an ugly spot because you only had 3 derpy shells left but on the other hand reloading would take an eternity.

 

Ammo capacity is also going to increase, shell velocity is going to be excellent and AMX 13 90 is getting almost 8 hp/t ratio which is a huge mobility buff. It's also getting much better effective traverse and more durable modules.


Oh, and in practice 13 90 is going to keep its current matchmaking. Damn with these nerfs, they totally ruin our OP lights!

 

If you can't scout with 380m view range and the great camo that 13 90 has that it keeps on the move, the problem is probably not in the tank. The only player who can see this as a bad change is the type of a guy who takes camo net and binocs to his tier 8 light tank and tries to force a passive scouting strategy that hasn't been useful for years. For anyone who is trying to play the game this is once again a big, big buff.

As I said I am not going to discuss the new tier 9-10 lights in this thread. That's not the point. Those tanks are new and it's hard to compare them to anything just yet. Here we have old tanks that are getting buffs and going down an entire tier yet people who think the essence of light tanking is sitting in a bush with binocs and camo net think these are nerfs.


Edited by Francesco_Totti_, 21 April 2017 - 06:49 PM.


Gixxer66 #5 Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:35 PM

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Out of curiosity have you played the 9.18 Tier 9 lights on the Sandbox, CT or NA ? Either with or without camo net and or binos? :)

 

BTW nice passive / aggressive posting.

 



Francesco_Totti_ #6 Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:51 PM

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View PostGixxer66, on 21 April 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

Out of curiosity have you played the 9.18 Tier 9 lights on the Sandbox, CT or NA ? Either with or without camo net and or binos? :)

 

BTW nice passive / aggressive posting.

 

 

I [edited]ed up a few things, they're fixed in the post now. I won't go deeper into how competitive tier 9 lights will, but for sure they are going to be more competitive than the old tier 8 lights that had the same matchmaking. So either way, light tanks win and are going to be more competitive. Even if the number goes from tier 8 to tier 9 in some cases.


Edited by Francesco_Totti_, 21 April 2017 - 06:51 PM.


Balc0ra #7 Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:25 PM

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RU is actually one of the lights most of NA likes more vs now. Most have tossed off the camo net and have rammer & vents on it. It's something I see as a top damage dealer on NA rather often. I don't have any high tier lights on NA. But besides tier 6 light I had that was rendered useless "VK 28 01". I've had fun with all of mine still.

Edited by Balc0ra, 21 April 2017 - 07:26 PM.


lonigus #8 Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:50 PM

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The biggest downside of the RU251 imo was the shell velocity which is getting a significant buff. Almost all buffs across the board except the DPM and abit less max speed.

__Guzuzu__ #9 Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:12 PM

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I honestly have mixed feelings about those tanks.Having tried everything (Tier 8-10) I can say that while on paper they seem really bad,they behave nicely and feel like backup to actual Mediums.If you can even do same spotting and 3/4 of their damage it is not really bad.

 

The only bad one is Sheridan,the huge gun is bad and the other one is just meh.






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