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What is your opinion on these suggestions for Premium Shells?

gold premium shells gold ammo premium ammo HEAT APCR

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Poll: What are your opinions on these suggestions? (72 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Set hard limits to how many premium shells you can carry in a tank at once?

  1. I like the idea. (38 votes [52.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.78%

  2. I do not like the idea. (27 votes [37.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.50%

  3. I don't know. (1 vote [1.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.39%

  4. I don't care any way. (6 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

Make premium shells "more realistic" in a sense (APCR loses far more pen over distance and deals reduced damage, HEAT has no significant changes in pen but doesn't lose pen over distance)?

  1. I like the idea. (23 votes [31.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.94%

  2. I don't like the idea. (31 votes [43.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.06%

  3. I don't know. (7 votes [9.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.72%

  4. I don't care any way. (11 votes [15.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.28%

Increase the price of premium shells?

  1. I like the idea. (11 votes [15.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.28%

  2. I don't like the idea. (51 votes [70.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 70.83%

  3. I don't know. (3 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  4. I don't care any way. (7 votes [9.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.72%

Remove premium shells all together?

  1. I like the idea. (18 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  2. I don't like the idea. (47 votes [65.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 65.28%

  3. I don't know. (3 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  4. I don't care any way. (4 votes [5.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

Reduce the current penetration values of premium shells?

  1. I like the idea. (20 votes [27.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.78%

  2. I don't like the idea. (46 votes [63.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.89%

  3. I don't know. (3 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  4. I don't care any way. (3 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

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Eddlicious #1 Posted 10 May 2017 - 01:06 PM

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Everyone knows what "gold shells" are. They're a secondary type of (mostly) armor piercing shells with massive penetration values (and sometimes increased damage on the premium HE(SH) variants).

 

Personal opinion? Do not like them one bit in their current state. Top 25 clans and those with big fat wallets, love to spam these shells - taking skill and need to learn how to play away from the game, as majority of these premium shells work in an almost "fire and forget" fashion. Clan players get their shells through passive gold gained from clan wars and those with more money than others just buy silver/gold from the premium shop, to spend on premium shells.

 

So here is a poll. There are questions on the poll with suggestions, and it'd be nice if you could at least vote on the poll. Even better if you vote and post down below, share your thoughts a bit more. If you have any suggestions of your own that weren't listed in the poll, please share them!

 

 

Note: About question two - currently APCR shells do as much damage as AP and lose more or less the same amount of pen over distance & HEAT shells have stupidly ridiculous amounts of penetration to accommodate for the lack of normalization (which shouldn't be done, the fact that it loses no pen should be the reason to get HEAT). Hence the suggestions in Question 2 and "making them more realistic" in a sense.

 

 

 



The_Wallet_Warrior #2 Posted 10 May 2017 - 01:21 PM

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View PostEddlicious, on 10 May 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

Everyone knows what "gold shells" are. They're a secondary type of (mostly) armor piercing shells with massive penetration values (and sometimes increased damage on the premium HE(SH) variants).

 

Personal opinion? Do not like them one bit in their current state. Top 25 clans and those with big fat wallets, love to spam these shells - taking skill and need to learn how to play away from the game, as majority of these premium shells work in an almost "fire and forget" fashion. Clan players get their shells through passive gold gained from clan wars and those with more money than others just buy silver/gold from the premium shop, to spend on premium shells.

 

So here is a poll. There are questions on the poll with suggestions, and it'd be nice if you could at least vote on the poll. Even better if you vote and post down below, share your thoughts a bit more. If you have any suggestions of your own that weren't listed in the poll, please share them!

 

 

Note: About question two - currently APCR shells do as much damage as AP and lose more or less the same amount of pen over distance & HEAT shells have stupidly ridiculous amounts of penetration to accommodate for the lack of normalization (which shouldn't be done, the fact that it loses no pen should be the reason to get HEAT). Hence the suggestions in Question 2 and "making them more realistic" in a sense.

 

 

 

 

Your ideas are terrible - simply make them purchasable by gold only - that will eliminate 90% of gold spammers!

Dropman12 #3 Posted 10 May 2017 - 01:31 PM

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What is difference between using consumable for 3k to repair track and shot from good angle and using 4k for premium ammo and shot from bad angle? I can see none. Its all about how many silver you are going to use to make your changes better. But one is fine for everybody, second is hated by some...


 

And if you think premium ammo makes you penetrating everything without aim than I'd suggest you to actually try it. Or think more about importance of prem ammo in current state of game, where frontal engagements are prevalent and maps usually dont allow flanking.



Hedgehog1963 #4 Posted 10 May 2017 - 01:43 PM

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Stupid poll asking me whether APCR should lose penetration over distance... it already does.

 

As in all these cases I'm left wondering whether OP even understands that many tanks fire APCR as standard.


Edited by Hedgehog1963, 10 May 2017 - 01:45 PM.


antoine130 #5 Posted 10 May 2017 - 01:45 PM

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APCR (not as standard ammo) already has considerable penetration loss up to 500 meters its mostly useless

NiemandXL #6 Posted 10 May 2017 - 02:15 PM

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The problem is not just gold shells, but also stupid tanks that require spamming gold to pen them. The Japanese heavies are some of the worst offenders. It's hilarious how many same, let alone lower tier tanks, can not pen the Japanese tier 7 heavy even in the rear without spamming skill rounds! Game balance has become a total joke. And you really want to limit skill rounds with the current overabundance of corridor maps and Maus and Type 5 already reigning supreme?

 

Can you imagine 2 Maus fighting each other only with AP? You will get something like this:



Bucifel #7 Posted 10 May 2017 - 02:27 PM

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View PostNiemandXL, on 10 May 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

The problem is not just gold shells, but also stupid tanks that require spamming gold to pen them. The Japanese heavies are some of the worst offenders. It's hilarious how many same, let alone lower tier tanks, can not pen the Japanese tier 7 heavy even in the rear without spamming skill rounds! Game balance has become a total joke. And you really want to limit skill rounds with the current overabundance of corridor maps and Maus and Type 5 already reigning supreme?

 

Can you imagine 2 Maus fighting each other only with AP? You will get something like this:

 

best example about importance of WEAKPOINTS :teethhappy:

with 2 Maus with 0 weakpoints...yes, will be a bit weird...:teethhappy:



Eddlicious #8 Posted 10 May 2017 - 03:32 PM

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View PostThe_Wallet_Warrior, on 10 May 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

 

Your ideas are terrible - simply make them purchasable by gold only - that will eliminate 90% of gold spammers!

 

In my opinion, that would be a terrible idea. You would be granting roughly a 10% minority (top clan players) easy access to gold shells, seeing that they are the ones that get gold passively on a monthly basis from the clan wars map. It would be ridiculously unfair.

 

 

 

View PostHedgehog1963, on 10 May 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

Stupid poll asking me whether APCR should lose penetration over distance... it already does.

 

As in all these cases I'm left wondering whether OP even understands that many tanks fire APCR as standard.

 

View Postantoine130, on 10 May 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

APCR (not as standard ammo) already has considerable penetration loss up to 500 meters its mostly useless

 

Nowadays you can look at how much the penetration values drop over distance, by hovering your mouse over the ammunition types available for your vehicle, in garage. Let's take my T110E3 for an example:

 

 

 

 As you can see, there is literally no difference in damage drop off over distance between AP and APCR. This varies depending on the vehicle, but in general the difference is marginal. We are talking 1mm-5mm differences on average between the damage drop offs between AP and APCR.

 

View PostNiemandXL, on 10 May 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

The problem is not just gold shells, but also stupid tanks that require spamming gold to pen them. The Japanese heavies are some of the worst offenders. It's hilarious how many same, let alone lower tier tanks, can not pen the Japanese tier 7 heavy even in the rear without spamming skill rounds! Game balance has become a total joke. And you really want to limit skill rounds with the current overabundance of corridor maps and Maus and Type 5 already reigning supreme?

 

Can you imagine 2 Maus fighting each other only with AP? You will get something like this:

 

Thanks for bringing that up. WG did make a gargantuan screw up with the latest changes to the Maus-line and Jap Heavy-line. Here's my opinion in relation to this:

 

These changes were made because the tanks didn't appear to fulfill their roles as damage soakers that well - reason behind which I think is premium shells. They couldn't hold up against the horrendous onslaught of gold shells they'd receive every single match, getting penned through their strongest armor points (frontal armor), so WG saw this as the tanks being too weak - thus buffing them.

 

That's just my two cents, hopefully it made some sense.


Edited by Eddlicious, 10 May 2017 - 03:37 PM.


Eddlicious #9 Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:42 AM

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I just noticed something funny. APCR shells on the Type B  gun (AT 15 and Tortoise) actually lose less penetration over distance than the AP shells. Take a look:

 

 

AP shells lose 15mm of penetration up to 500m - APCR shells lose 10mm of penetration up to 500m.

 

I am aware that a lot of tanks use APCR as standard ammunition, disclaimer to the person who was wondering in a post above.



Crayon_eating_Muppet #10 Posted 11 May 2017 - 11:55 AM

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"Reduce the current penetration values of premium shells"  More reduce for IS-6 and SU-122-44 :teethhappy:  Its already total crap in tier VIII and tier IX battles 217mm penetration VS tier IX  is joke! It is like other Heavy tank standard penetration. + Both has so ridiculous inaccurate guns even its not funny anymore :popcorn:50% of shells goes to moon or ground or just bounces.



Eddlicious #11 Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:05 PM

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View PostFunkyMoneY, on 11 May 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

"Reduce the current penetration values of premium shells"  More reduce for IS-6 and SU-122-44 :teethhappy:  Its already total crap in tier VIII and tier IX battles 217mm penetration VS tier IX  is joke! It is like other Heavy tank standard penetration. + Both has so ridiculous inaccurate guns even its not funny anymore :popcorn:50% of shells goes to moon or ground or just bounces.

 

Try and look at the whole picture, how premium shells are used across all tanks. I do agree with the IS-6, it relies way too heavily on premium shells (regardless of its impressive armor when top tier), but SU-122-44? That's just fine. It's a Tier VII, it is not supposed to have tremendously good penetration values - it's the DPM that makes that machine.

Gixxer66 #12 Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:58 PM

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View PostEddlicious, on 11 May 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

 

Try and look at the whole picture, how premium shells are used across all tanks. I do agree with the IS-6, it relies way too heavily on premium shells (regardless of its impressive armor when top tier), but SU-122-44? That's just fine. It's a Tier VII, it is not supposed to have tremendously good penetration values - it's the DPM that makes that machine.

 

IS6 meets T9 - yeah thats an issue with 217 APCR pen

SU122-44 meets T9 not an issue with 217 APCR pen

 

News for you if you don't pen your DPM is zero

 

I don't understand the logic, it's not about the lowest tier they can meet but the top Tier they meet.

 

Edit - Amplified by the fact the T8 PMM Chinese tanks get 250mm Premium ammo pen

 


Edited by Gixxer66, 11 May 2017 - 01:00 PM.


Eddlicious #13 Posted 11 May 2017 - 04:33 PM

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View PostGixxer66, on 11 May 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

 

IS6 meets T9 - yeah thats an issue with 217 APCR pen

SU122-44 meets T9 not an issue with 217 APCR pen

 

News for you if you don't pen your DPM is zero

 

I don't understand the logic, it's not about the lowest tier they can meet but the top Tier they meet.

 

Edit - Amplified by the fact the T8 PMM Chinese tanks get 250mm Premium ammo pen

 

 

Well what do you think of the other suggestions? There are five suggestions in total.

armandio #14 Posted 11 May 2017 - 04:37 PM

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View PostEddlicious, on 10 May 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

Everyone knows what "gold shells" are. They're a secondary type of (mostly) armor piercing shells with massive penetration values (and sometimes increased damage on the premium HE(SH) variants).

 

Personal opinion? Do not like them one bit in their current state. Top 25 clans and those with big fat wallets, love to spam these shells - taking skill and need to learn how to play away from the game, as majority of these premium shells work in an almost "fire and forget" fashion. Clan players get their shells through passive gold gained from clan wars and those with more money than others just buy silver/gold from the premium shop, to spend on premium shells.

 

So here is a poll. There are questions on the poll with suggestions, and it'd be nice if you could at least vote on the poll. Even better if you vote and post down below, share your thoughts a bit more. If you have any suggestions of your own that weren't listed in the poll, please share them!

 

 

Note: About question two - currently APCR shells do as much damage as AP and lose more or less the same amount of pen over distance & HEAT shells have stupidly ridiculous amounts of penetration to accommodate for the lack of normalization (which shouldn't be done, the fact that it loses no pen should be the reason to get HEAT). Hence the suggestions in Question 2 and "making them more realistic" in a sense.

 

 

 

Dont touch gold ammo.:angry:

U want pixel hunting like AW?!?

U want World of Unpenetration?!?

Close your topic.



Signal11th #15 Posted 11 May 2017 - 04:37 PM

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View PostThe_Wallet_Warrior, on 10 May 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

 

Your ideas are terrible - simply make them purchasable by gold only - that will eliminate 90% of gold spammers!

 

Heresy!!!!!!!

AliceUnchained #16 Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:24 PM

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View PostEddlicious, on 10 May 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

Everyone knows what "gold shells" are. 

 

Perhaps. But they don't exist in WoT. And this is where my interest in this thread ends. Saw the Poll options, and it's the same rehashed garbage we've seen a kazillion times before... The only 'spam' there is actually, is the creation of these kind of threads...

 

View PostEddlicious, on 11 May 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

Try and look at the whole picture, how premium shells are used across all tanks. 

 

And this is just hilarious, coming from the person suggesting general changes across the board as if premium rounds are the same on each Tier. I would suggest you look at the bigger picture, and understand how changes would effect vehicles on each Tier and how it would fit with the +/-2 Tier MM.

 

View PostEddlicious, on 11 May 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

I just noticed something funny. APCR shells on the Type B  gun (AT 15 and Tortoise) actually lose less penetration over distance than the AP shells. Take a look:

 

What's even more curious is that the round is listed as APC, or Armor Piercing Capped, and thus isn't APCR all. Not to mention the 20-pounder never fired APCR, but APDS actually. And the standard APCBC wasn't standard at all. Typical Wargaming; utter lack of accuracy, and consistency.



Neyaru #17 Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:31 PM

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I'm getting sick of current premium spam. Its prices should be increased to be used as a last resource, not the primary ammo a tank carries. Why play a heavy tank if you can use a medium, load with premium only and do the same job, but with better mobility, reduced reload time? If the balance for them gets very negative, I doubt they will keep spamming premium, and will be forced to learn to shoot at weak spots or flank a target.

 

B-C 25 t with its insane DPM kills any heavy tank (except if using HE) shooting anywhere.

T-54 armor penetration jumps from 219 to 330mm. wtf?!

Jagdpanzer E 100 with 420mm... No comments.

Churchill III pays 2400 (33%) to deal 7.1% damage of the tank above.


Edited by Neyaru, 11 May 2017 - 06:42 PM.


antoine130 #18 Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:35 PM

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View PostEddlicious, on 10 May 2017 - 03:32 PM, said:

 As you can see, there is literally no difference in damage drop off over distance between AP and APCR. This varies depending on the vehicle, but in general the difference is marginal. We are talking 1mm-5mm differences on average between the damage drop offs between AP and APCR.

 

Well E4 is an exception by the looks of it. I was grinding tier 4 german meds last week, and one of the 50mm guns, i think the one that Luchs shares with those Pz IVs and VKs, with 67 AP pen and 130 APCR? 

Well, that gun has 130 pen APCR that drops to around 60-70 pen at 500 meters, so we are generally not talking 1mm-5mm differences.



Bauggu #19 Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:51 PM

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To this antoine thats one tank not all also no one cares if one tank at low tier has bad gold pen.



Bauggu #20 Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:55 PM

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All apcr rounds should lose 100+mm pen at 500m





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