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ELC AMX bis - PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS PROPOSAL!

ELC AMD bis Rework Proposal

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Poll: ELC AMX bis - CHANGES (73 members have cast votes)

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What to do about ELC

  1. Upgrade to Tier 6 with old stats (24 votes [32.88%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 32.88%

  2. Just upgrade ingine and leave Tier 5 (16 votes [21.92%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.92%

  3. Leave the ELC where it is now (33 votes [45.21%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 45.21%

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tajj7 #61 Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:38 AM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 14 May 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

 

If it is harder to play now than before and yet still a good tank (as you seem to be claiming) wouldn't it be easier to pad stats in, since the majority would do even worse in it making the goal posts even lower?

 

No because it;s WN8 requirements will have been adjusted.

 

Pretty much all lights have had their requirements adjusted because of the MM changes, so it'll basically be no better to pad in than most other tier 5s. 



fabse #62 Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:06 AM

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With the new matchmaker the penetration is more than enough, overall i think the gun is more reliable, maybe because the vehicle is slower. Giving it the old engine would make it insanely OP. Making it tier 6 is an option, but I don’t see the any need to do so. At the moment it is a fun and well balanced tank.

 

Sure, there were these moments, where you could carry the game against t8 tanks but in the majority of battles were really frustrating. I like the way it is right now much more - Consistent fun, not OP.



Potato_Power #63 Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:11 AM

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View Postfabse, on 15 May 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

With the new matchmaker the penetration is more than enough, overall i think the gun is more reliable, maybe because the vehicle is slower. Giving it the old engine would make it insanely OP. Making it tier 6 is an option, but I don’t see the any need to do so. At the moment it is a fun and well balanced tank.

 

Sure, there were these moments, where you could carry the game against t8 tanks but in the majority of battles were really frustrating. I like the way it is right now much more - Consistent fun, not OP.

 

Its no fun to fight babies, and your base damage is seriously high for these tiers now, now ELC is OP because now its a TD and Light tank.. before was 75%light tank and 25%TD.

 

The ELC is not a respected tank anymore on higher tiers



Jeg_er_mig #64 Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:14 AM

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If you use 75mm, i think motor should be as old days,, Chaffie outrun you to spot place.

Potato_Power #65 Posted 17 May 2017 - 11:29 AM

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View PostTHF_DK, on 17 May 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

If you use 75mm, i think motor should be as old days,, Chaffie outrun you to spot place.

 

All i want is the old MM for the ELC, the speed is something i can get over with even tho its stupid :(

apaleytos #66 Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:13 PM

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An engine buff would be welcome.with cheap gas is somehow decent(bleeds speed like a ...  in rough terrain & small obstacles),but still slower than other LTs like leopard etc.At least it should keep the old mobility when the 75mm is mounted.Vstabs is the way to go either using 90mm or 75mm gun.For a 90mm gun pen values are in the low side,they should be at least 135/175 (same as BDR).

Rammer+vstab+binos,90mm gun(spotter/self spotting TD) with cheap gas and SIA crew was the set up i tested it on another account.The mobility was meh but still playable.

 

At least new players will not be frustrated anymore since they can use the 75mm like a normal LT. Back in 2013,i had 140 avg dmg in 60 games(vroum vroum/suiside scout).



r00barb #67 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:03 PM

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View PostPotato_Power, on 15 May 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

??? what is this about, there is a crew skill same as vert stab.

 

Firstly, I found it hard to believe someone could confuse equipment with crew skills.

 

Secondly, Snap Shot offers a smaller bonus than vstabs and only on turret traverse and Smooth Ride offers a likewise smaller bonus and only when the tank is moving in a straight line. Plus the ELC only has two crew, a gunner and a commander who does everything else. If you're training gun skills before concealment and vision on the commander, IMO you're doing it wrong.

 

View Postapaleytos, on 17 May 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

... Vstabs is the way to go either using 90mm or 75mm gun.

 

If a tank can mount vstabs, you mount vstabs. I cannot think of a single reason why you wouldn't because it's such a significant benefit. Personally I wouldn't bother with a rammer on a light, even with the old 90mm on the ELC. You have no armour and it makes more sense to use the fractions of a second saved to get into cover or lose your spot after firing.



Potato_Power #68 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:07 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 17 May 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

Firstly, I found it hard to believe someone could confuse equipment with crew skills.

 

Secondly, Snap Shot offers a smaller bonus than vstabs and only on turret traverse and Smooth Ride offers a likewise smaller bonus and only when the tank is moving in a straight line. Plus the ELC only has two crew, a gunner and a commander who does everything else. If you're training gun skills before concealment and vision on the commander, IMO you're doing it wrong.

 

 

If a tank can mount vstabs, you mount vstabs. I cannot think of a single reason why you wouldn't because it's such a significant benefit. Personally I wouldn't bother with a rammer on a light, even with the old 90mm on the ELC. You have no armour and it makes more sense to use the fractions of a second saved to get into cover or lose your spot after firing.

The reason i confused it is because i remember having a smaller aming circle and i was exploring does it mean less aim time (no its same aim time)

and ELC is overwall too OP right now... before it was actualy more balanced what is kind of funny.. im asking for a nerf lol 

 

ELC is OP now because the base damage is lower and because tanks on lower tiers have less HP its stronk.. and now he doesent need to be that scared vs light tanks because hes HE shell can peneterate more eficiently



r00barb #69 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:14 PM

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View PostPotato_Power, on 17 May 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

The reason i confused it is because i remember having a smaller aming circle and i was exploring does it mean less aim time (no its same aim time)

and ELC is overwall too OP right now... before it was actualy more balanced what is kind of funny.. im asking for a nerf lol 

 

ELC is OP now because the base damage is lower and because tanks on lower tiers have less HP its stronk.. and now he doesent need to be that scared vs light tanks because hes HE shell can peneterate more eficiently

 

You think the ELC is OP now.

 

I know that's exactly what you posted but I had to type it out to believe you really think that. Read any of the ELC threads before and after the patch and you'll see why people are upset. Also, the 90mm isn't really viable even in lower tier battles; it's always been a bit derpy but with 0.38 base accuracy, good luck hitting that weaving Pz. I C that's racing towards you, ready to f*ck your day up with his un-nerfed MG that can easily pen your armour.

 

I met an HE-firing ELC earlier; he did 44 damage to my Type 64 and I took care of him while he tried to reload and failed to use his new mobility to run away. "ELC is OP" ... sheesh. :sceptic:



Jeg_er_mig #70 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:16 PM

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The latest 15 games i being lowtier in T7,,, 1 or 3 games in midtier,,,, iam running whit 75mm, don't need a nerf, was up against a Crommwell on open ground, i could not evade him slide or not, to slow, he just ram me.... slow slow slow....

apaleytos #71 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:19 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 17 May 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

Firstly, I found it hard to believe someone could confuse equipment with crew skills.

 

Secondly, Snap Shot offers a smaller bonus than vstabs and only on turret traverse and Smooth Ride offers a likewise smaller bonus and only when the tank is moving in a straight line. Plus the ELC only has two crew, a gunner and a commander who does everything else. If you're training gun skills before concealment and vision on the commander, IMO you're doing it wrong.

 

 

If a tank can mount vstabs, you mount vstabs. I cannot think of a single reason why you wouldn't because it's such a significant benefit. Personally I wouldn't bother with a rammer on a light, even with the old 90mm on the ELC. You have no armour and it makes more sense to use the fractions of a second saved to get into cover or lose your spot after firing.

 

I agree about vstabs,It was a comment about a guy using GLD in an older post.

I always use rammer unless the reload time is faster than fully aiming time (like a churchil3 for a example).Even it might not be that useful in all cases (like elc) it is my personal taste.



Potato_Power #72 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:22 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 17 May 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

 

You think the ELC is OP now.

 

I know that's exactly what you posted but I had to type it out to believe you really think that. Read any of the ELC threads before and after the patch and you'll see why people are upset. Also, the 90mm isn't really viable even in lower tier battles; it's always been a bit derpy but with 0.38 base accuracy, good luck hitting that weaving Pz. I C that's racing towards you, ready to f*ck your day up with his un-nerfed MG that can easily pen your armour.

 

I met an HE-firing ELC earlier; he did 44 damage to my Type 64 and I took care of him while he tried to reload and failed to use his new mobility to run away. "ELC is OP" ... sheesh. :sceptic:

 

... im talking about my expirience and you keep twisting my words... so please... and on my ELC im closly every time TOP damage or i do a amaizing job at spoting 1k-2,5k average... and even bouth scenarios happend often.

 

ELC HE is good vs Luch (autoloader) and enemy ELC, i dont play too often now because i dont like to play battles that dont feel worth it, and on top of that the posts about "BAD" ELC is because the plaistyle is changed and people need to addapt to it .... a 50% cammo mini TD with decent mobility ... is by no way a bad tank its just that he is more like a TD with Veiw range now.... instead a funny spartan what is always on the move



Jeg_er_mig #73 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:24 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 17 May 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

 

You think the ELC is OP now.

 

I know that's exactly what you posted but I had to type it out to believe you really think that. Read any of the ELC threads before and after the patch and you'll see why people are upset. Also, the 90mm isn't really viable even in lower tier battles; it's always been a bit derpy but with 0.38 base accuracy, good luck hitting that weaving Pz. I C that's racing towards you, ready to f*ck your day up with his un-nerfed MG that can easily pen your armour.

 

I met an HE-firing ELC earlier; he did 44 damage to my Type 64 and I took care of him while he tried to reload and failed to use his new mobility to run away. "ELC is OP" ... sheesh. :sceptic:

Was op against a around 65% type64, one on one, i barely manage to kill him, he have a crazy ROF, but i did, did he have 100% i have no chance...

That tank and the Lurch seams to be the better options...

 



r00barb #74 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:27 PM

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View PostPotato_Power, on 17 May 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

... im talking about my expirience and you keep twisting my words... 

 

Funny how many people make the same claim when I disagree with them. :rolleyes:

 

How the hell am I twisting your words when you put ...

 

View PostPotato_Power, on 17 May 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

... ELC is overwall too OP right now... before it was actualy more balanced what is kind of funny.. im asking for a nerf lol 

 

ELC is OP now ...

 

... seriously - how?



Potato_Power #75 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:42 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 17 May 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

 

Funny how many people make the same claim when I disagree with them. :rolleyes:

 

How the hell am I twisting your words when you put ...

 

If many people say its probably true, i said "HE shell can peneterate more eficiently" i mean idk are you stupid but it doesent mean its effective on EVERY tank... it means it is just something what you can get a use out of it more often now.

 

 

idk how to do the fancy box thing again but if you are that persistant..

 

OLD ELC:   

 

Weakneses: - Oneshoted

                    - Any light tank counters him

                    - Just rub your tank against a enemy -1000hp (or lose tracks)

                    - Ingine/tracks die often if enemy hits you

                    - Cant hold a location at all if the enemy wants the spot

 

Advantages: - Great Speed

                    - Great peneteration (not damage)

                    - Small low profile tank hard to hit (can use enemy HT bad gun depression)

 

 

 

NEW ELC:

 

Disadvantages: - Bad engine

                         - Decent peneteration

                         - Cant get close to a tank and play with its gun depression (they are more mobile and many are not that big so they can hit you)

 

Advantages: - Enemy veiw range SUCKS

                     - Gets oneshoted by just 2 tanks

                     - Awesome alpha damage for the tier

                    - Enemies are predictable and stupid

                    - Low profile tank

                    - HE shells can oneshot some LT so you can contest some areas

                    - Enemies have masive tunnel vision

                    - You dont see many heavy tanks at all (all enemies less HP)

 

 

... idk what to type else.. there are many advantages what shows that people just dont main the tier 5 tanks because most of them are boring or oneshot trolls... It just doesent feel worth it to paly against enemies witout any expirience with the tank and no gadgets at all.... when you spot a enemy he will fall back and get on the same location, even tho he was not spoted because he shot.... now with ELC it feels like you play tutorial games over and over and im sick of that feeling...!!!

                    

 


Edited by Potato_Power, 17 May 2017 - 01:43 PM.


DracheimFlug #76 Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:44 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 15 May 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

 

No because it;s WN8 requirements will have been adjusted.

 

Pretty much all lights have had their requirements adjusted because of the MM changes, so it'll basically be no better to pad in than most other tier 5s. 

 

But if it is harder to play, wouldn't the goalposts be moved down since the majority are scrubs like me who will now do even worse in it, thus lowering the average stats and thus lowering the wn8 requirements?

r00barb #77 Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:05 PM

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View PostPotato_Power, on 17 May 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

If many people say its probably true ...

 

Or it's a simple cop-out when people can't defend their argument.

 

View PostPotato_Power, on 17 May 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

... i said "HE shell can peneterate more eficiently" i mean idk are you stupid but it doesent mean its effective on EVERY tank... it means it is just something what you can get a use out of it more often now.

 

Yes. You also said, "ELC is OP" and that's the point I was addressing. It's fairly easy to see that from the quote I used and the words I typed in response. The point about HE was separate and I dealt with it separately by putting in its own paragraph. It's how language works, most people have no problems following it unless they're stupid or unable to say, "yeah, fair point, what I meant was ...".

 

View PostPotato_Power, on 17 May 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

... idk what to type else.. there are many advantages what shows that people just dont main the tier 5 tanks because most of them are boring or oneshot trolls... It just doesent feel worth it to paly against enemies witout any expirience with the tank and no gadgets at all.... when you spot a enemy he will fall back and get on the same location, even tho he was not spoted because he shot.... now with ELC it feels like you play tutorial games over and over and im sick of that feeling...!!!

 

You said it was OP, twice in the same post, and now you're saying that it's only OP when you're playing against new players who don't know the mechanics of the game. That's quite a lot of a clarification which wasn't even hinted at in your earlier post, isn't it.



Potato_Power #78 Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:12 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 17 May 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

 

 

Yes. You also said, "ELC is OP" and that's the point I was addressing. It's fairly easy to see that from the quote I used and the words I typed in response. The point about HE was separate and I dealt with it separately by putting in its own paragraph. It's how language works, most people have no problems following it unless they're stupid or unable to say, "yeah, fair point, what I meant was ...".

 

 

You said it was OP, twice in the same post, and now you're saying that it's only OP when you're playing against new players who don't know the mechanics of the game. That's quite a lot of a clarification which wasn't even hinted at in your earlier post, isn't it.

First of all i reported you, second of all you sound like a proud guy who doesent even try to understand anything but spits at people who dont share their opinion,

 

"Or its a simple cop-out when poeple cant defend their argument"

Are you serious? is that seriously your defense? will you tell something similar to anibody who said "its your mistake"?

 

please do not chat here anymore you are freaking anoyng, and to be clear... if the tank has types of weaknesses and strong parts what are strong against noob player the tank IS OP no matter what you say.. OP is not always in stats clear... and you think srsly small... you dont look at the big picture and you still think you are smart... wow


Edited by Potato_Power, 17 May 2017 - 02:13 PM.


tajj7 #79 Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:16 PM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 17 May 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

 

But if it is harder to play, wouldn't the goalposts be moved down since the majority are scrubs like me who will now do even worse in it, thus lowering the average stats and thus lowering the wn8 requirements?

 

It's not harder to play, it's easier to play because it has more forgiving MM than it had previously.

 

ELC is performing better statistically than it used to according to WOTnews, the recent WR curve is higher than the all time WR curve.

 

But it's also about all tier 5 lights, so you'll be able to stat pad pretty much in any tier 5 light, doesn't really matter which. Not to mention IMO any experienced player playing tier 5, if they have a decent crew, is essentially stats padding. 



DracheimFlug #80 Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:17 PM

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View PostPotato_Power, on 17 May 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

First of all i reported you, second of all you sound like a proud guy who doesent even try to understand anything but spits at people who dont share their opinion,

 

"Or its a simple cop-out when poeple cant defend their argument"

Are you serious? is that seriously your defense? will you tell something similar to anibody who said "its your mistake"?

 

please do not chat here anymore you are freaking anoyng and to be clear... if the tank has types of weaknesses and strong parts what are strong against noob player the tank IS OP no matter what you say.. OP is not always in stats clear... and you think srsly small... you dont look at the big picture and you still think you are smart... wow

 

You do realise that you just said if a tank has any advantages at all, especially if the strong parts are strong against bad players, it is therefore OP? Based on that argument, every tank in the game is OP and should be nerfed...... 

 

Your logic seems to have serious flaws, and people are not going to go away or quit pointing that out simply because you cannot see those flaws yourself.

 






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