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WG going batshit with copyright threats?


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HeathLedger_ #1 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:44 PM

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So according to this: https://www.reddit.c...e_and_so_is_wg/ both circonflexes and sirfoch have lost their CC status(understandable in a way for the latter) and Wg had threatened foch with DMCA strikes for having the wrong opinion? 

 

What the hell WG? That's the complete worst way to go about it. Sure, both of them were exceptionally critical of WG, but with valid reason. Do they really think only allowing obvious shills like QB to be CCs has any point? This is just shameful conduct, especially the alleged copyright strikes. Not keeping them as CCs is WGs right obviously, but trying to silence dissenters via copyright is [edited]-backwards conduct for such a big company.

 

Foch probably explains this better than me: 

 

Update because proofs:

View PostNjial, on 19 May 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

Hello all, 

 

without a preamble, please allow me to clarify one thing which seems to be in the center of all discussions and which is extremely important to me as Head of Community and to Wargaming!

We at Wargaming never claimed and will never pursue a copyright strike on public available or given content based on criticism, negative reviews of content, opinions on content etc. as long as I am having responsibility for community management in Europe. The only exception can be content provided under conditions of an NDA.

 

Florian Mentl

Head of Community 

 

Looks like Wg is preparing to throw Ph3lan under the buss and be done with this, not seeing the solution there... 

 

View PostNjial, on 19 May 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

I understand that my statement can be seen dubious compared to the screenshot posted, and the implied threat there. However I want to point out that there was no copyright claim done on SirFoch and I assure you it wouldn't have come to that.  

 

That leaves the questions on our communication yesterday with SirFoch, where the focus was completely and only on his vocabulary, unfortunately the wrong words had been chosen to express the importance of the situation to us. And I apologize to SirFoch, censorship was in no way ever the goal. We will certainly learn from the situation and will continue to work on the we communicate. 

 

 

 

Posted Image

I think an apology is extremely minimal considering just what kind of a [edited]move was threatened towards him, especially one buried in a forum topic where he would've never found it. An apology on the portal seems to be more in order.

 

Kotaku is crap, but this is relevant:

View Postrazvatree, on 20 May 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

http://kotaku.com/ne...-dev-1795398541

In an official statement provided to Kotaku by Wargaming, the company elaborated on its position,

 

“We are more than willing to give members of our community second chances, but there is a level of toxicity and/or offensive language that is unacceptable. We regret having to go to such extreme measures in SirFoch’s case, but we also don’t consider those measures to be censorship because we weren’t trying to silence SirFoch’s opinion, we were simply seeking to curb the extremely profane language of a member of our contributor program. SirFoch’s latest claim that we’re somehow prohibiting him from making future videos involving our games is completely false – he’s more than welcome to make more Wargaming-related videos. If those videos continue to include hate speech and homophobic slurs, we’ll take the necessary and appropriate action.”

 

Really WG?:ohmy:

 

 

Yeah, this 1 min 40 clip contained so much hatespeech: https://www.facebook...hc_location=ufi

 

Turns out that statement has been sent to that jimquisition guy as well, but there's more, not everyone at Wg seems to agree:

View PostNjial, on 22 May 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

Hello all, we wanted to share an update with you on the recent incident with SirFoch

 

"We at Wargaming have further reviewed the incident of last Friday involving SirFoch and his “Chrysler K GF rant” video, and we believe we could have handled the situation better. We strongly support our players’, including our Community Contributors’, right to speak critically about us and our games. At the same time, in the case of our Community Contributors, we ask that negative comments be made in a reasonably respectful, constructive manner, and SirFoch’s video didn’t do that. In turn, we acted too quickly when we threatened to have YouTube remove SirFoch’s video through a copyright infringement complaint. We have apologized to SirFoch for making that threat, and we are continuing our conversation with him on next steps.

 

We’re committed to doing a better job on this front. We’re going to improve the way we communicate with our Community Contributors, and as part of that effort we will work with them on more detailed, specific guidelines for our Community Contributors to help ensure incidents like this don’t happen again. We’ll also be implementing a more thorough internal review process of our own potential actions which will be used in any future case where we have concerns that a Community Contributor has crossed the line in the language they use.

 

We love our players and our contributors – even the ones who don’t always love us – and we are committed to using this case to grow and improve."

 

 

View PostAchibot, on 20 May 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

Full transcript of the Foch video:

 

Hello ladies and Mentlegen[sp.],

 

This is not gonna be a Chrysler K GF review, because f*ck Wargaming, f*ck their terrible way of making these premium tanks lately and f*ck this premium tank in particular. So what is it so bad about this one? Well, first of all there is no frontal weak-spots whatsoever and that is weird when you think about it because, like, if you look at the visual model right here, you see these?

 

[Zooms to machine-gun ports on the visual model, located on upper-left and -right of the upper glacis.]

 

You see these things? Oh my god, they are like machine gun ports, they're completely flat probably in real life that you couldn't really put any armour behind this so, this would be a weak-spot and it would be fine, it would award players for knowing this weak-spot and for shooting them but in the collision model, what do we have?

 

[Switches from visual to collision model.]

 

No machine gun ports! Why? I don't know because, eh, how are we gonna make money if we don't force everyone to spam premium ammo and buy premium tanks and buy f*cking premium 
account? Yay! We are greedy f*cks at Wargaming. Hurray!

 

Other problems with this tank is that this gun is [edited]AIDS, it's so [edited]bad. 198 pen on a Tier 8 Superheavy? F*ck off dude. Like if you don't load gold/premium ammo on this you're not gonna f*cking do anything on a Heavy tank and if you do load full premium you're not going to make any f*cking credits. So where's the point of playing this?

 

To f*cking statpad of course, what is better than 260 pen f*cking tier 8 Superheavy that can only be penned with gold ammo frontally? Isn't it f*cking wonderful? GG Wargaming and f*ck you!

 

[Video ends]

 

It's one thing to claim someone slandered you, but to try and twist that into something it's not and falsely label someone else a homophobe? I'm trying to think of the best word for this. Disgusting is probably the one that comes closest. Vile is another. That's just wrong on a whole other level entirely.

 

 

What the [edited]Wg, it's time to stop digging that grave any further.

 

Oh wait, there's more, maybe his rant was on to something:

Posted Image

 

Now this storm is settling down, the damage is becoming clear.

-lost Foch as a contributor(obviously)

-PointyHairedJedi and Jingles resigned as community contributors

-Internal WG communication between branches shown as nonexistent

-Non-WoT youtubers now hate their guts

-Ph3lan probably needs new underwear

-Njial needs stress pills

-We still get fucked by a Chrylser K spam (not taking the blam for your faulty wordfilter mods)

 

Literally the only winner here is the WG marketing department. What incredible damage a single sentence can lead to.

 

Plot twist, WG support is not the bad guy for once: 


Edited by HeathLedger_, 23 May 2017 - 01:46 AM.


Chipmunk_of_Vengeance #2 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:48 PM

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As someone said in that Reddit post, old Communist PR mentality.

gpalsson #3 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:48 PM

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Lol making Foch CC was probable one of the best moves WG ever made, and now they removed him? Heh. That's just [Edited].

Sfinski #4 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:49 PM

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Yup, just came from Fochs video. 

 

Absolutely retarded. You would think than after you've done mistakes as big company as WG would have someone working there to actually try to make things better, but no. WG covers their screw ups with even bigger screw ups. 

 

WG is a joke! 

 

That's the main meme right there.



OdysseusKrieg #5 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:58 PM

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typical commie tactics
 

View PostHeathLedger_, on 18 May 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

So according to this: https://www.reddit.c...e_and_so_is_wg/ both circonflexes and sirfoch have lost their CC status(understandable in a way for the latter) and Wg had threatened foch with DMCA strikes for having the wrong opinion?

 

What the hell WG? That's the complete worst way to go about it. Sure, both of them were exceptionally critical of WG, but with valid reason. Do they really think only allowing obvious shills like QB to be CCs has any point? This is just shameful conduct, especially the alleged copyright strikes. Not keeping them as CCs is WGs right obviously, but trying to silence dissenters via copyright is [edited]-backwards conduct for such a big company.

 

Foch probably explains this better than me: 

 

That description tho

World of Tanks is a free to play run by dumbest developers in the world


 

Marlekin #6 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:59 PM

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"Chrysler K is a joke and so is WG" 

 

Well what did he expect, really? The guy is more salty to WG than there is salt in the atlantic ocean. Foch had nice content at a point, but the salt and hate to WG did get old at one point. Hate on guys like QB all you want, but he also questioned WG's current direction on a matter of subjects, but atleast he doensnt have to make a complete Edited of WG to do so. There is a difference between presenting a different perspective and argumentising yours, and being a raging Edited

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to swearing.


Edited by VMX, 19 May 2017 - 08:30 AM.


HeathLedger_ #7 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:01 PM

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View PostMarlekin, on 18 May 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

"Chrysler K is a joke and so is WG" 

 

Well what did he expect, really? The guy is more salty to WG than there is salt in the atlantic ocean. Foch had nice content at a point, but the salt and hate to WG did get old at one point. Hate on guys like QB all you want, but he also questioned WG's current direction on a matter of subjects, but atleast he doensnt have to make a complete Edited of WG to do so. There is a difference between presenting a different perspective and argumentising yours, and being a raging Edited

 

There's also a difference between stopping your support of a channel and threatening to de-monetize and take down a channel. 

Edited by VMX, 19 May 2017 - 08:30 AM.


Marlekin #8 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:02 PM

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View PostHeathLedger_, on 18 May 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

 

There's also a difference between stopping your support of a channel and threatening to de-monetize and take down a channel. 

 

Well, too much salt can kill you. We all knew that. 

Ph3lan #9 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:03 PM

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Hey guys!
 
I have indeed removed SirFoch from the community contributor program and also asked him to remove his content about the Chrysler K. from his channel. The reason for this is not the fact that he criticized the tank or the company, but the way he did it. The video was offensive inappropriate and frankly, slanderous. I think anyone who has seen it will agree with me on this. To be clear, we are fine with our contributors criticizing our content in their videos and we don't plan to "censor" their content in any way. However I think all of us can agree that the CC program is built on mutual trust and respect. The only thing we ask from our contributors is to respect that relationship and the product/team they are working with. I think a video full of insults and offensive remarks against us violates that trust. This doesn't mean that we are severing all ties with Foch, he is still a part of our community, but for now he won't be part of the CC program. 
 
As far as Circon is concerned, he is still our contributor and we will continue to work with him. The video I asked him to remove also contained quite personal and offensive content. Circon agreed to removed it after I pointed it out. 
 
I hope that this clarifies things. If you have questions about this please don't hesitate to do so here. I'll be out of the office until tomorrow, but I'll make sure to answer once I am back in the office. 


banditescu #10 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:03 PM

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Looks like the personnel working at wargaming is living in current Turkey, a fascism regime or soviet russia. Why do you people still empty your pokets for these guys?

crnakoza #11 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:08 PM

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View PostPh3lan, on 18 May 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

The reason for this is not the fact that he criticized the tank or the company, but the way he did it. The video was offensive inappropriate and frankly, slanderous.

 

Offensive and inappropriate it was, given he had the status of community contributor, so I might understand why you wouldn't let this fly. However, slanderous it wasn't, not even a tiniest bit. Everything he said was spot on, it's just that delivery was offensive.

 

So ok, revoking his CC status. But taking the video down is really sketchy and reeks of damage control and trying to preserve good image through censorship. And if you have to apply censorship to preserve good image then it says more about the company than his offensive video ever could.



banditescu #12 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:10 PM

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View Postcrnakoza, on 18 May 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

 

Offensive and inappropriate it was, given he had the status of community contributor, so I might understand why you wouldn't let this fly. However, slanderous it wasn't, not even a tiniest bit. Everything he said was spot on, it's just that delivery was offensive.

 

So ok, revoking his CC status. But taking the video down is really sketchy and reeks of damage control and trying to preserve good image through censorship. And if you have to apply censorship to preserve good image then it says more about the company than his offensive video ever could.

 

+1 , atleast we know for sure everything Foch said was 100% correct

Element6_TheSprout #13 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:13 PM

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View Postbanditescu, on 18 May 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

Looks like the personnel working at wargaming is living in current Turkey, a fascism regime or soviet russia. Why do you people still empty your pokets for these guys?

Because emptying my pokets at WG is less childish than implying game developers are suffering from low IQ since they do not do what you want them to do?



crnakoza #14 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:14 PM

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View Postbanditescu, on 18 May 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

 

+1 , atleast we know for sure everything Foch said was 100% correct

 

Yes, I watched the original video by pure chance, I was bored and fired up YT to see what foch is up to. So as someone who has seen it, I can't be sold BS about it being slanderous.

Strappster #15 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:14 PM

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View PostChipmunk_of_Vengeance, on 18 May 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

As someone said in that Reddit post, old Communist PR mentality.

 

Sounds to me like they're catching up with the West. There have been numerous cases of game companies either paying for good reviews or threatening to remove advertisements and competitions, etc. in the event of poor reviews. Removing CC status is one thing; threatening a copyright strike for uploading content is another and there was a lot of kerfuffle a few years ago when Wild Games used it to take down a negative review by TotalBiscuit.

 

In light of Ph3lan's explanation (posted while I was googling for references) I accept that this is not the case but am not withdrawing my post as I believe it's relevant to the topic.

 

View Postbanditescu, on 18 May 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

+1 , atleast we know for sure everything Foch said was 100% correct

 

:facepalm:



Erwin_Von_Braun #16 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:14 PM

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View PostPh3lan, on 18 May 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

Hey guys!
 
I have indeed removed the SirFoch from the community contributor program and also asked him to remove his content about the Chrysler K. from his channel. The reason for this is not the fact that he criticized the tank or the company, but the way he did it. The video was offensive inappropriate and frankly, slanderous. I think anyone who has seen it will agree with me on this. To be clear, we are fine with our contributors criticizing our content in their videos and we don't plan to "censor" their content in any way. However I think all of us can agree that the CC program is built on mutual trust and respect. The only thing we ask from our contributors is to respect that relationship and the product/team they are working with. I think a video full of insults and offensive remarks against us violates that trust. This doesn't mean that we are severing all ties with Foch, he is still a part of our community, but for now he won't be part of the CC program.
 
As far as Circon is concerned, he is still our contributor and we will continue to work with him. The video I asked him to remove also contained quite personal and offensive content. Circon agreed to removed it after I pointed it out.
 
I hope that this clarifies things. If you have questions about this please don't hesitate to do so here. I'll be out of the office until tomorrow, but I'll make sure to answer once I am back in the office. 

 

So the Community 'Manager' IS still here.

You speak of being rude & offensive.

 

Do you know what I find rude & offensive?

 

Having legitimate questions ignored.

 

Having reasonable PM's ignored.

 


 


 


Edited by Erwin_Von_Braun, 23 May 2017 - 06:14 PM.


brumbarr #17 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:15 PM

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View PostPh3lan, on 18 May 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

Hey guys!
 
I have indeed removed the SirFoch from the community contributor program and also asked him to remove his content about the Chrysler K. from his channel. The reason for this is not the fact that he criticized the tank or the company, but the way he did it. The video was offensive inappropriate and frankly, slanderous. I think anyone who has seen it will agree with me on this. To be clear, we are fine with our contributors criticizing our content in their videos and we don't plan to "censor" their content in any way. However I think all of us can agree that the CC program is built on mutual trust and respect. 

Right, a consumer developer relationship is also build an trust and respect. But when WG has 0 respect for customers these days unbalancing the game more day after day and making the game p2w. What do you expect? That we are just guiet and keep paying you? We love this game,  and we do not want this game destroyed by greedy developers. So we will eb slanderous and offensive as long as WG keeps takign this path with new tanks. It is disrespectfull. And Threatening to take down a video is even more disrespectfull philan.  

Get your act together.



Achibot #18 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:16 PM

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View PostPh3lan, on 18 May 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

The reason for this is not the fact that he criticized the tank or the company, but the way he did it. The video was offensive inappropriate and frankly, slanderous. I think anyone who has seen it will agree with me on this. To be clear, we are fine with our contributors criticizing our content in their videos and we don't plan to "censor" their content in any way.

 

Foch's video was certainly offensive. They very often are.

 

BUT, truth is a complete defense to slander. In order for his points to be slanderous they would have to be inaccurate in some way. I don't think they were though, and I doubt I'm alone in thinking that.


Edited by Achibot, 18 May 2017 - 06:17 PM.


Grumledunk #19 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:16 PM

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Threatening to and removing people as CC if they say things that might mean the company loses profits is understandable on some levels, but DMCAing them for it is absolutely not okay. Nothing disgusts me more than a company trying to censor critics with abusing copyright take downs, and now WG has stooped to the same low level as 2 other certain tank game developers. I had just about forgiven WGEU for the WOWS christmas campaign disaster, and in fact I even bought prem time this month for the first time since it. But  this new development means that I'm not spending more money on the games until I see changes, if even then. This has left a really bad taste in my mouth.

Chipmunk_of_Vengeance #20 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:17 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 18 May 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

 

Sounds to me like they're catching up with the West. There have been numerous cases of game companies either paying for good reviews or threatening to remove advertisements and competitions, etc. in the event of poor reviews. Removing CC status is one thing; threatening a copyright strike for uploading content is another and there was a lot of kerfuffle a few years ago when Wild Games used it to take down a negative review by TotalBiscuit.

 

In light of Ph3lan's explanation (posted while I was googling for references) I accept that this is not the case but am not withdrawing my post as I believe it's relevant to the topic.

 

 

:facepalm:

 

That is true, wasn't it the Simpsons or Family Guy that included some gameplay from a console football game, then went to the video they took it from and did a Copyright Strike on it?

Edited by Chipmunk_of_Vengeance, 18 May 2017 - 06:18 PM.





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