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A suggestion to balance within tiers.


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LanguishViking #1 Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:45 PM

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I came back to try out the new matchmaking and arty changes. Arty is no longer a reason to quit and the MM which kept giving us one tier games was awesome, shame WG made it worse on purpose. 

 

But that's all beside the point.. while back staring at my ARL V39 and my Caernarvon I think I might have found a solution to turd and op tanks both premium and vanilla without actually nerfing any of the tank stats. 

 

Add a modifier to crew quality  to tanks that overperform compared to same tier tanks of a similar type at the start of the month you give that tank a -1% crew quality multiplier, for the tank that underperforms you give it a +1% modifier. If a tank persists in over or underperforming the modifiers keep adding up, positive or negative. If a tank passes the threshold from op to up or vice versa the modifiers are removed. 

 

You can use average xp as the baseline for determining if a  tank overperforms or not and you can give a larger boost or nerf to tanks which over or underperform by more than one standard deviation. Over time all tanks would settle at their balanced position and players could pick tanks that suit their playstyle rather than all rushing the latest op tank. 

 

Would this work? Would this gain acceptance?

 

n.b. to the forum assholes who argue that his is pointless, I would ask them to, yes, indeed, consider this whole thread pointless and ignore it. 



thiextar #2 Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:56 PM

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So we buff/nerf them, we just try to hide it?

cro001 #3 Posted 07 June 2017 - 07:46 PM

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How about WG does what it is supposed to do and actually balances a tank?

LanguishViking #4 Posted 07 June 2017 - 08:59 PM

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View Postthiextar, on 07 June 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

So we buff/nerf them, we just try to hide it?

 

Yes, and make reblancing automatic, systematic and non-subjective. 

LanguishViking #5 Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:01 PM

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View Postcro001, on 07 June 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

How about WG does what it is supposed to do and actually balances a tank?

 

This way it would be automatic and objective rather than vicarious and subjective. It's also incremental so the changes are small and gradual. I get the impression WG tends to overcorrect when balancing tanks. 

qpranger #6 Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:01 PM

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I think the OP makes some valid points.

CrySpy #7 Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:05 PM

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This would mean that tanks that the majority fail in would get buffs. Think about that for a minute.

LanguishViking #8 Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:10 PM

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View PostCrySpy, on 07 June 2017 - 09:05 PM, said:

This would mean that tanks that the majority fail in would get buffs. Think about that for a minute.

 

Are you saying that high threshold tanks would then get buffed compared to low threshold tanks?

 

Such as? I'd be curious to hear which tanks might be on that list?



AliceUnchained #9 Posted 07 June 2017 - 10:52 PM

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Messing around with crew skills in an attempt to correct (glaring) issues with vehicles balance really isn't the way to go. While mobility and view range might be adjusted somewhat, penetration and armor protection won't be effected in any way.

CrySpy #10 Posted 07 June 2017 - 10:55 PM

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View PostLanguishViking, on 07 June 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

Are you saying that high threshold tanks would then get buffed compared to low threshold tanks?

Yes. The most popular tanks. You could base this on dmg required for 3 moe or global win rates in the tanks.

So according to vbaddict T-62a would be buffed.



Balc0ra #11 Posted 08 June 2017 - 12:14 AM

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Do you honestly think 1% would help your ARL V39 vs before? Most tanks will still remain "underdogs" as tomatoes play them wrong. Like the IS-3 on the Russian server that had a 43% average WR. And thus the reason for the side armor buff. As apparently most play it like a TD or light there.

 

Then again for some tanks after a few months, some gaps would be to big vs some tanks. And "bad" tanks would have 130% crews. Thing is, that people that play bad in them, and drag the stats down, will still do bad in it... Even if the crew % jumped a few points. And popular tanks that most good players play, will still do good, even if their crew takes a few % penalties. As bad players usually don't run food or have many tanks with BIA in them. Like good players in the more popular tanks might have. Thus the gap will remain regardless. Thus a mostly pointless system.



LanguishViking #12 Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:06 AM

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View PostCrySpy, on 07 June 2017 - 10:55 PM, said:

Yes. The most popular tanks. You could base this on dmg required for 3 moe or global win rates in the tanks.

So according to vbaddict T-62a would be buffed.

 

Yeah, it is pretty much joint worst of the tier X meds (exclusing the Centurion AX which is last) with the 121, Leo, Amx 30 and Bat Chat having pretty much the same average xp. It's the best of those and excluding the "small data set" vehicles it's 8th out of 13 medium tanks with two of the most popular (bat chat and leo) worse than it. Now I'll go looking for the threads about how the T-62 is overpowered. 

LanguishViking #13 Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:13 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 08 June 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

Do you honestly think 1% would help your ARL V39 vs before? Most tanks will still remain "underdogs" as tomatoes play them wrong. Like the IS-3 on the Russian server that had a 43% average WR. And thus the reason for the side armor buff. As apparently most play it like a TD or light there.

 

Then again for some tanks after a few months, some gaps would be to big vs some tanks. And "bad" tanks would have 130% crews. Thing is, that people that play bad in them, and drag the stats down, will still do bad in it... Even if the crew % jumped a few points. And popular tanks that most good players play, will still do good, even if their crew takes a few % penalties. As bad players usually don't run food or have many tanks with BIA in them. Like good players in the more popular tanks might have. Thus the gap will remain regardless. Thus a mostly pointless system.

 

 

I would think that after a year when the ARL is likely at +12% crew skills it might start to matter, reload, traverse, aimtime, cammo, spotting range all of this would be better. Two years later when it is at +24% crew skills it might start being competitive. The point isn't to balance players it's to balance tanks.

 

The IS-3 would be one of many tanks being boosted to match the op premiums. Though I suspect the IS-3 would be "the average" give it's 600k games in vbaddict. However, think about how a drivable Caernarvon, King Tiger or KV-4 might be. How would this be worse than having 2/3 of all tanks being non-competitive and 1/3 being total wastes of time? (n.b. here the 1/3 referred to is part of the 2/3 referred to)

 

The point is that this is a self regulating system which ultimately drives all tanks towards balance. At some point people will realize that they will get the best performance driving a tank that suits their playstyle. 

 


Edited by LanguishViking, 08 June 2017 - 08:16 AM.


Ulicum #14 Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:16 AM

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Call me crazy but I would not like to see all vehicles closely balanced.

 

Its just a game, I like the opportunity to take a spins with somehow weaker and challenged vehicles because to make them work, you need to alter your playing style. This game would be so much more boring if every vehicle would have similar stats and game style.

 



JuliusCheddar #15 Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:25 AM

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Meh, just no. Balance in this game is pretty good (except type and Maus ofc) and that system is pointless. How about they focus on fixing the matchmaking so that tier 8s don't see tier Xs 80% of time? 

Suurpolskija #16 Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:41 AM

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Ooh, the amount of +skills for regular arties. They generally get less xp and are more commonly driven by people that aren't that skilled.

Yes please! Spg-15-3 awaits!

Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #17 Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:01 AM

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Silly idea... So I put my great crew in a Defender, and suddenly they start drooling. Now transfer them in a Churchill VII and suddenly they're supersharp. :girl:

magkiln #18 Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:31 AM

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View PostUlicum, on 08 June 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

Call me crazy but I would not like to see all vehicles closely balanced.

 

Its just a game, I like the opportunity to take a spins with somehow weaker and challenged vehicles because to make them work, you need to alter your playing style. This game would be so much more boring if every vehicle would have similar stats and game style.

 

 

Agreed. On top if that, there is  another balancing factors that people forget: the research costs.

Yes, the Caernarvon is a rather pathetic heavy tank. The upside, you don't have to grind it all that long. The Conqueror takes only 110,000 research points, which is about two thirds of a typical tier 9 heavy. I think that makes for a better 'balance' than fiddling with crew skills.



Alex_Connor #19 Posted 08 June 2017 - 10:13 AM

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See, your mistake is thinking WG wants good balance. 

 

Having different flavor of the moment tanks gets people grinding new lines, keeps them paying for premium time, paying to convert xp, buying premiums for crew training. By the same token, having the odd **** tank in a line like the TVP VTU or the Caernarvon is also good for business, gets people to free xp past because they want the much stronger t9/t10.

 

If balance was better people would settle down with a handful of tanks they like and be happy, which is great for them but not so great for WG profits.

 

 

 



LanguishViking #20 Posted 08 June 2017 - 10:43 AM

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View PostUlicum, on 08 June 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

Call me crazy but I would not like to see all vehicles closely balanced.

 

Its just a game, I like the opportunity to take a spins with somehow weaker and challenged vehicles because to make them work, you need to alter your playing style. This game would be so much more boring if every vehicle would have similar stats and game style.

 

 

Well since I'm not changing any actual stats, you can just use a crew from the wrong kind of tank and get the same experience. 




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