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New Countries' Tech Trees - Why not?


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davidblader #1 Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:11 AM

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Before reading this, please don't post stupid comments like ''add a Greenlandic tree with flying tanks then''. This is a serious question to see people's opinion.

 

So, there are two groups of people when it comes to WoT updates. One half is for adding new countries to the game, but the other half is always against this idea and considers it pointless, at least before they update more important stuff.

 

As one of the people who are for new countries, I want to ask the other half: What would be wrong with new trees or even mini-tech trees? New countries would only bring us good things, like new players from these countries, who will want to play their tanks, and they will also help with stuff like historical battles.

OF COURSE WG needs to update a lot of other things too, but the thing is that they've already started doing things like balancing Arties or the MM. Again, why are you so badly against new countries?

And by the way, if you are interested, the guys at The Armored Patrol have plans about Romanian tanks. They say they've found LOTS of new stuff and it's possbile for Romania to have enough tanks for a full, clone-free tech tree. They will also do some archive digging, which will help even more. You can help them, and here are some of their very interesting projects: 

https://thearmoredpa...manian-merkava/

https://thearmoredpa...world-of-tanks/

https://thearmoredpa...rt-ii-premiums/ (the image of the tree seen here is an old one, not part of their current, clone-free plans)

https://thearmoredpa...zech-armaments/

https://thearmoredpa...ul-de-care-r35/

(no, this is not an attempt to advertise them, the topic was started to see people's opinions on the question asked above, but feel free to help TAP if you want!)


Edited by davidblader, 09 June 2017 - 11:16 AM.


Gvozdika #2 Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:33 AM

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I'm firmly of the 'no more tanks' school of thinking for three reasons. Don't take this as a personal dig - since unlike many you have at least provided a rationale behind your desire for more tanks.

 

1) The game as it stands has a number of pressing issues (super-heavies, map balance/design, premium ammo, certain premiums obsoleting regular tech tree equivalents, etc. take your pick). Adding new tanks does not solve that - if anything WG's track record of late has made any new additions to the game to be viewed with a degree of dubious suspicion. The argument is often made that WG have multiple teams working on different stuff all the time but when was the last time we had a new map for example? I also wouldn't trust the WG balance dept to navigate a rubber duck in a bath, much less balance a new tech tree to be neither so UP that it's not worth anything or so OP that it breaks the game.

 

2) Vast swathes of these requested tech trees have gaps in them - big gaps that can only be plugged by either clones, copy-paste specials or made-up vehicles entirely. The Jap heavy line is basically just variations of a sole prototype from T5 upward - which is fine if you want lots of the same from T5-10. The Chinese line for example isn't that popular for the reasons listed above (copy-paste models in many cases - but worse than the Russian counterpart). WoT has plenty of paper-tanks as it is. 

 

3) Many of these vehicles have virtually no following outside of their respective nations - in the same way that much of the EU server looks at all these *new* tanks like the Object 140/430/260/263/252 (pick any number and plonk it here) from Russia and just roll our eyes. They are obscure to anyone outside of Russia, they are pretty damn obscure to anyone INSIDE Russia beyond tank-nuts - much of smaller nation trees would be very similar, with one key difference. This might sound crass, but a couple of 10K players clamouring for an obscure prototype T9 PL or RO tank that nobody outside of Poland or Romania has heard of is not worth WG's time in catering to in the same way they pander to the niche tastes of the RU audience. 


Edited by Gvozdika, 09 June 2017 - 11:35 AM.


davidblader #3 Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:45 AM

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View PostGvozdika, on 09 June 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'm firmly of the 'no more tanks' school of thinking for three reasons. Don't take this as a personal dig - since unlike many you have at least provided a rationale behind your desire for more tanks.

 

1) The game as it stands has a number of pressing issues (super-heavies, map balance/design, premium ammo, certain premiums obsoleting regular tech tree equivalents, etc. take your pick). Adding new tanks does not solve that - if anything WG's track record of late has made any new additions to the game to be viewed with a degree of dubious suspicion. The argument is often made that WG have multiple teams working on different stuff all the time but when was the last time we had a new map for example? I also wouldn't trust the WG balance dept to navigate a rubber duck in a bath, much less balance a new tech tree to be neither so UP that it's not worth anything or so OP that it breaks the game.

 

2) Vast swathes of these requested tech trees have gaps in them - big gaps that can only be plugged by either clones, copy-paste specials or made-up vehicles entirely. The Jap heavy line is basically just variations of a sole prototype from T5 upward - which is fine if you want lots of the same from T5-10. The Chinese line for example isn't that popular for the reasons listed above (copy-paste models in many cases - but worse than the Russian counterpart). WoT has plenty of paper-tanks as it is. 

 

3) Many of these vehicles have virtually no following outside of their respective nations - in the same way that much of the EU server looks at all these *new* tanks like the Object 140/430/260/263/252 (pick any number and plonk it here) from Russia and just roll our eyes. They are obscure to anyone outside of Russia, they are pretty damn obscure to anyone INSIDE Russia beyond tank-nuts - much of smaller nation trees would be very similar, with one key difference. This might sound crass, but a couple of 10K players clamouring for an obscure prototype T9 PL or RO tank that nobody outside of Poland or Romania has heard of is not worth WG's time in catering to in the same way they pander to the niche tastes of the RU audience. 

 

Thanks for an honest reply and for the kind of compliment in the first part :)

DorsVenabiIi #4 Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:48 AM

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a new tech tree = a new set of poorly balanced tanks which will remain poorly balanced for at least a year or forever. And there is LOADS of tanks in the game, I really see no need for more at this current point. They should focus on properly balancing the existing tech trees before venturing further out. 

Isharial #5 Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:54 AM

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View PostGvozdika, on 09 June 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'm firmly of the 'no more tanks' school of thinking for three reasons. Don't take this as a personal dig - since unlike many you have at least provided a rationale behind your desire for more tanks.

 

1) The game as it stands has a number of pressing issues (super-heavies, map balance/design, premium ammo, certain premiums obsoleting regular tech tree equivalents, etc. take your pick). Adding new tanks does not solve that - if anything WG's track record of late has made any new additions to the game to be viewed with a degree of dubious suspicion. The argument is often made that WG have multiple teams working on different stuff all the time but when was the last time we had a new map for example? I also wouldn't trust the WG balance dept to navigate a rubber duck in a bath, much less balance a new tech tree to be neither so UP that it's not worth anything or so OP that it breaks the game.

 

2) Vast swathes of these requested tech trees have gaps in them - big gaps that can only be plugged by either clones, copy-paste specials or made-up vehicles entirely. The Jap heavy line is basically just variations of a sole prototype from T5 upward - which is fine if you want lots of the same from T5-10. The Chinese line for example isn't that popular for the reasons listed above (copy-paste models in many cases - but worse than the Russian counterpart). WoT has plenty of paper-tanks as it is.

 

3) Many of these vehicles have virtually no following outside of their respective nations - in the same way that much of the EU server looks at all these *new* tanks like the Object 140/430/260/263/252 (pick any number and plonk it here) from Russia and just roll our eyes. They are obscure to anyone outside of Russia, they are pretty damn obscure to anyone INSIDE Russia beyond tank-nuts - much of smaller nation trees would be very similar, with one key difference. This might sound crass, but a couple of 10K players clamouring for an obscure prototype T9 PL or RO tank that nobody outside of Poland or Romania has heard of is not worth WG's time in catering to in the same way they pander to the niche tastes of the RU audience.

 

this ^

 

they may have found candidates for the techtrees, but as said, a lot of tech tree's have other nations tanks within them (this one may not, but how many are "based on *Russian med name*"?

atleast the Japanese line was unique in that they wernt copy paste tanks and they added something different, Chinese are very close to copy paste, but some of them did exist and were modified for their own nations needs, though this kind of addition is beginning to get old, a few tree's have these tanks now... (T-34 based machines being one example)


 

if they can add a new line, it has to have some kind of "specialty" the new Swedish tank destroyers are prime example

that said, a Poland line would mainly consist of a bunch of Russian made tanks past about T5, many of which we already have in the Russian tree, thus why add the line? we already have the tanks, no one going to grind a polish IS-3, when they already have the IS-3 in the Russian tree bar some polish people...

if the polish line could be made up from tanks they made from scratch (ie not bought them from other nations) then, sure, add them, they add something, same with the Romanian tanks, but only if they aren't based on other tanks we already have

we don't need another OBJ 140 with a 100mm gun "upgrade", its not special, and we already have the tank in-game


 

and from my own view.. why play the british line, when the tanks are useless? who wants a Churchill GC or a churchil 7? they're useless and pointless to even play...

same goes for French TD, among others

they should fix these old useless tank lines before adding new ones imo, we have many tanks to use, but people only get to use ~10 of them because the rest are so horribly outdated


 


 


 


 


Edited by Clarrissa_the_Third, 09 June 2017 - 11:55 AM.


Balc0ra #6 Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:07 PM

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Sure you get new players back.. but as with past tech trees. It's not a lasting effect for most of them.

 

Issue is that a new nation means it needs to be set apart to attract players to play them. Germans were accurate. Swedes had great gun depression, British arty had a bigger arch etc. And thus balancing those around that vs the rest is just getting tougher for each nation added. That and the more tanks you have, the bigger the chance of pushing older tanks out. Most that are outdated in the current meta as is. This on the past nations have not been an issue on low and mid tiers. But you notice the meta has been pushed, leaving others behind. Like the Swedish HT's, or the Czech mediums with their rapid burst damage. Thus the tanks already in desperate need of buffs, gets leaved more behind. So IMO... as the Swedes are still "recent". They need to sort out past balance issues created by past nations, before they add more.

 

WG have several ideas and tanks to add to new nations, as they have said. Inc an Italian one they said to be working on not long ago. But WG did say that they don't want to have a new nation with just Russian copy cat tanks for the most part. As in an other China. Or to many nations in the tech tree to make it confusing for most players. Or to add nations with just one line again, like Japan was initially. Thus the idea for the EU tech tree that more and more nations are pushed into, that had plans for their own tree. Swedes was in there to at some point before the TD line did get mid to low tier TD's to.

 

Tho with regards to Italy... WT in the early days had an Italian line hidden in their German Tech tree, that could also work.

 

I guess my tl;dr is that. I don't want them to add a new nation before they have balanced past nations again. So that the new nations fits better in. And that's the issue the EU tree has atm, the last we heard about it over a year ago.






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