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Map goating, climbing on map, unfair play?

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alrickdrinkson #1 Posted 11 June 2017 - 04:14 PM

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So i was playing a game on mine, and saw a t54 ltw appear right above south base, shoting the back of our tank, and, surprise, we could not spot him until he shot,  and so few part were visible...

here as illustrative as it can be (i'm bad in strv s1). http://wotreplays.com/site/3643443

Problem is, those place should not be acceccible, so it fall under games rule ,

Block Quote

4. Inappropriate conduct in game / Fair play principles

[...]

4.08 :Any conduct that is considered by Wargaming staff as disruptive to the gaming experience of others can be sanctioned in accordance to rule 1.04. This conduct includes and is not limited to: malicious and/or intentional in-game harassment, intentional exploitation of in-game mechanics or any action that intentionally goes against or abuses the game design. [...]

 

Some faulty positioning, explained on the map, red arrow is entry point, green is line of spoting and line of fire:

Kerelia sacred valley positionmine

you can also find this behaviour on step and redshire.

 

So as it give an unfair advantage, and break map balancing, should this be punished?

 



Achibot #2 Posted 11 June 2017 - 04:24 PM

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View PostMrConway, on 03 June 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Let me clarify some things:  As long as you can get to a spot in game using the regular game mechanics, you are not breaking any rules by going there, although it often will not help you win the battle.

 

Some of the spots are intentionally placed, others are the result of the physics update and the changed tank behaviour. We are aware of the situation and will likely be removing several of the spots that we find problematic. As you know we are currently completely reworking all maps into HD, so you can expect some of the boost spots to disappear with their introduction.



WindSplitter1 #3 Posted 11 June 2017 - 04:56 PM

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View PostMrConway, on 03 June 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Let me clarify some things:  As long as you can get to a spot in game using the regular game mechanics, you are not breaking any rules by going there, although it often will not help you win the battle.

 

Some of the spots are intentionally placed, others are the result of the physics update and the changed tank behaviour. We are aware of the situation and will likely be removing several of the spots that we find problematic. As you know we are currently completely reworking all maps into HD, so you can expect some of the boost spots to disappear with their introduction.

 

 In case it wasn't clear enough.

 

 



Old_Viking_DK #4 Posted 11 June 2017 - 04:58 PM

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Since wg made those changes i doubt it will be punished, so suck it up and move on.

jack_timber #5 Posted 11 June 2017 - 05:58 PM

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Nowt wrong with them still trying to get Tortoise up there tho....

Hyster #6 Posted 11 June 2017 - 06:00 PM

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WG's way of saying

"yes its a problem but we are not going to do anything about the scrubs who abuse it as it will take effort to do something about it"



Achibot #7 Posted 11 June 2017 - 06:02 PM

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View PostHyster, on 11 June 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

WG's way of saying

"yes its a problem but we are not going to do anything about the scrubs who abuse it as it will take effort to do something about it"

 

They've already said they will be addressing this in Projekt HD Rock comrade. Do keep up, eh?

malachi6 #8 Posted 11 June 2017 - 06:18 PM

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Trouble with these positions is, they favour one side per map.

 

Other issue is,  people can spend ages trying to get into these positions.  taking them out of the game for 5 mins+.  Had a T67 the other day, he literally spent 6 minutes trying to climb.  Ended up reporting the guy afk.  Given he may as well have been.



Balc0ra #9 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:24 PM

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View Postalrickdrinkson, on 11 June 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

So i was playing a game on mine, and saw a t54 ltw appear right above south base, shoting the back of our tank, and, surprise, we could not spot him until he shot,  and so few part were visible...

here as illustrative as it can be (i'm bad in strv s1). http://wotreplays.com/site/3643443

Problem is, those place should not be acceccible, so it fall under games rule ,

 

Some faulty positioning, explained on the map, red arrow is entry point, green is line of spoting and line of fire:

Kerelia sacred valley positionmine

you can also find this behaviour on step and redshire.

 

So as it give an unfair advantage, and break map balancing, should this be punished?

 

 

Nope, if you can get there. It's fine and legal as pointed out above... tho that don't make it less stupid or broken on some maps. As WG have said they are looking into fixing some of them.

 

As for you map examples. Never seen point 1 get used more then once. And it failed badly, as the got raped the second they got spotted.

 

Point 2 is the one you will see 9 out 10 times playing that map. And if I start on the other base, I never push towards their cap If I see a few Swedish TD's up there. And I've had to force them down to get a win more then once. I've even seen people hug the mountain side going under their guns, camping right out side their cap... for 8 min before they pushed over to try and take them out... and failed. As it's IMO the only effective one to use on approach, and the most game breaking one. As IF they push on your base via the HT line, I've seen them farm 5-6 kills before they get spotted. And it's the one they really should fix IMO.

 

Point 3 is the least useful one. As I've seen anything from low tiers, to T67 and BC go up there from both sides. And not seen many of them get much done. As they can't effectively cover the middle area before hill. And if you win hill. Still plenty of spots you can take and hide, and still support your team, so they can't farm you. Once people found out about it, you did see it often. But now most know how useless it is most times. That only low tiers go up it.



Isharial #10 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:30 PM

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View Postalrickdrinkson, on 11 June 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

So i was playing a game on mine, and saw a t54 ltw appear right above south base, shoting the back of our tank, and, surprise, we could not spot him until he shot,  and so few part were visible...

here as illustrative as it can be (i'm bad in strv s1). http://wotreplays.com/site/3643443

Problem is, those place should not be acceccible, so it fall under games rule ,

 

Some faulty positioning, explained on the map, red arrow is entry point, green is line of spoting and line of fire:

Kerelia sacred valley positionmine

you can also find this behaviour on step and redshire.

 

So as it give an unfair advantage, and break map balancing, should this be punished?

 

 

you forgot abbey & mountain pass, which also have goating places like this..

 

though I think giving them 2 entry points that are easier for the majority of tanks to access, and leaving the spaces there is better than simply locking them down

id rather have more map locations being useable, than less



I_DiD_ #11 Posted 11 June 2017 - 08:29 PM

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Advantage where people can't shoot or see you, because you somewhere out of the map should be punished with ban!

 



BP_OMowe #12 Posted 11 June 2017 - 11:53 PM

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View Postalrickdrinkson, on 11 June 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

So i was playing a game on mine, and saw a t54 ltw appear right above south base, shoting the back of our tank, and, surprise, we could not spot him until he shot,  and so few part were visible...

here as illustrative as it can be (i'm bad in strv s1). http://wotreplays.com/site/3643443

Problem is, those place should not be acceccible, so it fall under games rule ,

So as it give an unfair advantage, and break map balancing, should this be punished?

 

Those that should be punished is the mini-map makers, who marked perfectly accessible areas as impassable terrain, is spite of Wargaming being well aware of the phenomenon and already taken measures closing certain climbs.

There's no glitch exploiting (least you count using high pen guns to deal with heavy armour of course, but then you'd be a total nut-case anyway), and hence you are guilty of frivolous accusations....which indeed should be punishable.



Tidal_Force #13 Posted 12 June 2017 - 12:02 AM

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If anything, that should be made more accessible. Letting MTs and LTs parkour around the map (preferably HTs would have no ability to use those areas, MTs could use some areas, LTs could use all areas) would be a great way to counteract corridorisation.

iztok #14 Posted 12 June 2017 - 01:19 AM

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Report the "mountain goat" for "unsportsman-like". Ask others in your team to also do so. Nothing else you can do.

SirKnumskull #15 Posted 12 June 2017 - 03:09 AM

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View Postiztok, on 12 June 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

Report the "mountain goat" for "unsportsman-like". Ask others in your team to also do so. Nothing else you can do.

 

Yes, abusing the report system will totally solve the problem. 



CmdPrompt #16 Posted 12 June 2017 - 03:54 AM

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View PostSirKnumskull, on 12 June 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

 

Yes, abusing the report system will totally solve the problem. 

 

Don't worry, reporting system is there only to appease the stupids, it doesn't actually do anything.

K_A #17 Posted 12 June 2017 - 04:15 AM

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Who said you can't climb in MAUS?

 


Edited by K_A, 12 June 2017 - 04:15 AM.


CrapuPesteleTanchist #18 Posted 12 June 2017 - 06:06 AM

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View Postalrickdrinkson, on 11 June 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

So i was playing a game on mine, and saw a t54 ltw appear right above south base, shoting the back of our tank, and, surprise, we could not spot him until he shot,  and so few part were visible...

here as illustrative as it can be (i'm bad in strv s1). http://wotreplays.com/site/3643443

Problem is, those place should not be acceccible, so it fall under games rule ,

 

Some faulty positioning, explained on the map, red arrow is entry point, green is line of spoting and line of fire:

Kereliasacred valley positionmine

you can also find this behaviour on step and redshire.

 

So as it give an unfair advantage, and break map balancing, should this be punished?

 

Well it's like hell whenever a light tank goes there because he light's the map like a Christmas tree but they won't do a damn thing about that 

I would implement a leave area of the fight and get that tank blown to pieces if he doesn't get down indeed are annoying and the only thing that you can do is to report them



thestaggy #19 Posted 12 June 2017 - 06:19 AM

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Well, that position on Fjords where only the team spawning from the West can get to is borderline game-breaking. Well, someone from the East spawn can try get there but they will be fully exposed to the enemy team and due to terrain, their allies won't be able to cover them. Not only does that point provide them with a well-covered place to deal damage from, it also keeps the people in the middle pretty much perma-spotted.

 

Likewise the overpowered hill behind the north spawn on Tundra.



ZlatanArKung #20 Posted 12 June 2017 - 08:23 AM

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Well. HD rock is of paramount importance to WG. This have to wait. Maybe in 2 years and after HD rock is done can we expect WG to look into this.




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