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Can we finally fix tier 8 matchmaking?

tier 8 is poop with a capital p burger king arty is jizz matchmaking

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kripton69 #1 Posted 11 June 2017 - 06:26 PM

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I am suffering from some serious first world problems here and I am not happy about it. To tell you the truth, I need to buy 121 and AMX 50B in the near future and would like to have some credits for playing my tier 9-10 tanks. Some of them can be expensive to play because WG has "increased the role of armor" by only making it penetrable by gold.

 

Lately I have have not been in the mood for heavies so I've been playing random unarmored tanks to farm money. Today I played my Lorraine 40t. It's a perfectly fine tank. But I admit, playing a paper autoloader has its limitations in carrying games even with a fair matchmaker and when you never see a lower tier tank in your 9 games with the tank it's starting to taste like wood. I don't particularly like the idea of +2/-2 and don't enjoy clubbing tier 6s but hell, if I am seeing higher tiers all the time it would be fun to see an occasional lower tier tank too. I'd much rather just take plain +1/-1 though. The bottom line is that tier 8 matchmaking is screwed and if you're playing tier 8 tanks you can expect your performance level to be moderately diluted by the fact that the matchmaker is really taking a piss on tier 8. 

 

I don't even want to whine about the templates system. I think the idea of seeing a maximum of 3 tanks that are two tiers higher than you is much better than seeing those unplayable battles with 9(or more) tier Xs per side while you're trying to find an excuse for your. I would much prefer +1/-1 but I think this template system is better than the highly inconsistent lottery matchmaking we had before that would regularly put tanks into battles to be nothing but free XP. Now, I understand that with the template system like this I am more likely to mid/lower tier or than top tier in a game with lots of tier 6s. I don't expect to be one of the 3 top tiers vs. a bunch of tier 6-7 tanks every 2-3 games. No, that's not the problem.

 

So what's the problem here? It's the fact I'm seeing a fair amount of higher tiers but barely any lower tiers. You've seen lots of people damning the tier 8 matchmaking and because WoT players like to whine about everything and exaggerate things many of you are probably just bound to think someone had a rough patch of a few games and there's no substance to these complaints. But there is substance to it. Because the template system kind of cheats the math you can't count games as how many times you were top, mid or bottom tier anymore, I figured that the best way to count how "fair" the matchmaker is can be done by simply counting the numbers of tanks from each tier that you face.

 

If the matchmaker is fair and you play a tier 8 tank you should meet a somewhat similar number of higher and lower tiers. We can never expect the numbers to be absolute but they should somewhat resemble each other. Oversimplified, even though you'll be bottom tier more often than top tier if you play 100 battles and you meet 120 tier X tanks you should also meet 120 tier 6 tanks. Regrettably this is not the case.

 

I have recently done a few grinds. Of tier 8s I've completed O-Ho and Emil I. My O-Ho never once saw a tier 6 throughout its 82 games long grind. This was obviously exceptionally bad luck but all the same it made my grind a nightmare and I realized that just bad luck can't explain this. The end result is that I both did and blocked more damage with the one tier lower O-Ni. I did the grind just some weeks ago and because the matchmaker was still new, I wasn't prepared and regrettably didn't count how many tanks of each tier my O-Ho faced but there are some things that are easy to notice such as that you never faced a tier 6 tank. The good news is that after the agony O-ho gave me I had another tier 8 heavy that needed playing through, the Emil I and this time I was prepared. Either I was just being exceptionally biased or I was being screwed by the matchmaker. The only way to find out which one was the case was to simply get the numbers and analyze them. During the loading screen of every battle with my Emil I I recorded the numbers. For those of you who haven't read my Emil I grind thread(http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/631615-emil-i-is-a-decentish-tank-and-why-tier-8-isnt-worth-your-time/) I'll just copy the relevant part here.

 

Tanks faced:

Total: 1035

Tier 6: 21
Tier 7: 74
Tier 8: 581
Tier 9: 266
Tier X: 93

 

To keep things simple I counted only tanks from the enemy team. The fact that I faced by far the most tier 8 tanks(56% or 581 tanks) should not come as a surprise to anyone. I meet between 3-15 tier 8 tanks in every single battle. They're like relatives or stupid people - you just can't get rid of them. But the rest of the table is much more alarming. I faced a total of 1053 tanks throughout the grind and only 21(2%) were tier 6. That's a pathetic number. Unfortunately tier 7s weren't much more common with a total of 74(7%) tier 7 tanks faced. The higher tier tanks didn't achieve the same numbers as tier 8 tanks but I faced them more often than lower tiers and it isn't even close. I fought against 266 tier 9 tanks(26%) and tier 10s tanks showed up 93(9%) times. This is just [edited]ed up, there's no other way to put it. For every tier 6 XP piñata I got to farm I had to fight against 4-5 tier 10 tanks for whom I was basically a free lunch. That's a tad unfair. For every tier 7 I would have to basically fight through 3-4 tier 9 tanks. This just doesn't add up does it? The total number of lower tiers I faced was a ridiculously low 9% but at the same time 35% of the tanks I met were of higher tier. It should probably also be added that not a single one of the games were platooned so contrary to a popular belief this is not a platoon problem. I don't know if platooning makes it even worse but it's completely horrible even full solo and until further research is done about this, there is no reason to stop platooning with your friends.

 

TL;DR: To put it simple tier 8 isn't worth your time. If you're like me and don't have bottomless coffers you're probably feeling the same pain - tier 8 is the primary silver farming tier. The good thing is that if you have a high pen tier 8 tank such as Skorpion you can still farm silver with no noticeable difference in your income but you're going to be the underdog on the battlefield. For me winning games is an important part even when I grind credits so being tier 8 and almost only fighting tier 8-9 tanks grows old. On the other hand playing only OP tanks and being punished for playing something different grows equally old. But how else do you pull back that unhealthy gap?

 

I am hoping that Wargaming sorts this thing out. The new matchmaking has potential to be a great improvement but it needs some work. The only things this new matchmaking requires is the separation of heavies and mediums(it currently treats them as the same), lesser tank stacking(for some reason the new matchmaker likes to stack copies of the same tanks in one team) and the creation of a memory where it roughly remembers what kind of matchmaking a player has received and it should seek to balance it out. The old matchmaking had a memory which would over time balance how many top/mid/bottom tier games each player would get. We need something like that for the new matchmaker too. For now though buying tier 8 premiums isn't really worth it unless you buy yourself some of the overpowered tanks and it makes more sense to buy a good tier 7 premium if you're looking for a farming tank and want to win games at the same time. I recommend the VK 45.03 for that purpose.


I fear the current system is just making it more and more punishing to play fair/underwhelming tanks like tier 8 mediums with 240 alpha and these tanks are absolutely not worth your money now. The life is hard enough for these tanks as it is and the last thing the game needs is making it even more painful to play them. Preferential matchmaking tanks also greatly suffer from having some 175 penetration and seeing almost exclusively tier 8-9 tanks. On the other hands the long term result is that players will just play their Defenders and Patriots more. This needs a fix.


Edited by kripton69, 11 June 2017 - 07:18 PM.


farko1 #2 Posted 11 June 2017 - 06:53 PM

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No chance ...

İ fell wery nice n my is6 when im against chrysler ...



vidde12321 #3 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:04 PM

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Would like the summary marked as "TL;DR: "

JuliusCheddar #4 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:06 PM

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+1

JuliusCheddar #5 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:08 PM

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View Postvidde12321, on 11 June 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

Would like the summary marked as "TL;DR: "

Tl;dr sheer amount of tier 8 vehicles makes them meet tier Xs in 80% of battles. 



Chamil1976 #6 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:09 PM

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+1 this is BS...playing tier 7-8 platoons since last patch feels like being punished ffs.

vidde12321 #7 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:12 PM

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View PostJuliusCheddar, on 11 June 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

Tl;dr sheer amount of tier 8 vehicles makes them meet tier Xs in 80% of battles. 

 

Oh, yes, I've touched on this countless times. It's all about the player distribution by tier. By playing a tank in tier 3-8 you just screw yourself over and basically guarantee a bad time. Tiers 1,2,9,10 are the way to go if you want fair matchmaking.

I_DiD_ #8 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:39 PM

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View Postfarko1, on 11 June 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

No chance ...

İ fell wery nice n my is6 when im against chrysler ...

 

Idk why such people dont whine about SP? That tank is broken as Edited. Strange 

 

Or Lowe which become better hull down then Edited T34


Edited by Asklepi0s, 13 June 2017 - 02:22 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


JocMeister #9 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:44 PM

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Until prem 8 sales start to drop they won´t do a thing.

I_DiD_ #10 Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:52 PM

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But idk what are those morons at WG office smoking or drinking... But they destroyed T8 MM , they knew that people buy premiums not for fun but to make silvers.

 

But if you face 90% of you games in TX games, you need to spam Edited  gold ammuniton. And spaming premiums shells give you very bad profit.

 

So next stop is only fort knox or some other Edited only to spend real money. 

 

And Edited  are we,  whcih are supporting such BeloRussian Edited 


Edited by Asklepi0s, 13 June 2017 - 02:23 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


enu_ #11 Posted 11 June 2017 - 08:34 PM

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this is even worse for tanks with pref MM

NiemandXL #12 Posted 11 June 2017 - 08:47 PM

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You play tier 8 tanks these day for when you feel like playing tier X but have to much contempt for the skill of other players to actually pick a tier x tank to play^^

 

This was sarcasm by the way. I'm really enjoying my Cent 1 grind. It's such a great tank and the epic tier 8 MM just makes the experience so much better...



happyal #13 Posted 12 June 2017 - 12:00 AM

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Perhaps you are now expected to just buy Silver? Maybe WG have run out of new prem tanks to add?

Isharial #14 Posted 12 June 2017 - 12:53 AM

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can I just quote this part:

 

Tanks faced:

Total: 1035

Tier 6: 21
Tier 7: 74
Tier 8: 581
Tier 9: 266
Tier X: 93


 

you still technically faced more of your own tier than any other tier, and in a sense, that is actually balanced and the MM is working, your facing your own tanks more than any other tier (and that's the whole point isnt it?)

you may think that not facing T6 is bad, but you must think about it from the T6's view, they barely ever see T4 either... T6 are left behind in the powercreep, some T8's are pretty tough opponents for them, and if T8's don't see them too often, then, in my mind, that's a good thing

having to fight 2 VK100P's and a Chrysler K with a T6 med isnt a fun or exciting game.. your T8's don't usually end up being their counters, and sometimes end up being a Lorr, a T28 and a T34.. not much use against those 3 wolfpacking...

the only T6 TD capable of penning them repeatedly is the nashorn.. and the Chrysler will spot it as soon as it fires as the camo is terrible...


 

playing T6 vs T8 is as bad as how you feel with T8 vs T10


 

the balance between tiers is too large now.. and the MM does help to fix that a little, even at the expense of not being top tier much, which imo, is fine by me



enu_ #15 Posted 12 June 2017 - 03:01 AM

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but you don't face your tier, most of the time you are in t10 (3-5-7) or t9 (5-10) battles. you could then say same for t6, t6 will have most t6 in their game. if t6 med have problem penning 2 vk100.1p and chrylser k, imagine t8 med (let say t44) trying to pen 2 maus and type 5 heavy

Search_Warrant #16 Posted 12 June 2017 - 03:35 AM

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Tier 6 vs tier 8. whats a tier 6 supposed to do to a tier 8? any tank vs Defender? Chrysler? free food.

NervosCuNervii #17 Posted 12 June 2017 - 07:21 AM

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In a nutshell, the new matchmaker keeps everyone wound up as you no longer get that break after a streak of bottom tier games, in which you are top tier and chill by clubbing some bottom tier tanks.
You now constantly play as bottom and mid tier tank and it wears dull after a while, especially when grinding tanks and don't have free xp to get the top gun (+tracks).

lonigus #18 Posted 12 June 2017 - 07:37 AM

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Tier 8 is annoying to play and even more so with a 2 - 3 man platoon. That screws the MM even more up. 

 

I would rather play tier 7 premiums tbh. They earn less money, BUT see way more lower tiers. I wouldnt really bother with tier 8 premiums UNLESS its a Skorpion or Defender.



Jigabachi #19 Posted 12 June 2017 - 08:08 AM

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I don't have too many problems with the MM, but the tank balance simply sucks.
Most tVIII matches I got were tVIII only, filled with Defenders and Chryslers. Sooo... actually, I'd love to trade those matches for tIX ones...

T_H_F #20 Posted 12 June 2017 - 08:14 AM

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Play T8, seldom T9+10, to hard to carry for me,,, but yes, after last patch one see a lot of T10, BUT it make me better i think in the long run..




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