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Defender needs to be permanant removed.


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Search_Warrant #1 Posted 14 June 2017 - 06:30 PM

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I mean removed as in Removed from the game and all accounts (including mine)

 

This thing is so broken. tier 9 heavys are scared of this thing, they cant pen it ether! hide LFP and they cant do anything!

 

http://wotreplays.co...t_252u_defender

 

T-10 and E75 dare not pass me. i ruined them as they aimed at me and gave up....



Erwin_Von_Braun #2 Posted 14 June 2017 - 06:32 PM

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Never going to happen:amazed:



blacklist3d #3 Posted 14 June 2017 - 06:37 PM

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they should have shoot your cupola instead :)

 



Ceeb #4 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:03 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 14 June 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

I mean removed as in Removed from the game and all accounts (including mine)

 

This thing is so broken. tier 9 heavys are scared of this thing, they cant pen it ether! hide LFP and they cant do anything!

 

http://wotreplays.co...t_252u_defender

 

T-10 and E75 dare not pass me. i ruined them as they aimed at me and gave up....

 

​I get penned all the time.... I demand a refund... my 252 is broken 

kripton69 #5 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:11 PM

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View Postblacklist3d, on 14 June 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

they should have shoot your cupola instead :)

 

 

With the current aiming mechanics pixel sniping is just not worth it. Unless you have time to sit still and aim for some 5 seconds you miss a vast majority of the shots. Even perfectly aimed shots will usually miss unless the Defender is 25m from you. Standing still for 5 seconds isn't the best play you can do against a Defender and it declines even further if the Defender has any support at all.

 

Taking pixel shots is a bad play most of the time because by entering your state of reload you concede the initiative to the enemy. Means, you let him take the good position and pre-aim or allow him to advance further or find better cover. When you have to stop for 5 seconds to aim and still miss most shots it's ridiculously easy to counter such plays by taking snap shots, wiggling and having cover nearby to deny those fully aimed shots. No offence meant but such pixel cupolas are a blessing against players like you who insist on pixel sniping against an already overpowered 440 alpha tank. Basically the approach you take keeps the Defender exactly within its comfort zone.


Edited by kripton69, 14 June 2017 - 07:13 PM.


TRXnMe #6 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:12 PM

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I have killed a few with my Skorpion G, they aren't impenetrable, just very shell resistant :)

 

Get it in the right place and it's why Arty and SPAM exist, but drive it like a noob and it will get hurt.

 

I don't think it should ever have been put into the game, but it's here now and we have to live with it, or go play one of the other MMO games around.



Balc0ra #7 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:15 PM

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I suspect you are gonna pay the refund for everyone then? Since I suspect a "gold" refund won't cut it for most if they did.

 

Then again they are not gonna sell it again anytime soon. If ever. It's a beast when top tier unlike the Chrysler, and indeed OP then. But like the Chrysler... it's not something you see carry often, or live long in +1/2 games.



TRXnMe #8 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:16 PM

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View Postkripton69, on 14 June 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

 

With the current aiming mechanics pixel sniping is just not worth it. Unless you have time to sit still and aim for some 5 seconds you miss a vast majority of the shots. Even perfectly aimed shots will usually miss unless the Defender is 25m from you. Standing still for 5 seconds isn't the best play you can do against a Defender and it declines even further if the Defender has any support at all.

 

Taking pixel shots is a bad play most of the time because by entering your state of reload you concede the initiative to the enemy. Means, you let him take the good position and pre-aim or allow him to advance further or find better cover. When you have to stop for 5 seconds to aim and still miss most shots it's ridiculously easy to counter such plays by taking snap shots, wiggling and having cover nearby to deny those fully aimed shots. No offence meant but such pixel cupolas are a blessing against players like you who insist on pixel sniping against an already overpowered 440 alpha tank. Basically the approach you take keeps the Defender exactly within its comfort zone.

 

The only ways I can make cupola shots work are either sit on top of a hill and shoot as they try to crest, assuming the cupola is in view, or the usual TD method of letting somebody else take the risk while I hide behind a few bushes and make the shot blind into the outline.

 

I barely remember the last time I hit a cupola while driving a 'proper' tank, I know it was in the Caernarvon, but it is so long ago I don't recall when :(



Rammste1ner #9 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:17 PM

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I have Defender, and very decent stats in it. And i can say that armor of defender is overrated...once people learn,its not that hard  to deal with defender. Its gun its the strongest point, armor.....not so much.

kripton69 #10 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:20 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 14 June 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

I suspect you are gonna pay the refund for everyone then? Since I suspect a "gold" refund won't cut it for most if they did.

 

Then again they are not gonna sell it again anytime soon. If ever. It's a beast when top tier unlike the Chrysler, and indeed OP then. But like the Chrysler... it's not something you see carry often, or live long in +1/2 games.

 

With 440 alpha, decent mobility and armor that still bounces tier 9-10 tanks it's perfectly fine against higher tiers and farming something like a T-54 is a piece of cake because it can't penetrate you anywhere with AP and even if it loads gold your armor still bounces plenty of it and you hit much harder. It's not just an overpowered top tier, it's also the best bottom tier of all tier 8 tanks.

 

I think this image will explain it better than any words I can conjure:

 



RamRaid90 #11 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:22 PM

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TVP T50/51 was "OP" when released....people moaned and moaned and moaned about it...

 

Then WG did nothing about it...

 

Then suddenly nobody considers it OP anymore....

 

Defender and 252U will be the same...



RamRaid90 #12 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:27 PM

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View Postkripton69, on 14 June 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

 

With 440 alpha, decent mobility and armor that still bounces tier 9-10 tanks it's perfectly fine against higher tiers and farming something like a T-54 is a piece of cake because it can't penetrate you anywhere with AP and even if it loads gold your armor still bounces plenty of it and you hit much harder. It's not just an overpowered top tier, it's also the best bottom tier of all tier 8 tanks.

 

I think this image will explain it better than any words I can conjure:

 

 

Natural player progression means that win rate curves don't mean much at all, even less for new tanks.

 

Everyones overall win rate should be higher on a tank they havent played since the beginning of their account.



FluffyRedFox #13 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:28 PM

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View PostRammste1ner, on 14 June 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

 And i can say that armor of defender is overrated...once people learn,its not that hard  to deal with defender. Its gun its the strongest point, armor.....not so much.

Da, because we all know how terrible a 215mm effective lower plate is...



cro001 #14 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:28 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 14 June 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

TVP T50/51 was "OP" when released....people moaned and moaned and moaned about it...

 

Then WG did nothing about it...

 

Then suddenly nobody considers it OP anymore....

 

Defender and 252U will be the same...

 

TVP is still OP lol.

kripton69 #15 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:30 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 14 June 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:

TVP T50/51 was "OP" when released....people moaned and moaned and moaned about it...

 

Then WG did nothing about it...

 

Then suddenly nobody considers it OP anymore....

 

Defender and 252U will be the same...

 

The only reason why TVP isn't OP anymore is because WG went full hate against tier 10 mediums and designed even more overpowered tanks and made the whole game revolve around retardproof super heavies. In the last patch they also [edited]ed up the only game mode in which mediums are better than heavies, meaning Assault. 

 

TVP isn't the only victim of this. There's absolutely no point in playing sh*t tanks like Russian hovermeds anymore. It goes even worse for tanks like Leopard 1 or AMX 30B that weren't good to begin with. Tier 9 is now the only high tier in which mediums are still powerful enough to be worth playing. The only medium at tier 10 worth playing is the super broken, also recently overbuffed Object 907 that you can't damage and track in one shot.

 

Defender isn't going to be a victim of this at all. Just look at the graph I posted above and if you can say with a straight face that everything is fine you just have zero understanding of the game. Don't take this as offence, it's just the truth and someone had to say it. This tank is just about as terribly overpowered as it gets, all the numbers agree about it and yet there are some people who think that decently mobile tank with a tier 9.5 armor and tier 8.75 gun is balanced by two pixel sized cupolas.


Edited by kripton69, 14 June 2017 - 07:34 PM.


kripton69 #16 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:37 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 14 June 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

 

Natural player progression means that win rate curves don't mean much at all, even less for new tanks.

 

Everyones overall win rate should be higher on a tank they havent played since the beginning of their account.

 

Funny that no other new tanks seem to show a performance like this, not even tanks like Patriot that are also new but widely regarded to be extremely powerful. I mean a 440 alpha heavy with fair gun handling and mobility with tier 9.5 armor is totally fair at tier 8.

 

If they put it back on sale, I'll buy it and I'll show everyone just how insanely overpowered the tank is.



Velvet_Underground #17 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:40 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 14 June 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

 

Natural player progression means that win rate curves don't mean much at all, even less for new tanks.

 

Everyones overall win rate should be higher on a tank they havent played since the beginning of their account.

 

You do know that the green line shows the performance during the last 30 days, right? Those are recent stats, meaning that natural progression etc is completly irrelevant and does not explain the absurd overperformance of the likes of defender and other retarded heavies.

RamRaid90 #18 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:43 PM

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View Postcro001, on 14 June 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

 

TVP is still OP lol.

 

It's good, but not overpowered. BC 25t is a far better tank (hence why TVP isn't as widely used in E-sports or even randoms anymore)

 

The only thing the TVP has going for it is the gun handling and burst damage. DPM isnt great because of the lowered alpha damage, for a tier X it has fairly low penetration (only slightly but trust me it is noticeable), it's the size of a small house and gets spotted very easily, it has no armour, and it is quite sluggish.



EltvilleTiger #19 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:43 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 14 June 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

I mean removed as in Removed from the game and all accounts (including mine)

 

This thing is so broken. tier 9 heavys are scared of this thing, they cant pen it ether! hide LFP and they cant do anything!

 

http://wotreplays.co...t_252u_defender

 

T-10 and E75 dare not pass me. i ruined them as they aimed at me and gave up....

 

LOL   ... double-LOL

RamRaid90 #20 Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:45 PM

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View Postkripton69, on 14 June 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

 

The only reason why TVP isn't OP anymore is because WG went full hate against tier 10 mediums and designed even more overpowered tanks and made the whole game revolve around retardproof super heavies. In the last patch they also [edited]ed up the only game mode in which mediums are better than heavies, meaning Assault. 

 

TVP isn't the only victim of this. There's absolutely no point in playing sh*t tanks like Russian hovermeds anymore. It goes even worse for tanks like Leopard 1 or AMX 30B that weren't good to begin with. Tier 9 is now the only high tier in which mediums are still powerful enough to be worth playing. The only medium at tier 10 worth playing is the super broken, also recently overbuffed Object 907 that you can't damage and track in one shot.

 

Defender isn't going to be a victim of this at all. Just look at the graph I posted above and if you can say with a straight face that everything is fine you just have zero understanding of the game. Don't take this as offence, it's just the truth and someone had to say it. This tank is just about as terribly overpowered as it gets, all the numbers agree about it and yet there are some people who think that decently mobile tank with a tier 9.5 armor and tier 8.75 gun is balanced by two pixel sized cupolas.

 

Not at all, the tank is extremely strong. But unlike seeing a tomato in a Maus or type 4/5 heavy I don't see defenders as a big threat in general.




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