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HEP rounds not working

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sabre_ferret #1 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:20 AM

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Am I wrong in thinking that HEP rounds are supposed to be good?  I just had another game in my Blackdog ruined by HEP not working as it's supposed to.  Having caught my opposite number by surprise, and had my AP round detrack him from 90deg on (how does that even work btw?), I switched to HEP to finish him, as he was only on 600HP at this stage, and with a maximum armour thickness of 48mm that I can find (through the one of the wheels), and an average thickness of 25mm, I should have had no issues with full pen each shot.  Instead, I had under 100dmg three shots in a row, allowing him to hit and pen me with AP twice, and a UDES to then snipe me from range to end my game.  I'm used to HEP being a bit troll when long range sniping against Skorpions and the like, but this sort of situation is surely what HEP is designed for.  I'm getting quite fed up with one of the strong points of this vehicle seemingly being completely negated by the game not following the rules as advertised.  

 

Of course, missing Skorpions from 20m range fully aimed is a whole other fun story...  



gpalsson #2 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:24 AM

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Are you hitting spaced armor? Do you have the replay?

HEP is just HE with some more penetration. Aim for the thin flat parts and hope RNG allows you to hit that part.


Edited by gpalsson, 15 June 2017 - 09:26 AM.


Gvozdika #3 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:24 AM

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British HESH Rounds say hi.

 

 



Homer_J #4 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:29 AM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 15 June 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

 I switched to HEP to finish him, as he was only on 600HP at this stage, and with a maximum armour thickness of 48mm that I can find (through the one of the wheels), and an average thickness of 25mm, I should have had no issues with full pen each shot. 

 

It works as HE so it doesn't matter how little total armour it will explode at the first layer.  You shoot the tracks they work as very effective spaced armour and soak up most of your HE damage.



RamRaid90 #5 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:33 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 15 June 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

 

It works as HE so it doesn't matter how little total armour it will explode at the first layer.  You shoot the tracks they work as very effective spaced armour and soak up most of your HE damage.

 

IIRC, when using HE shells it creates the blast radius on impact, then automatically calculates the damage caused based on the weakest armour within the blast zone.

 

If any external modules are within the blast radius they may soak up the damage caused to the HP of the vehicle as the take damage themselves.


Edited by RamRaid90, 15 June 2017 - 09:34 AM.


gpalsson #6 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:33 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 15 June 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

 

IIRC, when using HE shells it creates the blast radius on impact, then automatically calcualtes the damage caused based on the weakest armour within the blast zone.

 

Yes.

 

https://worldoftanks...ge-explanation/

Non-penetrating HE Round

  • When an HE round contacts the armor but does not penetrate the tank, a sphere radiates outward from the point of contact.
  • A 45 degree cone is then internally generated from the weakest armor point within the sphere (the angle of “HE penetration” also affects the angle at which the cone is generated).
  • If the armor, at the point of contact, is spaced armor, a 45 degree cone is generated between the first and second plates. A second 45 degree cone is then generated internally based on the weakest point of contact on the second plate.
  • Any modules/crew within the cone will be damaged accordingly.
  • As with all HE splash, damage is decreased over distance, both outside and inside the tank. 

Edited by gpalsson, 15 June 2017 - 09:35 AM.


RamRaid90 #7 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:40 AM

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View Postgpalsson, on 15 June 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

 

Yes.

 

https://worldoftanks...ge-explanation/

Non-penetrating HE Round

  • When an HE round contacts the armor but does not penetrate the tank, a sphere radiates outward from the point of contact.
  • A 45 degree cone is then internally generated from the weakest armor point within the sphere (the angle of “HE penetration” also affects the angle at which the cone is generated).
  • If the armor, at the point of contact, is spaced armor, a 45 degree cone is generated between the first and second plates. A second 45 degree cone is then generated internally based on the weakest point of contact on the second plate.
  • Any modules/crew within the cone will be damaged accordingly.
  • As with all HE splash, damage is decreased over distance, both outside and inside the tank. 

 

Which explains why a Maus takes huge damage from the Type 5 when you shoot at his turret ring. It calculates the damage based on the armour of the engine deck. Which obviously is poor.

Homer_J #8 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:50 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 15 June 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

 

IIRC, when using HE shells it creates the blast radius on impact, then automatically calculates the damage caused based on the weakest armour within the blast zone.

 

If any external modules are within the blast radius they may soak up the damage caused to the HP of the vehicle as the take damage themselves.

 

The damage is reduced by the distance between the detonation point (which will be the outer skin of the tracks if you hit those) and whichever section of hull armour it uses for the calculation.

 

Also penetrating and non penetrating HE are handled differently, non penetrating creates a spherical blast, penetrating creates a cone.  I would assume that a HE shell which penetrates the first layer of spaced/track armour is dealt with as penetrating but where WG is concerned you can never be too sure.

 

And it is not simply the weakest armour within the blast, it is the weakest armour with a direct, unimpeded line from the blast point.


Edited by Homer_J, 15 June 2017 - 09:52 AM.


gpalsson #9 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:53 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 15 June 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

 

Which explains why a Maus takes huge damage from the Type 5 when you shoot at his turret ring. It calculates the damage based on the armour of the engine deck. Which obviously is poor.

Yep.

The part about shooting under certain tanks may also be of interest.

Non-contacting HE Round

  • When an HE round contacts the ground near a tank, a sphere radiates outward from the point of contact.
  • When the sphere comes into contact with a point on the tank, a 45 degree cone is internally generated at the weakest point of contact.
  • Any modules/crew within the cone will be damaged accordingly.
  • As with all HE splash, damage is decreased over distance, both outside and inside the tank. 

 

Basically, if you are in a type 5 and meet another type 5, shoot under the enemy if you can.


Edited by gpalsson, 15 June 2017 - 09:55 AM.


RamRaid90 #10 Posted 15 June 2017 - 10:11 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 15 June 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

 

Also penetrating and non penetrating HE are handled differently, non penetrating creates a spherical blast, penetrating creates a cone.  I would assume that a HE shell which penetrates the first layer of spaced/track armour is dealt with as penetrating but where WG is concerned you can never be too sure.

 

 

It would seem so, and explains why "penetrating" hits to the track wheel with HE never have enough penetration potential remaining to penetrate the hull proper, thus cuausing zero damage crits.

gpalsson #11 Posted 15 June 2017 - 10:17 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 15 June 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

 

It would seem so, and explains why "penetrating" hits to the track wheel with HE never have enough penetration potential remaining to penetrate the hull proper, thus cuausing zero damage crits.

 

It will still often cause some damage unless the side armor is really thick, but it can't penetrate for full damage AFIK. 

 

 

 


WindSplitter1 #12 Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:00 PM

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View Postgpalsson, on 15 June 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

View PostRamRaid90, on 15 June 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

 

Which explains why a Maus takes huge damage from the Type 5 when you shoot at his turret ring. It calculates the damage based on the armour of the engine deck. Which obviously is poor.

Yep.

The part about shooting under certain tanks may also be of interest.

Non-contacting HE Round

  • When an HE round contacts the ground near a tank, a sphere radiates outward from the point of contact.
  • When the sphere comes into contact with a point on the tank, a 45 degree cone is internally generated at the weakest point of contact.
  • Any modules/crew within the cone will be damaged accordingly.
  • As with all HE splash, damage is decreased over distance, both outside and inside the tank. 

 

Basically, if you are in a type 5 and meet another type 5, shoot under the enemy if you can.

 

This is exactly why direct hits from artillery cause less damage than near misses on purpose.



DeathByDribbling #13 Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:29 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 15 June 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

It would seem so, and explains why "penetrating" hits to the track wheel with HE never have enough penetration potential remaining to penetrate the hull proper, thus cuausing zero damage crits.

 

You could have 10000 penetration but if you hit anything that counts as spaced armour including tracks you don't pen.  Once you've not penned then the pen number means nothing and has no effect on the damage calculation.

DorsVenabiIi #14 Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:16 PM

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HEP can troll you as much is it can troll the one you are shooting at.





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