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Heavy Tank No.6 vs. Tiger 131

Tiger131 131 Tiger

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Dexatroph #1 Posted 16 June 2017 - 03:51 PM

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Hello WG,

 

the Tiger 131 will be introduced to the game in some days and I would like to use my chance to ask Wargaming and its WoT Specialists how it comes that identical tanks differs in some questionable stats.

 

 

1. Why the PzGr. 39 (AP) shell costs are different?  240 Credits for the Japanese Tiger vs.  252 Credits for the Tiger 131?

2. Why the Pzgr. 40 (APCR) shell velocity is different? 930m/s on the Japanese Tiger vs. 966m/s on  the Tiger 131?

3. Why the Sprgr. (HE) shell velocity is different? 800m/s on the Japanese Tiger vs. 773m/s on the Tiger 131?

4. Why the Tiger 131 will have a worse concealment than the Japanese Tiger? (Tiger 131 can't add camo, while Japanese Tiger can add camo)

 

5. Also I'm woundering why the Japanese Tiger is equipped with a FuG 5 (620m) while Tiger 131 is equipped with a FuG 7 (710m)?

 

Both tanks was build/assembled at the same time (1943), the Tiger 131 in the early 1943 while the Japanese Tiger in the mid/end of the year 1943. 

 

However, 1 - 4 are the more questionable points than the radios. Can you have a look and maybe let correct these strange differences? Or maybe you have some info why it is this way?

 

Thank you.

 


Edited by Dexatroph, 16 June 2017 - 04:17 PM.


Enforcer1975 #2 Posted 16 June 2017 - 03:53 PM

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Because balancing the exact same tank is too difficult and they need to feed nitpickers.
Srsly though no idea. That why they suck at balancing the game when they can't even balance a true vehicle clone. Maybe import tax for shipping? HE shell fly faster because they need to be lighter so japanese loaders can pick them up? 

Edited by Enforcer1975, 16 June 2017 - 03:56 PM.


Nishi_Kinuyo #3 Posted 16 June 2017 - 05:20 PM

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You forgot about Otto Carius' 217 Tiger, which should be available soonish as well.

Direct copy of the 131 if you wonder save for the cupola.



Dexatroph #4 Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:06 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 16 June 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

You forgot about Otto Carius' 217 Tiger, which should be available soonish as well.

 

 

No, I did not forget this tank, but thats a different story. The Tiger 217 is in supertest only and we don't know any of the stats/data in question.

 

Right now, I'm more interessted in these points I have listed for the both tanks in the game client. Why would a AP shell be more expensive, why the concealment is different and why the shell velocity is different for APCR & HE for the exact same tank with the same gun with the same shells. ;)

 

Regarding the Tiger 217: I hope it will be not just another copy of the same tank, since this will be a so called "HERO" tank and should be more enjoyable and so slighty different/better. 



Isharial #5 Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:15 PM

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View PostDexatroph, on 16 June 2017 - 07:06 PM, said:

 

No, I did not forget this tank, but thats a different story. The Tiger 217 is in supertest only and we don't know any of the stats/data in question.

 

Right now, I'm more interessted in these points I have listed for the both tanks in the game client. Why would a AP shell be more expensive, why the concealment is different and why the shell velocity is different for APCR & HE for the exact same tank with the same gun with the same shells. ;)

 

Regarding the Tiger 217: I hope it will be not just another copy of the same tank, since this will be a so called "HERO" tank and should be more enjoyable and so slighty different/better.

 

concealment appears to be different because the tank is slightly different shaped, the 131 has a "taller" silhouette in the garage, indicating there must be a difference, though I cannot see it, its obviously not a direct port or colour scheme because the silhouette would be the same otherwise.. (comparing it to the jap tiger)

 


 

as to the other questions.. it really doesn't make much sense


Edited by Isharial, 16 June 2017 - 07:16 PM.


Alex_Connor #6 Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:31 PM

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The Tiger 131 model is directly based on the HT No.VI model which is directly based on the Tiger I model, there is no difference in size. OP simply got the angle off slightly making that comparison gif.

 

Camo value is simply down to how the game handles tanks with special paintjobs, which is they get a higher base value but lower than the same vehicle with applied camo. On the other hand, because the base value is higher if you use a crew with camo skill the special paintjob version will have slightly better overall camo. Compare tanks like Defender vs Obj 252 to see how this works.

 

I'm at a loss over the differences in shell performance and cost though.


Edited by Alex_Connor, 16 June 2017 - 07:57 PM.


Nishi_Kinuyo #7 Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:47 PM

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View PostDexatroph, on 16 June 2017 - 06:06 PM, said:

 

No, I did not forget this tank, but thats a different story. The Tiger 217 is in supertest only and we don't know any of the stats/data in question.

 

Regarding the Tiger 217: I hope it will be not just another copy of the same tank, since this will be a so called "HERO" tank and should be more enjoyable and so slighty different/better. 

Stats were posted yesterday on the armoured patrol:

https://thearmoredpa...man-heavy-tank/

It is identical, except for the cupola.


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 16 June 2017 - 09:48 PM.


BP_OMowe #8 Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:52 PM

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View PostDexatroph, on 16 June 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

the Tiger 131 will be introduced to the game in some days and I would like to use my chance to ask Wargaming and its WoT Specialists how it comes that identical tanks differs in some questionable stats.

 

1. Why the PzGr. 39 (AP) shell costs are different?  240 Credits for the Japanese Tiger vs.  252 Credits for the Tiger 131?

2. Why the Pzgr. 40 (APCR) shell velocity is different? 930m/s on the Japanese Tiger vs. 966m/s on  the Tiger 131?

3. Why the Sprgr. (HE) shell velocity is different? 800m/s on the Japanese Tiger vs. 773m/s on the Tiger 131?

5. Also I'm wondering why the Japanese Tiger is equipped with a FuG 5 (620m) while Tiger 131 is equipped with a FuG 7 (710m)?

 

Both tanks was build/assembled at the same time (1943), the Tiger 131 in the early 1943 while the Japanese Tiger in the mid/end of the year 1943. 

 

However, 1 - 4 are the more questionable points than the radios. Can you have a look and maybe let correct these strange differences? Or maybe you have some info why it is this way?

 

One could speculate in that the ammunition is domestically produced, and the radio set compatible with the Japanese radios, but then again historical concerns does not seem to be high on Wg's priority list as of late.

Alabamatick #9 Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:16 PM

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View PostDexatroph, on 16 June 2017 - 06:06 PM, said:

 

No, I did not forget this tank, but thats a different story. The Tiger 217 is in supertest only and we don't know any of the stats/data in question.

 

Right now, I'm more interessted in these points I have listed for the both tanks in the game client. Why would a AP shell be more expensive, why the concealment is different and why the shell velocity is different for APCR & HE for the exact same tank with the same gun with the same shells. ;)

 

Regarding the Tiger 217: I hope it will be not just another copy of the same tank, since this will be a so called "HERO" tank and should be more enjoyable and so slighty different/better. 

 

According to supertest stats, the 217 has 740.4m signal range, slightly faster turret traverse (+0.9m/sec) and slightly lower terrain resistance

 

and slightly better gun handling, however i'm told that's probably due to free BIA perk

 

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2017/06/15/supertest-otto-carius-tiger-217-tier-6-premium-german-heavy-tank/

 

https://thedailybounce.net/2017/04/28/world-of-tanks-9-19-supetest-tiger-131-pictures-armour-stats/



Alex_Connor #10 Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:22 AM

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View PostAlabamatick, on 16 June 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

 

According to supertest stats, the 217 has 740.4m signal range, slightly faster turret traverse (+0.9m/sec) and slightly lower terrain resistance

 

and slightly better gun handling, however i'm told that's probably due to free BIA perk

 

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2017/06/15/supertest-otto-carius-tiger-217-tier-6-premium-german-heavy-tank/

 

https://thedailybounce.net/2017/04/28/world-of-tanks-9-19-supetest-tiger-131-pictures-armour-stats/

 

Look at the stats for Tiger 131 here, it's identical to what the armored patrol has for Tiger 217.

 

http://tanks.gg/tank/tiger-131

 

It's something to do with base values in games files vs ingame performance with commander bonus for the rest of the crew.



xtrem3x #11 Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:24 AM

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I have the Jap Tiger and already have a couple of premium German heavies so I guess there is no reason for me to buy the 131..?

lafeel #12 Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:27 AM

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View Postxtram3x, on 17 June 2017 - 12:24 AM, said:

I have the Jap Tiger and already have a couple of premium German heavies so I guess there is no reason for me to buy the 131..?

 

Can never have too many crew trainers to be fair. That and it's actually a bit of a historically significant tank.

Dexatroph #13 Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:37 AM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 16 June 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

 

One could speculate in that the ammunition is domestically produced, and the radio set compatible with the Japanese radios, but then again historical concerns does not seem to be high on Wg's priority list as of late.

 

Sound like we are deeply in the bag of tricks to explain such differences what are questionable for the exact same tank + armament and to be honest they don't really make sense to me. 

 

Both Tigers were assembled in the same plant and equipped with the same equipment in 1943.  The Japanese ordered (1943) and paid (1944) for a fully equipped and (original) ammunition loaded Tiger I. 

As a site note: The Japanese Tiger (as well as the Tiger 217) should be equipped with the HL230 (700hp) engine when historical concerns would be a priority.  Tiger tanks started to be equipped with that engine by May 1943. Also the Japanese Tiger would have the improved smaller (with 6 angle mirrors) cupola. But I wouldn't start a general discussion about that. 

 

All in all I just think that the shell cost and shell velocity should not be different, but maybe I missed something.

 

View PostAlex_Connor, on 16 June 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

 

Camo value is simply down to how the game handles tanks with special paintjobs, which is they get a higher base value but lower than the same vehicle with applied camo. On the other hand, because the base value is higher if you use a crew with camo skill the special paintjob version will have slightly better overall camo. Compare tanks like Defender vs Obj 252 to see how this works.

 

 

Wonder why WG haven't found  a solution for that issue what last for a year now.  "Concealment" is not the perk/skill you train on heavy tank crews and as result you have worse concealment for the same tank.

 


Edited by Dexatroph, 17 June 2017 - 09:54 AM.


Alex_Connor #14 Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:11 AM

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View PostDexatroph, on 17 June 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

Wonder why WG haven't found  a solution for that issue what last for a year now.  "Concealment" is not the perk/skill you train on heavy tank crews and as result you have worse concealment for the same tank.

 

There's really nothing in it, we're talking HT No.VI with 14.32 vs 14.48 on the Tiger 131 with crew camo on both tanks. Gap is a little bigger without crew camo, HT No.VI 8.5 vs 7.64 on the Tiger 131, but then again you don't have to buy camo on the Tiger 131.

 

Would always go for the better looking version, you'll never notice the difference.



Plasma_Fire #15 Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:42 AM

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Every game has difficulty levels. WoT is no exception.

Plasma_Fire #16 Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:43 AM

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View PostAlex_Connor, on 17 June 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

 

There's really nothing in it, we're talking HT No.VI with 14.32 vs 14.48 on the Tiger 131 with crew camo on both tanks. Gap is a little bigger without crew camo, HT No.VI 8.5 vs 7.64 on the Tiger 131, but then again you don't have to buy camo on the Tiger 131.

 

Would always go for the better looking version, you'll never notice the difference.

 

If there is nothing in it why change it at all?

They changed it because the developers know there is something in it.



kripton69 #17 Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:25 AM

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If it comes with a Berlin crew it may be worth it but that's literally the only reason to buy it. There's absolutely no substance to the tank itself. It's just a bad tank of a branch that offers two much better tech tree options(Löwe/VK 45.03) that are always available.

Balc0ra #18 Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:12 AM

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I suspect point 4 is a display bug. Like it has been on the last few premiums that comes with the skin % already.

RamRaid90 #19 Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:43 AM

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So you expect that they're going to bring out a new tank, that alot of people have asked them for, and make it exactly the same as the tank already in the game?

 

They have to make it  better, to make sure it sells. This really isnt rocket science.

 

 



Dexatroph #20 Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:37 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 17 June 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

So you expect that they're going to bring out a new tank, that alot of people have asked them for, and make it exactly the same as the tank already in the game?

 

They have to make it  better, to make sure it sells. This really isnt rocket science.

 

 

 

You did not read the post, did you? You missed the point. All in all they are exactly the same.

 

They have questionable not that important differences between them, what should not really happen in the first place. So to speak the Japanese Tiger should get corrected the small inaccuracy in the gun stats to become euqal to other tanks with the same armament (8.8 36 L/56).

 

As a fact: In reality the Japanese Tiger was more modern than the Tiger 131. 

 

Btw. I hope they will make the Tiger 217 somehow different/better, since this was the most modern Tiger (produced end of 1943/begin of 1944) out of these 3. He got the smaller cupola ingame (as you can see on leaked screenshots) already, but they should also give him the HL230 engine with 700hp, because that would be the original equipment of the Tiger 217. But thats  another topic. :)

 

 

 

 


Edited by Dexatroph, 17 June 2017 - 11:38 AM.






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