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Boot Camp

9.19.1

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MrConway #1 Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:07 PM

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Please leave any feedback on the boot camp here.

Mad_F #2 Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:23 PM

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Just completed the tutorial. Looks much better than the old one. Here's some detailed feedback...

 

considering technical issues:

  • Do you get to keep...
    • the tank(s) that you choose?
    • the 100% + 1 skill crew for free?
  • How come neither of the above (nor prem acc, nor 500 gold) can be found in the garage, when returning from bootcamp? (I suppose, it's because I had completed the old tutorial, which offered a meager reward compared to that.)

 

considering conceptual issues:

  • Why do the bots in the simulated random battle almost not shoot back at all? I suppose, you wanted to make it easy. Problem is new players are left unprepared for real random battles, if the tutorial is like that. They'll think they were the greatest and could rush in, because no one could hit them. You need to ramp up the difficulty in the tutorial step by step. The simulated random battle should be almost as hard as a real one, i.e. you lose about 50% of the time, unless you're really good.
  • Maybe you can put another tutorial level in, which shows the "proving ground" battle mode. It's another step enabling new players to self train until they are ready for a harder simulated/actual random battles.
  • There's a small part about hiding and spotting, which is good. However you need to show that ignoring it is bad. I was able to just rush in and take out all the bots except for the B1. That's where you need to start with a bit of difficulty.
  • A part about using your own armor (aka angling) is missing. You don't need to introduce it as a first step but please keep it in mind and add it in future versions.
  • Adding additional tactics (like peek-a-boo) would be good, too. That is both ways. Have a bot that has slow reload and thus performs peek-a-boo. Explain what's its advantage. Then have a bot with faster reload than the player and propose to imitate the peek-a-boo that the slow-shooting bot had displayed just before.
  • One bot did sucide spotting. Here an explanation was missing, what it is and why it's bad. Otherwise it was totally ok that a bot did it at that point.

 

Of all the proposed additional content, I think the "proving ground" battle mode level is most important. Plus, it's probably easy to add, because everythign is already in place, except for an animation how to activate that battle mode. I'd insert it directly before the simulated random battle.


Edited by Mad_F, 22 June 2017 - 10:28 PM.


Thuis001 #3 Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:55 PM

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I think the new boot-camp is a HUGE improvement over the last training thing. Altough I see a lot of things that are lacking.

1. How to scout, this is probably one of the hardest aspects of the game to do right, and often you see lights rushing the enemy and die in like 1-3 minutes having wasted all the potential, if you show good scout spots in maps, and teach people how to scout that might just happen a little less.

2. The difficulty of the Boot-camp, I get it, this is making people ready, but people won't be ready to face actual combat after this, they expect enemies that do almost no damage and are stupid as hell shooting only once every five seconds or so. Make the bots shoot more often and do the full damage potential, then people will be more prepared for the hell that is tier I-III. (also a few more of the spamguns would be nice)

3. Angling, once again this is one of the harder things to do right, and it would be nice if the game learned you this. 

4. tracking, shooting of the tracks of an enemy can be really usefull and this was something I actually missed here.

 

Also, maybe add in boot camp stuff that you will unlock when you reach higher tier vehicles, like angling/side-scraping. I mean if you take any Matilda or any tier V heavy then you unlock the angling/sidescraping tutorial learning you how to do so, and for the scouting you could unlock that when you get a Tier V light, because before that there is no real purpose to it.

Maybe a thing that will show what the general strong points are of a class would be great, like sniping with TD's, ruining the day of people with an arty, or brawling with an heavy. (exept if you are a < Tier 8 german heavy in which case you should snipe instead, unless you want a slow and painfull dead)


Edited by Thuis001, 23 June 2017 - 05:56 PM.


Mad_F #4 Posted 24 June 2017 - 09:44 AM

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View PostThuis001, on 23 June 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

[...] for the scouting you could unlock that when you get a Tier V light, because before that there is no real purpose to it. [...]

 

While I generally agree, I have to dissent on this point. There are some tier 3 lights that are really great for spotting: BT 7, Pz1C,...

I have about 60% winrate on hundreds of battles on those, just because I can influence tier 5 games by doing some good spotting runs just below some ridge lines or passive spotting (which is explained somewhat).

 

Angling can be done successfully with an AMX38 or even in a Pz1C vs Pz1C situation (its top gun can't penetrate its own front when slightly angled). Angling really helps against the low penetration of machine guns (I think you called them spamguns).

 

The point I like most about your post is the idea of "sending" people back to boot camp when they advance beyond a certain point. For me reviewing the spotting mechanics (https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be) helped even after 10k battles. Maybe WG could offer missions in the boot camp for credit rewards to people, who prove to haven't grasped the game concepts (thousands of battles and WR below 44%) yet.

 

I'm not saying it should pay off to suck. I'm saying there should be an incentive to review the game mechanics so you might get better. Thus balancing the rewards would be a difficult job here.



Mad_F #5 Posted 24 June 2017 - 09:58 AM

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Actually my last sentence above spawned another idea: The "tutor" game mode.

The idea is that people teach each other the game mechanics and get rewards for doing so. Thus you can join this mode either as tutor or as trainee.

 

Tutors

  • don't carry ammo and thus can't shoot.
  • They get rewards for stuff like spotting, surviving a length of time, bouncing shots, ...
  • Tutors should be able to mark spots. You (WG) could reuse the mechanics for artys (change view and press t). So they can explain things like:
    • There's a good place to snipe from.
    • Hide there and don't shoot.
    • ...

 

Trainees

  • get low tier tanks
  • they get the usual rewards for spotting, damage, bouncing shots,...

 

The teams consists either of

  • tutors and advanced trainees 
  • tutor vs. beginner trainees (of course tutors can't win this)

 

Yes, I know most of this is possible with team training. I've also shown some friends the basic tricks of the trade. However there's currently no incentive to do so for strangers. I've still done it occasionally but I think the community could benefit from an incentive to help each other.



Michael_Pludez #6 Posted 28 June 2017 - 10:59 AM

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I've just tried the tutorial. As someone said before me, it's much better than the old one.

 

  • It explains much better how to play, and especially the mechanics of the game (bushes, how you get spotted)
  • It explains how to use consumables and equipments
  • It explains what you should do during a battle against certain types of enemies

 

In a word: fantastic

 

But there are a few problems...

 

  • Proceeding in the tutorial, the difficulty level remains always the same, when instead you should ramp up it step by step

               (how sayd Mad_F, I have the same thinking during the training)

  • Bots seem inconscious of what is happening around them (ex. If you get behind them, they don't attack you, they look something else), and sometimes they do some strange actions (BT-7 came in front of me with only 10 HP, sure Death)

 

...and questions.

 

  • Do you keep what you get inside the boot camp (tanks, consumables, equipment...)?
  • Why don't you show in the training the different types of shells, and also the different types of tanks? (explain them, it would be really useful)

 

But generally thinking, this is a big update for the training mode.

 


Edited by Michael_Pludez, 28 June 2017 - 12:38 PM.


Melebo #7 Posted 28 June 2017 - 03:35 PM

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Like others said, great improvement. Nice 'start small and expand' progression. Few things:

obviously the voice-over was russian, took me a few seconds to remember the CT is cross region.

 

-I noticed a lack of incoming fire, but I saw it's already mentioned. This should really be increased througout the tutorial. In randoms newbies will be punished.

- During the zoom explanation the 'push shift to zoom' is not explained. I know a lot of people only scroll but I always use the shift key so I'd suggest to explain both.

- In the 2nd match during the flanking excersise (kudo's for including that) I noticed you can't shoot the tracks off. I get that you don't want to throw everything at once but why disable shooting tracks off?

- In the 3rd match I noticed the objective markers were not visible in sniper view, probably holds for all tutorial battles.

- Also in 3rd match, during explanation of base capture, I suggest to also mention the maximum of usefull cappers is 3 and that cap point reset only count for the tank which is damaged.

- The 4th match had very easy crit dmg. Fires everywhere. Might want to mention that's not realistic in randoms.

- 5th battle, Random Battle, it says they are real people but I doubt it. You are lying to your new customers ;) Also, no 'bootcamp top gun medal'.

 

Anyway, like everyone says in the thread it's good but it needs more content. What I suggest:

Build a complete menu to appear after pressing "enter bootcamp". After the current bootcamp is finnished, explain to players how they can enter back into the menu (I expect bootcamp automatically runs on first play). At this menu, offer the opportunity to redo the 5 different excersises and offer 'advanced' and 'expert' courses or whatever name you like. Completely new players shouldn't take in too much information so after current bootcamp let them play around in randoms and give each new course a specific battles played to unlock. These courses should include stuff like sidescraping, leading targets, why tracking is usefull, AMMUNITION TYPES (caps lock because I just realized it completely missed in bootcamp, jesus, important much...) and on 'expert level' you could put stuff like the precise camo/spotting system and ricochet angles.

 

Hope someone actually reads this stuff.

 

Cheers.



vidde12321 #8 Posted 29 June 2017 - 06:52 PM

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I really enjoyed the bootcamp. To be honest, it's actually better than the real game to some extent. Kind of just made me crave for a mode with less players like 5v5. The atmosphere was just so much more intense and enjoyable when you are not just one of 15 desperate for damage.

And it shows the russian bias perfectly with the SU76I!

Just kidding, but it would be nice with a more in-depth tutorial with elements like sidescraping, leading shots, and going hull-down. Something that, what feels like way too many current players could benefit of.

 

Also, I managed to get shot by certain teammates. Not sure if intended. Guess it actually kind of reflects the real game in a sad way.

Lastly: the music. Why is it so much better in bootcamp?

 

Needs fixing:

Edit: There was one problem. It reset your free xp, gold, and premium account days.

Edit2: It reset a lot of my settings like sights, sensitivity, and overlay.


Edited by Nohe21, 03 July 2017 - 03:06 PM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to red text use.


Bitter_Kipper #9 Posted 01 July 2017 - 12:33 PM

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Tried Boot camp. Very good first step

First the bad

It reset my settings. The tutorial was in Russian......... Even after I reset everything. 

The Minor

The more technical elements missing regarding use of armour and aiming, but....

People have already mentioned, next step training and that would be beneficial to all.

 

What an improvement over the old system. If this continues to evolve it will better arm new players and they might stay in the game longer.

Lets face it who wants to play a game where you get owned and don't know why. 

Tank on tank warfare is not intuitive, look how long real life took to evolve effective tactics and understanding.



Kayi4ek #10 Posted 03 July 2017 - 03:47 PM

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View PostMelebo, on 28 June 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Hope someone actually reads this stuff.

 

Cheers.

 

Yes, we do :) Thank you guys for the feedback :honoring:



lewisdawson1 #11 Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:48 PM

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Great tutorial, clearly improving over the old outdated tutorial but I would say there should be a few improvements. Maybe these should be included in an "Advanced boot camp" of sorts.

You teach players:

 

  • How effective armour works (Angling your armour) and how to use it in certain situations
  • How camo rating and view range works
  • An explanation of vehicle classes. It should be noted that not all vehicles in a class follow the same role. E.g TDs with good and bad manoeuvrability.

 

 

A great improvement overall!

 


Edited by lewisdawson1, 12 July 2017 - 07:48 PM.






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