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T-54 git gud Advice

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Havoc7926 #1 Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:00 PM

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Slow day at work so I'm going to ask some advice on the WoT forum.  Yeah we shall see how that turns out.

 

Disclaimers.  Yeah I'm a bad player with little free time, no premium account but a few premium tanks.  My stats are from all the way back to when the game started and I don't even own most of the tanks anymore.

History.  Back in the day I always wanted the T-54.  I rushed up the medium line until I eventually got one.  At that time it was the end of the tree so I played it a bit until it was fully upgraded.  Eventually I had the 'best tank in the game' but was still rubbish in it.  Went back to it at some point to grind up to the Obj 140 but still was rubbish in the T-54.  I've got the 140 now but only played 18 games in it and unsurprisingly I'm as rubbish in that as I an the T-54.  My whole T-54 career has been without using premium ammo which is not an excuse for the bad results but something to consider.

Recently.  I had to have a go at the new game mode so I've played my only Tier X's the IS-7 and Obj 140 a little recently (Those games don't show in the stats I believe).  It's rekindled my desire to learn to properly play the T-54.

The Questions.  I've looked at you tube videos and I'm happy to be critical of myself and really try and 'git gud' but a little starting advice from those who can already play Russian meds well would be nice.

 

With no premium account should I be concentrating on the Obj 140 to avoid the Prem ammo spam that I understand most people use in their T-54's or should I stick with the T-54 for those games where I'm top tier and can go against tier VII opposition?  It's not about having an easy ride it's about getting the most games out of the silver I'm going to be haemorrhaging during the learning phase.

 

Learning is going to be expensive which I intend to fund with my premium tanks.  Probably the Skorp G, VK 45.03.  The Rudy can also help train the crew.  Is there a lower tier tank that behaves close enough to the role of the T-54 or Obj 140 that I could also have cheaper 'learning' games in or is it better to just play the actual tank as much as I can?

 

So there you go, all comments welcome but please remember that unless it's helpful enough for me to 'git gud' you will only have yourself to blame when your team includes that tomato T-54 player you wished knew how to play.   :facepalm:

 



Unkel_Dolan #2 Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:03 PM

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quadruple tap 2 at the start of every game

JocMeister #3 Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:26 PM

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Sadly braintuma is right. 201 PEN simply isn´t enough at tier 9. Especially in the current META where 70-80% of the teams are broken overbuffed HTs.

 

You need that 330 pen for the T-54 to reach its full potential. Basically that HEAT pen is what makes the T-54. Its not for nothing its call HEAT-54. Take away that and you have a pretty weak MT which is just average at everything. Granted the turret is pretty good but the bad DEP makes it hard to use properly.



Havoc7926 #4 Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:34 PM

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Point taken about the '2' key.  I thought that would be the case if I'm honest.  So the question remains then.  Stick to the T-54 and accept that it's expensive to run and bad games will cost me a small fortune or play the Obj 140 instead.  That doesn't seem to need as much premium ammo with the base pen of 264 and it's gun stats are (predictably) better in every way (apart from after firing).  Obviously that is offset by it being more expensive to run simply because it's a tier higher.

Edited by Havoc7926, 19 June 2017 - 04:34 PM.


Enforcer1975 #5 Posted 19 June 2017 - 05:31 PM

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View PostJocMeister, on 19 June 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Sadly braintuma is right. 201 PEN simply isn´t enough at tier 9. Especially in the current META where 70-80% of the teams are broken overbuffed HTs.

 

You need that 330 pen for the T-54 to reach its full potential. Basically that HEAT pen is what makes the T-54. Its not for nothing its call HEAT-54. Take away that and you have a pretty weak MT which is just average at everything. Granted the turret is pretty good but the bad DEP makes it hard to use properly.

 

That's sadly true...i have to tap 2 quite a few times just to offset the damage that the carry tanks couldn't rake in for the team only to end up in the red most of the time but that damage is done too late to make a difference, really having a hard time getting the damage and wr up lately, so many braindead teams. I can't understand how the enemy plows through them while having minimal losses in tanks and HP in less than 5 minutes. It seems a lot of players would rather lose than press 2 key and be done with these abominations. There are some games where everyone just uses prem the moment they see a Godzilla tank. Tap 2 pew pew pew Godzilla dead before it can reload....win. Plus my T-54 seems to hate me.

Edited by Enforcer1975, 19 June 2017 - 05:32 PM.


Folau #6 Posted 19 June 2017 - 05:37 PM

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T-54 just isn't as good as it used to be for a couple of reasons:

 

  • 201 pen is just not great any more, so you have to spam HEAT like it's going out of fashion in frontal engagements.
  • The armour is just not as good as it used to be because of inflated pen and gold. Previously I would be fairly confident hanging the turret out, but these days too many tanks can go through it.

 

The 62A/140 are huge improvements because they get APCR standard which is pretty tasty (pen and velocity) and have much more workable armour. They still aren't fantastically protected, but it's better than the poor old T-54.



Search_Warrant #7 Posted 19 June 2017 - 05:53 PM

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Load HEAT, autoaim at everything, get damage and win.

CptBarney #8 Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:11 PM

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I still use ap in my object 430-2 xD

Witsdontlie #9 Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:26 PM

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I did decently in it, 57% WR over 264 battles.

 

1) Always assume you have no armor. Turret is good but not impenetrable. If I'm not mistaken the ammo rack is behind your frontal track wheels so try never to get hit there from the side. 

2) Wiggle a lot while moving when you have to get shot. 

3) 20/22/8 ammo loadout. Prepare to pay to play that tank. 

4) Sixth sense, the accuracy skills for driver and gunner, and whatever you like between adrenaline and safe stowage for the loader. Then all camo as second skill. 



robezur6 #10 Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:27 PM

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2x2, gg easy.

TankkiPoju #11 Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:53 PM

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Real pros just switch HEAT and AP ammo in garage... no need to even tap 2 key.

iztok #12 Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:11 PM

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It's not the tank. It's the game that changes in high tiers. You simply must re-learn it. Basically: camp good position and NEVER advance in unknown.

Havoc7926 #13 Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:11 AM

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Thanks everyone.  I did a little experiment last night and ran the Obj 140 for 4 games.  I was rubbish of course and have a lot to learn (over extended and got swamped one game, too many bounces in all games) but it felt like I could have been useful if only I was a better player.  I lost on average around 6k silver a game which given my poor performance is trivial.

 

So it looks like the poor T-54 will sit in the garage a bit longer and I'll use the Obj 140 to improve my tomato stats into banana stats before thinking about using it.

 

I may be delusional but I think there are a few basic things (positional awareness and learning weak spots are the main two for now) that should help me improve reasonably quickly.



_EXODUZ_ #14 Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:27 AM

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This little article by Kewei may be good for your learning approach

 

http://wotlabs.net/a...ple-timely-way/



Kozzy #15 Posted 20 June 2017 - 09:58 AM

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View PostHavoc7926, on 20 June 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

Thanks everyone.  I did a little experiment last night and ran the Obj 140 for 4 games.  I was rubbish of course and have a lot to learn (over extended and got swamped one game, too many bounces in all games) but it felt like I could have been useful if only I was a better player.  I lost on average around 6k silver a game which given my poor performance is trivial.

 

So it looks like the poor T-54 will sit in the garage a bit longer and I'll use the Obj 140 to improve my tomato stats into banana stats before thinking about using it.

 

I may be delusional but I think there are a few basic things (positional awareness and learning weak spots are the main two for now) that should help me improve reasonably quickly.

 

Don't give up just yet!  

 

Funnily enough the T54 was one of my very first tier 9 tanks, years and years ago when mediums stopped at tier 9.  I sucked in it, massively.  I when the T62 came out I ground out the XP, got the T62 and sold the T54.

 

After starting to improve my game play, asking questions on the forums (like you are now) watching replays and reading guides (and many other things that non-conspiracy theorists might try) I decided to have a bit of an experiment.

 

I chose several tanks that I performed badly in and tried to improve my stats in them, in particular the T54.

 

Here are my before stats in the T54:

Games        WN8            WR              Av DMG

546            1,519            46.74%        1,422    

 

I wanted to see how long it would take to get that hopeless WR up to 50% and what kind of stats I needed to get there:

 

This is what I ended up with:

764            1,863        50%            1,588

 

So this is a change of +3.26% WR, +344 WN8 and +166 average damage per game in 218 games, not a huge change really but these are increases to the averages over ALL games in the T54.

 

This gives 'session' stats for this period of:

218            2,724        58.16%        2,003

 

I was fairly pleased with this and compared to how I played years ago I feel I have improved a lot.  So, basically, look up what other people do in the tank.  Listen to people who do really well and ask unicums for there advice.  If what you are doing is not working over the long run then change it!



Havoc7926 #16 Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:21 AM

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I've not given up on the T-54 I just think that I can learn the basics of Russian med play in the Obj 140.  The reason is that I think it is slightly more forgiving that the T-54 and also cheaper to run.  Being cheaper it will allow me to get more reps in before I need to bash out some games in a premium to cover the cost.

 

it's because I have such a long way to go that I feel I can use either tank at the start.  The idea is simply this.  Play a game then honestly think about what went wrong and how to mitigate that in the future.  From just 4 games last night it was obvious that I need to look at weak spots on the tanks I'll be facing now and that my tendency to advance until 'first contact' is not suitable for higher tier play.  In one of the better games I managed to hold a ridge for a while and score some damage but as soon as the 'reds' worked out I had no support they just swarmed me and it was all over.  I should either of been aware enough not to over extend to that position or to fall back from it after causing them to pause their advance and been long gone before they could swarm me.  When you are talking about mistakes that are as fundamental as that it matters little if I'm driving an Obj 140 or a T-54.  I can get away with idiocy like that at lower tiers because a lot of the time there is not enough co-ordination and the reds come at you in a nice conga line 

 

Also because I have so few games in the Object (22 now) compared to the the T-54 (520) I don't have a long history of bad games to dilute the stats.  Once I've got 100 or more games in the object the stats should start to become representative of my play now.  Stats are not everything but they do help a little to figure out where improvements can be made.

 

Eventually I'll go back to the T-54 but I'd like to be a little better in general before I do that.



Enforcer1975 #17 Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:31 AM

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I doubt a tier 10 will be cheaper to run. If you don't play well i'm sure the repair cost alone is punishing enough. The standard pen can ofc save you money when you have to spam that much prem at some tanks only to be able to pen.

Kozzy #18 Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:34 AM

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Whatever tank you chose, you are doing the right thing (the thing that most people who suck at the game and try to blame other people/mm/rigging etc for their poor performance on don't do), and that is looking at what YOU are doing and what YOU can contribute to the team.  Doing this means you can work out your strengths and weaknesses improve where you can.

 

View PostHavoc7926, on 20 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Stats are not everything but they do help a little to figure out where improvements can be made.

 

 

^^ If only the stats deniers would at least acknowledge this and that THEY are the person most in control of their stats.

 

I do suggest you revisit the T54 at some point with a hundred games or so and see how much you've improved.  I found it quite interesting myself.



Lomion_EU #19 Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:40 AM

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View PostHavoc7926, on 20 June 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

Thanks everyone.  I did a little experiment last night and ran the Obj 140 for 4 games.  I was rubbish of course and have a lot to learn (over extended and got swamped one game, too many bounces in all games) but it felt like I could have been useful if only I was a better player.  I lost on average around 6k silver a game which given my poor performance is trivial.

 

So it looks like the poor T-54 will sit in the garage a bit longer and I'll use the Obj 140 to improve my tomato stats into banana stats before thinking about using it.

 

I may be delusional but I think there are a few basic things (positional awareness and learning weak spots are the main two for now) that should help me improve reasonably quickly.

 

@Havoc7926:  Linked to my Ace Tanker game in the T-54 which is a good indication of how I play the tank, probably even more aggressive in it now than at that time. W/R is now 57.8%, average damage is 1,500+ with a WN8 of just over 1600.

 

I did fire heat at the end of this game, but only because I was on low health and wanted to make sure of killing the JPZII in two which was the biggest threat at the end.  But I rarely fire HEAT and have a number of games in the last 4 weeks above 2.5K where no HEAT was fired at all.

 

 

PS Bonus content Obj 140 Ace (Older replay but gameplay is unchanged even in the current patch

 


Edited by Lomion_EU, 20 June 2017 - 10:54 AM.


kripton69 #20 Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:45 AM

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T-54 is one of those tanks that used to be awesome before the power creep and before the HD nerf some years ago and are still carrying the reputation of being "the best tank ever" despite being the worst medium of its tier without gold ammo and even with full gold it's far weaker than players like to give it credit for and some way off the really good tier 9 mediums like E50, M46 or Skoda T50. A full gold E50 or M46 is so much better than a full gold T-54 that it's not even funny.

 

It'll be an expensive journey to get through the tank. What's worse that I don't really see even Object 140 or T-62A being particularly good anymore. The low alpha and situational armor make them pretty average in the current meta which is 90% Standard and 90% of the Standard maps are dumbed down corridors with some base camping opportunities and heavies are much better metagame choices than mediums. You either need a lot of armor, a hard hitting gun or an autoloader for a tank to be good nowadays of which T-54 really has none. The hull is only really good against tanks with less than 200 penetration(tier 8 mediums), the turret is easily penetrable for anything with 220-230 penetration(meaning almost every tier 9-10 tank) and the gun has diarrhea alpha, bad velocity and only decent gun handling with terrible penetration. The DPM is good but with a somewhat derpy 320 alpha gun with terrible penetration it doesn't matter that much. You'll be spamming lots of gold and only end up with a decent tank.

 

I think you're up for a lose-lose situation if you're expecting a good tank here. 


Edited by kripton69, 20 June 2017 - 10:45 AM.






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