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WG, Ranked Battles are not a legitimate substitution for CW.


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shishx_the_animal #1 Posted 21 June 2017 - 01:41 PM

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First of all, CW has been frozen for weeks and you still haven't announced when it continues, not to mention that you didn't even announce the results of the last season. I'm not even mentioning the fact that we're still waiting for a campaign. Is it still coming or did you put Ranked Battles instead of that? If so, then you messed up. Ranked Battles are not related in any way to Clan Wars. It's virtually the same as random battles. We play CW to escape the generic boring gamemode that is called random battles.  CWs should always be available and replacing it with another boring game mode is unacceptable. 

 

Also, while you're at it, please also fix CW in the way that is described in very good detail here: http://forum.worldof...-how-to-fix-it/



NiemandXL #2 Posted 21 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

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View Postshishx_the_animal, on 21 June 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Also, while you're at it, please also fix CW in the way that is described in very good detail here: http://forum.worldof...-how-to-fix-it/

 



maroar #3 Posted 21 June 2017 - 02:33 PM

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Well, WG, for some weird reason, seems to be wanting to destroy the team based playmodes.

I have no clue why this is, as the old CW map led to stories that formed through the sandbox style, this can be compared to EVE: online.

To me EVE is completely boring, and I heard it is so for others as well, but a lot of those people play it because they get fully emersed in those stories and that history. Something that has been lost in World of Tanks and it seems that that led to a lot of players leaving from the active "clan war clans", and a lot of them being totally inactive or almost inactive.

 

What might be playing a part right now, as to why there is no CW, is that this hides the fact - a bit atleast - that there were almost solely premium tanks being played on T8 (and the 907 on T10 as the medium, which is almost as big of a problem).

The fact that the MM got changed for T8s in the previous patch strengthens that idea for me. As I found the MM great beforehand I even bought the Löwe, the T8 MM finally seemed workable for me. However, what those battles showed was that the T8s I was playing (including the Lowe and the Panther 8.8) that those new T8 premiums were so strong again, stronger than the already to strong IS-3.

By making it so that T8s see top tier MM less often, you achieve your goal - if that is to cover up the strenght of these bought tanks - of them having less of a profound influence on the outcome of the battle, as the higher tier vehicles can (mostly) deal with these P2W tanks.

The only other solution they had, which is what they should have done, is nerf the tanks (and maybe give money back to those people who bought them).



FireflyDivision #4 Posted 21 June 2017 - 02:43 PM

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View Postmaroar, on 21 June 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

What might be playing a part right now, as to why there is no CW, is that this hides the fact - a bit atleast - that there were almost solely premium tanks being played on T8 (and the 907 on T10 as the medium, which is almost as big of a problem).

The fact that the MM got changed for T8s in the previous patch strengthens that idea for me. As I found the MM great beforehand I even bought the Löwe, the T8 MM finally seemed workable for me. However, what those battles showed was that the T8s I was playing (including the Lowe and the Panther 8.8) that those new T8 premiums were so strong again, stronger than the already to strong IS-3.

By making it so that T8s see top tier MM less often, you achieve your goal - if that is to cover up the strenght of these bought tanks - of them having less of a profound influence on the outcome of the battle, as the higher tier vehicles can (mostly) deal with these P2W tanks.

The only other solution they had, which is what they should have done, is nerf the tanks (and maybe give money back to those people who bought them).

 

Well, it still seems weird why they disable CW. You would think that they would enable CW and sell those premiums and make money off it. Or... if they care about balance... they can simply solve a big part of the problem by re-enabling tank locking (which again will increase their profits as people will grind tanks). Disabling & ruining CW is the worst "solution" of all. 



maroar #5 Posted 21 June 2017 - 02:45 PM

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Yes, I still do not get why they seem to be wanting to destroy that part of the game.

As it is probably what kept a game as boring as EVE alive.



HeathLedger_ #6 Posted 21 June 2017 - 02:55 PM

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View Postmaroar, on 21 June 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

Well, WG, for some weird reason, seems to be wanting to destroy the team based playmodes.

 

They're doing this to pander to the average or below average player. There's no other way.

 

They've destroyed CW income and competitiveness just to make sure that average clans can compete in their own way. They've destroyed SH as it rewarded being good and average clans had a hard time getting much out of it. Ranked is dead on arrival as there is no real skill-limitation to reaching rank 5. Campaigns have gone from exclusive tank rewards to individual grinds for the tank(although it's also still a contest of skill in that, so I give it a free pass personally). 

 

It's not hard to see what they're doing. They're ruining previously fun and exclusive game modes that rewarded effort to make them accessible to average players and give them good feels because they think they're good. But the rewards have to be appropriately crapbecause you are giving them to a lot of players by doing that. So what you get is a crapgame mode that doesn't reward anyone properly, like SH. Advances and skirmishes reward everyone with a set maximum amount of boxes, except if you're good you have way better competition. War games, the skill element in SH, has already been delayed indefinitely as far as I can tell. Wouldn't want to exclude anyone from any rewards now would we?



FireflyDivision #7 Posted 21 June 2017 - 02:56 PM

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View PostHeathLedger_, on 21 June 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

 

They're doing this to pander to the average or below average player. There's no other way.

 

They've destroyed CW income and competitiveness just to make sure that average clans can compete in their own way. They've destroyed SH as it rewarded being good and average clans had a hard time getting much out of it. Ranked is dead on arrival as there is no real skill-limitation to reaching rank 5. Campaigns have gone from exclusive tank rewards to individual grinds for the tank(although it's also still a contest of skill in that, so I give it a free pass personally). 

 

It's not hard to see what they're doing. They're ruining previously fun and exclusive game modes that rewarded effort to make them accessible to average players and give them good feels because they think they're good. But the rewards have to be appropriately crapbecause you are giving them to a lot of players by doing that. So what you get is a crapgame mode that doesn't reward anyone properly, like SH. Advances and skirmishes reward everyone with a set maximum amount of boxes, except if you're good you have way better competition. War games, the skill element in SH, has already been delayed indefinitely as far as I can tell. Wouldn't want to exclude anyone from any rewards now would we?

 

Well the issue is that top clans and average clans are united on this matter. I still haven't met an average clan that likes the current system more than the old one. 

 

You can't change CW to make a specific group of people happier without actually asking them what the problem is and how it should be fixed first. Most changes were implemented suddenly.


Edited by FireflyDivision, 21 June 2017 - 03:04 PM.


HeathLedger_ #8 Posted 21 June 2017 - 03:13 PM

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View PostFireflyDivision, on 21 June 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

Well the issue is that top clans and average clans are united on this matter. I still haven't met an average clan that likes the current system more than the old one. 

 

You can't change CW to make a specific group of people happier without actually asking them what the problem is and how it should be fixed first. Most changes were implemented suddenly.

 

Still, I can't think of any way to ruin literally every single game mode except for randoms if it's not intentional. SH and CW on their own I could attribute to incompetence, but [edited]up a skill-mm system when they've already worked with ELO-ratings and such is an impossible level of incompetence, even by WG's standards. And if they can [edited]up ranked battles in order to make it a grindfest that 46%ers can participate in, then what are the chances the SH and CW changes were sheer incompetence? 

Kozzy #9 Posted 21 June 2017 - 03:46 PM

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How should CW/SH/Advances etc actually be?  What is a good format that rewards skillful play while not penalising smaller, less active (and less skillful?) clans to the point where they don't bother?  Genuine question as I have no idea what the right answers are.

brumbarr #10 Posted 21 June 2017 - 03:53 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 21 June 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

How should CW/SH/Advances etc actually be?  What is a good format that rewards skillful play while not penalising smaller, less active (and less skillful?) clans to the point where they don't bother?  Genuine question as I have no idea what the right answers are.

 

For SH, easy, remove the skill based MM. SH was completely fine before th changes, except the attacks and defenses, which they solved with advances, noone asked for skirmish changes.

 

CW, not as simple, but you can tweak the income and amount of regions to make regions for diferent levels.

 

And even then, is it wrogn to have a gamemode that is only for the best?  



_LorenzoVonMatterhorn_ #11 Posted 21 June 2017 - 03:56 PM

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You don't have to penalise anyone, you just can't award everyone. That takes away the whole idea of competitive gamemode. Pretty much everyone can improve their skill enough to have decent results in any gamemode. CW 2.0 was decent at the beggining, but there were too much new features. When WG started changing it in order to award more weaker clans without increasing number of provinces, they destroyed CW. Why can't we get back the old CW with few improvements and more provinces? You can't take poo and make something good with it. Sometimes it's better to reset, get back to what was good and start from that point.

Kozzy #12 Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:04 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 21 June 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

 

For SH, easy, remove the skill based MM. SH was completely fine before th changes, except the attacks and defenses, which they solved with advances, noone asked for skirmish changes.

 

CW, not as simple, but you can tweak the income and amount of regions to make regions for diferent levels.

 

And even then, is it wrogn to have a gamemode that is only for the best?  

 

 

What problems did adding the skill based MM cause in SH?  (again, I am not that clued up on this).  The whole attack/defense thing is just stupid in my opinion and leaves things open to abuse.

 

Also, I agree that having a game mode for the best players is essential if the game is to be taken seriously at all.  I assume participation numbers were never an issue in CW?

 



HundeWurst #13 Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:05 PM

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Shishx making a topic which does not include or is based on homophobic hate speech :D ?

 

Sorry had to do as I have never seen you making an own topic and on top about something I thought you dont even care about. DOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Edited by WunderWurst, 21 June 2017 - 04:10 PM.


shishx_the_animal #14 Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:07 PM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 21 June 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

Shishx making a topic which does not include or is based on homophobic hat speech :D ?

 

Sorry had to do as I have never seen you making an own topic and on top about something I thought you dont even care about. DOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

KA-POW!

qpranger #15 Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:08 PM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 21 June 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

Sorry had to do as I have never seen you making an own topic ...

 

He's probably just eaten too much foreign candy.

Kozzy #16 Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:09 PM

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View Post_LorenzoVonMatterhorn_, on 21 June 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

You don't have to penalise anyone, you just can't award everyone. That takes away the whole idea of competitive gamemode. Pretty much everyone can improve their skill enough to have decent results in any gamemode...

 

I totally agree, excellence needs to be rewarded and people expecting things just for participating is just dumb.  I simply meant that if the weaker clans got nothing out of it other than providing fodder for the stronger clans then they may lose incentive and so the stronger clans will have fewer clans to play against etc etc...

 

View Post_LorenzoVonMatterhorn_, on 21 June 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

...When WG started changing it in order to award more weaker clans without increasing number of provinces, they destroyed CW. 

 

I am not heavily into the whole CW can you explain this bit for me?  What was the implication of this?

 



FireflyDivision #17 Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:25 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 21 June 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

How should CW/SH/Advances etc actually be?  What is a good format that rewards skillful play while not penalising smaller, less active (and less skillful?) clans to the point where they don't bother?  Genuine question as I have no idea what the right answers are.

 

I put some ideas here: http://forum.worldof...-how-to-fix-it/

 

Anyway, I myself was mostly part of "weaker" clans during CW 1.0. My first big project was back in a clan with mostly yellow and green (wn8 scale) players. Even though that was the case, we still had alot of fun and we were enjoying CWs. We first started out in Africa. That was the place for the "weaker" clans. The overall skill level was low in that region and the good clans mostly didn't play in that region due to its low gold income. Our dream was to improve so that we could eventually take some of the higher value provinces in Europe. The Cw system back then contributed to our motivation. At some point, after hard training, we managed to do it. We managed to take a couple of provinces in Spain. 

 

Really, the old system was perfect and gave a chance to everyone. CW was so successful that the amount of clans increased exponentially. This caused the map to be clogged up. The only thing WG had to do was to make the map bigger. However, they went overboard and introduced features and rules that no one wanted. 

 

 



Kozzy #18 Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:29 PM

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View PostFireflyDivision, on 21 June 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

 

I put some ideas here: http://forum.worldof...-how-to-fix-it/

 

Anyway, I myself was mostly part of "weaker" clans during CW 1.0. My first big project was back in a clan with mostly yellow and green (wn8 scale) players. Even though that was the case, we still had alot of fun and we were enjoying CWs. We first started out in Africa. That was the place for the "weaker" clans. The overall skill level was low in that region and the good clans mostly didn't play in that region due to its low gold income. Our dream was to improve so that we could eventually take some of the higher value provinces in Europe. The Cw system back then contributed to our motivation. At some point, after hard training, we managed to do it. We managed to take a couple of provinces in Spain. 

 

Really, the old system was perfect and gave a chance to everyone. CW was so successful that the amount of clans increased exponentially. This caused the map to be clogged up. The only thing WG had to do was to make the map bigger. However, they went overboard and introduced features and rules that no one wanted. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the explanation, it's all quite interesting.  What were the implications of having loads of clans on the map?  Did this in itself cause issues?

brumbarr #19 Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:34 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 21 June 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

 

 

What problems did adding the skill based MM cause in SH?  (again, I am not that clued up on this).  The whole attack/defense thing is just stupid in my opinion and leaves things open to abuse.

 

Also, I agree that having a game mode for the best players is essential if the game is to be taken seriously at all.  I assume participation numbers were never an issue in CW?

 

 

Problems with skill based MM in SH:

- Clans get pushed towards 50% wr, so bad clans win as much as good clans and earn the same amount of resources.  

-No incentive to improve

- No longer can you afford a non optimcal setup if you want to win, so players are forced to pick the new OP premium tanks and spam gold.

 

Yes, the attack /defense was an issue, and they resolved that, but that was all that needed changing.



h4ctor #20 Posted 21 June 2017 - 04:35 PM

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hahahaaa down with the bourgeoisie,long live the proletariat :izmena:

 

 






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