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ST: French TD & MT rebalance


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Dr_Oolen #21 Posted 22 June 2017 - 03:49 PM

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Meh, gun dispersions will be the deciding factor here, cant evaluate anything with these stats. With sick gun dispersions the tds could be good/ok, but if they are bad (same level as now without autoloader), the tanks will be still useless shits. Same with amx 30b... unless it has dispersions similar to rasha meds/m48 it will be useless. With dispersions similar to rasha meds and dpm somewhere in between rasha meds and patton it could actually be competitive.

fighting_falcon93 #22 Posted 22 June 2017 - 03:52 PM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 22 June 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

That sounds  an awfull lot like a l2p issue.

 

Ofc it does. I bet I'll hear that when I reach 3k WN8 aswell :rolleyes:

 

But hey maybe with your expertise you could demonstrate to all of us how you bounce a lot in it when it gets released? I'm always willing to learn from better players...



Velvet_Underground #23 Posted 22 June 2017 - 04:01 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 22 June 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

 

Ofc it does. I bet I'll hear that when I reach 3k WN8 aswell :rolleyes:

 

But hey maybe with your expertise you could demonstrate to all of us how you bounce a lot in it when it gets released? I'm always willing to learn from better players...

 

It's the same old problem with you, you just expect your armor to do everything for you with no input from you whatsoever. Start using your your gun handling to snap shots in, wiggle and dodge to minimize the risk of taking damage instead of just sitting hull down with one hand down your pants, the other one clicking LMB every few seconds.

fighting_falcon93 #24 Posted 22 June 2017 - 04:09 PM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 22 June 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

instead of just sitting hull down with one hand down your pants

 

Having one hand in my pants sounds nice, but I can't becuase I need to drive up and down the slope in order to peek and hide.

 

And then once again we have that wiggeling tutorial:

1. Press W and S like if you had Parkinsons.

2. Move the mouse around like if you had an epileptic attack.

3. Get penned by good players anyway and realise that this tactic only works against Bobs.

 

Yeah usefull armor mate, let's have more whack-a-mole gameplay in the tank game! :great: :harp: :bajan:



Pantzer #25 Posted 22 June 2017 - 04:12 PM

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Wait so they are giving the TD's better side armor (which is badly needed) but nerf the guns on the tier 8-9? It is the guns that need the most work....

Sargatanas2k2 #26 Posted 22 June 2017 - 04:14 PM

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Will the Foch roof still be the ultimate arty party target?

ares354 #27 Posted 22 June 2017 - 04:27 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 22 June 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

 

Dont worry. now it will be as historical as them anime tanks :P

 

Well sad story. I was first to say Foch 155 need buff to his gun, like remove autoloader and give his 155 mm gun good stats but no... AXM 30 get fake armor, and E50m still 185 m front turret plate, and Tiger 2 still paper....but AMX 30 b need armor buff, logic. 

HundeWurst #28 Posted 22 June 2017 - 04:29 PM

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View Postares354, on 22 June 2017 - 04:27 PM, said:

 

Well sad story. I was first to say Foch 155 need buff to his gun, like remove autoloader and give his 155 mm gun good stats but no... AXM 30 get fake armor, and E50m still 185 m front turret plate, and Tiger 2 still paper....but AMX 30 b need armor buff, logic. 

 

Did you actually expected WG to come up with something usefull :D ?

Quintuss #29 Posted 22 June 2017 - 04:31 PM

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French TDs? Meh. Useless tanks that will stay useless.

 

Who needs a TD with pen and alpha that barely over (at T8) and close to or even below HT levels (T9/10) while having no turret, no armour and less mobility? Just compare the Tier9 Foch with a T10 (russian T9 HT) or that new Tier10 Foch with the T110E5.... you find the french TDs loosing litterally in EVERY category that matters. Be it Pen or DPM or gunhandling,..... give up the turret and get inferiour armour - just to suck at everything.



Velvet_Underground #30 Posted 22 June 2017 - 04:53 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 22 June 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

And then once again we have that wiggeling tutorial:

1. Press W and S like if you had Parkinsons.

2. Move the mouse around like if you had an epileptic attack.

3. Get penned by good players anyway and realise that this tactic only works against Bobs.

You do know that you don't have to sit in the line fire 24/7, right?

 

View Postfighting_falcon93, on 22 June 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

Yeah usefull armor mate, let's have more whack-a-mole gameplay in the tank game!

Let's imagine one tank that is hull down (tank A), fighting against a tank that is out in the open (tank B).

Now let's say there are two possible scenarios.

Scenario 1: Tank B is in the unfavorable position and likely to lose if he doesn't take cover but he can still penetrate and damage Tank A with good aiming and/or luck.

Scenario 2: Tank B can not defend himself at all and he has to run away because Tank A is invulnerable.

 

Now which of those two scenarios sounds like whack-a-mole gameplay?

 

 



Uebergewicht #31 Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:20 PM

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... on the other hand, if the tier 10 autoloader does somehow get your flank or maybe finds you tracked in his line of fire, he will clip you for 2400 damage within 10 seconds. That doesnt sound like fun at all.

fighting_falcon93 #32 Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:24 PM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 22 June 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

You do know that you don't have to sit in the line fire 24/7, right?

 

No, but if you want to use your gun you have to show your turret. And that's when people will shoot you. Now if you have a bulletproof turret, you know that you can peek and still not get punished for it. If you have a paper turret, you know that you can only peek if you're unspotted and noone is aiming at you. The problem comes with turrets like the (new) 30B and E5. It depends on RNG where exactly the shell will hit, and thus you can't be sure if you'll bounce or not. So you'll play the tank as if it has no safe armor, but while it actually has completely useless armor. What's the point? You could just play a tank without turret armor and get other vehicle characteristics improved as compensation.

 

This is a typical case of nice armor on paper, useless armor in practise. Either you have a safe turret, or you don't. And which one of those 2 you have will depend on how you play that tank. 

 

View PostVelvet_Underground, on 22 June 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

Let's imagine one tank that is hull down (tank A), fighting against a tank that is out in the open (tank B).

Now let's say there are two possible scenarios.

Scenario 1: Tank B is in the unfavorable position and likely to lose if he doesn't take cover but he can still penetrate and damage Tank A with good aiming and/or luck.

Scenario 2: Tank B can not defend himself at all and he has to run away because Tank A is invulnerable.

 

Now which of those two scenarios sounds like whack-a-mole gameplay?

 

Scenario 1 sounds like a whack-a-mole game. Look, tank A is sticking his head up, PUNCH HIM QUICKLY!

Scenario 2 sounds like an actual tank game. Damn, tank A has the tactical advantage, I need to find another angle/position of attack.

 


Edited by fighting_falcon93, 22 June 2017 - 05:24 PM.


arthurwellsley #33 Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:29 PM

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Look what they have on super test for the bat chat;

Presently as at 9.19

Damage: 390 / 390 / 480

Pen: 259 / 330 / 53
Clip reload speed: 38.6 s
Inter-clip reload speed: 2,73 s
Clip size: 5
Accuracy: 0,36
Aimtime: 2,59 s

36 rounds can be carried

Super test

Damage: 300 / 300 / 400
Pen: 252 / 278 / 50
Clip reload speed: 34 s
Inter-clip reload speed: 2,4 s
Clip size: 6
Accuracy: 0,36
Aimtime: 2,5 s



Velvet_Underground #34 Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:35 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 22 June 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Scenario 1 sounds like a whack-a-mole game. Look, tank A is sticking his head up, PUNCH HIM QUICKLY!

Scenario 2 sounds like an actual tank game. Damn, tank A has the tactical advantage, I need to find another angle/position of attack.

Being hulldown against someone in the open already gives the former the tactical advantage, what are you brabbling on about?

You quite literally want to be invulnerable while smacking the enemies that poke out, how do you want to desribe that as anything but whack-a-mole?

Just look at this, the cat has the tactical advantage. The guy poking his finger out really needs to find another angle/position but hey, atleast this is not whack-a-mole.:facepalm:


Edited by Velvet_Underground, 22 June 2017 - 05:36 PM.


fighting_falcon93 #35 Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:43 PM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 22 June 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

You quite literally want to be invulnerable while smacking the enemies that poke out, how do you want to desribe that as anything but whack-a-mole?

 

Invurnable in that specific position from that specific angle in a tank with actual armor, yes. What's the matter, you don't know how to relocate? See, that's the problem. You want to play a game about tanks, but you're not interested the actual usuage of tank tactics and manouvers, only about pressing battle, clicking on weakspots and farming damage. Might aswell play CS:GO or something similiar :facepalm:



ExclamationMark #36 Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:44 PM

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http://www.listening...d-hd-model.html

Velvet_Underground #37 Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:57 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 22 June 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

 

Invurnable in that specific position from that specific angle in a tank with actual armor, yes.

Like the person swinging the hammer at unsuspecting moles.

 

View Postfighting_falcon93, on 22 June 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

What's the matter, you don't know how to relocate? See, that's the problem. You want to play a game about tanks, but you're not interested the actual usuage of tank tactics and manouvers

You must have missed the part where I wanted the (hulldown) tank to have an advantage, I'm merely criticizing your "a tank should be invincible if it is hulldown" and "having a weakspot on your turret renders your armor completly, 100% useless and only pussies don't sit in the line of fire 24/7 and try to manage their weakspots" bs and ofcourse your stupid usage of the whack-a-mole phrase


Edited by Velvet_Underground, 22 June 2017 - 05:58 PM.


fighting_falcon93 #38 Posted 22 June 2017 - 06:25 PM

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View PostVelvet_Underground, on 22 June 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

Like the person swinging the hammer at unsuspecting moles.

 

You really fail to see the tactical aspect of this, don't you? Yes, the hammer swinger is always invurnable, and the moles are always popping up in front of him. Should it be like that in WoT? No! Because we have a ------- 3D map that you can use to move around and actually flank your targets. I have no idea why I even need to explain the difference.

 

I have no idea if this is supposed to be sad or funny, but you're playing a tank game, and you think it's bad design that you actually have to apply tactical gameplay instead of just clicking on turrets.

 

View PostVelvet_Underground, on 22 June 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

100% useless and only pussies don't sit in the line of fire 24/7 and try to manage their weakspots

 

I already explained that part to you, but you're ignoring it because I have L2P issues, right? :rolleyes:

 


Edited by fighting_falcon93, 22 June 2017 - 06:25 PM.


lafeel #39 Posted 22 June 2017 - 06:30 PM

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Unfortunately this still leaves the poor ARL V39 and AMX AC46 hanging as the worst td's of their respective tiers..

Koove #40 Posted 22 June 2017 - 06:52 PM

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Hmm. I'm not a great fan of autoloaders. I'm sad to see my AC 48 lose its normal gun and having it replaced with an autoloader. 

Oh well. It might turn out OK.






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