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ST: French TD & MT rebalance


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brumbarr #41 Posted 22 June 2017 - 07:17 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 22 June 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

 

You really fail to see the tactical aspect of this, don't you? Yes, the hammer swinger is always invurnable, and the moles are always popping up in front of him. Should it be like that in WoT? No! Because we have a ------- 3D map that you can use to move around and actually flank your targets. I have no idea why I even need to explain the difference.

 

I have no idea if this is supposed to be sad or funny, but you're playing a tank game, and you think it's bad design that you actually have to apply tactical gameplay instead of just clicking on turrets.

 

100% useless and only pussies don't sit in the line of fire 24/7 and try to manage their weakspots

 

I already explained that part to you, but you're ignoring it because I have L2P issues, right? :rolleyes:

 

Sorry dude, but your idea of armor is completely off. 



fighting_falcon93 #42 Posted 22 June 2017 - 07:42 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 22 June 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

Sorry dude, but your idea of armor is completely off. 

 

There're already a bunch of vehicles in the game with that kind of armor; IS-7, Kranvagn, E3, T-62A, 113, Conqueror, T32, T29 etc. and they work just fine, don't they? The main problem is with the maps that limit flanking possibilites, not with the tanks lacking frontal turret weakspots, especially if they're specifically designed to fight hulldown :)

brumbarr #43 Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:21 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 22 June 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

 

There're already a bunch of vehicles in the game with that kind of armor; IS-7, Kranvagn, E3, T-62A, 113, Conqueror, T32, T29 etc. and they work just fine, don't they? The main problem is with the maps that limit flanking possibilites, not with the tanks lacking frontal turret weakspots, especially if they're specifically designed to fight hulldown :)

 

We dont need mroe of the same vehicles. Why woudl you make some the same? The changed the amx30B to make it DIFFERENT from the leo.

No thats the problem in your vision of how the game should work. But thats YOUR vision. Not WGs or ours.



tajj7 #44 Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:44 PM

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Be also nice if the STB-1 got bloody gun mantlet armour, AMX 30B gets 260mm buff but STB-1 gets penned through the front of the turret all the time which is stupid. 

brumbarr #45 Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:45 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 22 June 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

Be also nice if the STB-1 got bloody gun mantlet armour, AMX 30B gets 260mm buff but STB-1 gets penned through the front of the turret all the time which is stupid. 

 

The difference is that the AMX 30B still has 50% of the turret that is easily pennable.

The STB when bufign the matlet will nly have like 20% of it pennable.



fighting_falcon93 #46 Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:51 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 22 June 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

The changed the amx30B to make it DIFFERENT from the leo.

 

They'll still play in the same way, which is what I've been trying to point out. They throw on some useless unrealistic armor, but it will still be a worse Leopard 1. It's not going to use its turret for bouncing like a T-62A, so people will only peek when it's safe, just as with the Leopard 1. So what's the point in the changes? Wasted development time that could have been spent on balancing more important vehicles or designing new, open and better maps :)



tajj7 #47 Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:53 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 22 June 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

 

The difference is that the AMX 30B still has 50% of the turret that is easily pennable.

The STB when bufign the matlet will nly have like 20% of it pennable.

 

Yeh but 30b is faster, already has better aim time and by the sounds of it will have better gun dispersion.

 

STB-1 only really has it's turret, gun depression and DPM, and the turret is pretty terrible in reality because people can just shoot your gun. 



brumbarr #48 Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:54 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 22 June 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

 

They'll still play in the same way, which is what I've been trying to point out. They throw on some useless unrealistic armor, but it will still be a worse Leopard 1. It's not going to use its turret for bouncing like a T-62A, so people will only peek when it's safe, just as with the Leopard 1. So what's the point in the changes? Wasted development time that could have been spent on balancing more important vehicles or designing new, open and better maps :)

 

No they wotn play in the same way, First off, you can boucne something while peekign hulldown now, thats a massive difference.

Second, the gun will  basicly be an stb gun with good gun handling , btu instead has pen as a drawback.



brumbarr #49 Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:56 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 22 June 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

 

Yeh but 30b is faster, already has better aim time and by the sounds of it will have better gun dispersion.

 

STB-1 only really has it's turret, gun depression and DPM, and the turret is pretty terrible in reality because people can just shoot your gun. 

 

STB1 is good because of combination of small turret that can pull of bounces +  gun dep. It is a very small target and troll armor, it works good enough already, more armor would be overkill.

IncandescentGerbil #50 Posted 22 June 2017 - 11:04 PM

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View PostNiemandXL, on 22 June 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

Because low pen means people will spam more gold which means more money for WG.

 

Yep. The cynicism reaches new depths. 

Me, I would happily pay an extra £3/ month for my premium time, to make a game that doesn't rely on the joke that is gold ammo; for a game that is fair, and not so blatantly damn pay 2 win. Still play, but less and less, and every session you feel a little bit more of the love being sucked out of you.



tajj7 #51 Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:07 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 22 June 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

 

STB1 is good because of combination of small turret that can pull of bounces +  gun dep. It is a very small target and troll armor, it works good enough already, more armor would be overkill.

 

STB only bounces like 8% more than the 30b currently. It is the 5th worst tier 10 med for bouncing stuff, only 30b, Leopard, TVP and Bat Chat bounce less.

 

if they buff that 30b gun mantlet like that it will bounce as much if not more than the STB-1 currently does, leaving the STB-1 with what over a 30b? DPM?

 

Maybe not even that because that seems to be getting buffed, same applies to the Cent AX, it's only really got turret armour going for it over a 30b currently, after these changes the 30b will just be a faster, better gun handling Cent AX or STB-1. 

 

It's powercreep. 

 

 



brumbarr #52 Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:14 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 23 June 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

 

STB only bounces like 8% more than the 30b currently. It is the 5th worst tier 10 med for bouncing stuff, only 30b, Leopard, TVP and Bat Chat bounce less.

 

if they buff that 30b gun mantlet like that it will bounce as much if not more than the STB-1 currently does, leaving the STB-1 with what over a 30b? DPM?

 

Maybe not even that because that seems to be getting buffed, same applies to the Cent AX, it's only really got turret armour going for it over a 30b currently, after these changes the 30b will just be a faster, better gun handling Cent AX or STB-1. 

 

It's powercreep. 

 

 

 

30B will still have less acc and pen than the cent AX.

 

I checked my stats and my stb1 bounces 3 times as many shots as my 30B, quite significant.

And its also about not getting hit, when poking , the 30B is muc hmore likely to get hit than the stb1.



tajj7 #53 Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:27 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 23 June 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

 

30B will still have less acc and pen than the cent AX.

 

I checked my stats and my stb1 bounces 3 times as many shots as my 30B, quite significant.

And its also about not getting hit, when poking , the 30B is muc hmore likely to get hit than the stb1.

 

Marginally less accuracy and pen, still more accuracy than an STB-1.

 

Also depends on the gun dispersion they give it, STB-1 gun handling is poor for a tier 10 med, the 30b already more than double better turret dispersion and better aim time. If they buff the moving dispersion as well then it'll need to expose itself to fire much much less than an STB-1 will to actually hit and pen stuff, meaning the cupola becomes less problematic and misaimed shots will be bounced.

 

That is the problem with the STB-1, it's gun handling is terrible and all people have to do is shoot the gun area and they'll pen, generally you have enough time to do that because the STB cannot snap to save it's life.

 

IF, this is a big if, the AMX 30B gets that armour, then gets DPM say around the 2.9k mark, plus close to Fatton movement dispersion it'll completely power creep most of the NATO meds. 



brumbarr #54 Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:42 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 23 June 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

 

Marginally less accuracy and pen, still more accuracy than an STB-1.

 

Also depends on the gun dispersion they give it, STB-1 gun handling is poor for a tier 10 med, the 30b already more than double better turret dispersion and better aim time. If they buff the moving dispersion as well then it'll need to expose itself to fire much much less than an STB-1 will to actually hit and pen stuff, meaning the cupola becomes less problematic and misaimed shots will be bounced.

 

That is the problem with the STB-1, it's gun handling is terrible and all people have to do is shoot the gun area and they'll pen, generally you have enough time to do that because the STB cannot snap to save it's life.

 

IF, this is a big if, the AMX 30B gets that armour, then gets DPM say around the 2.9k mark, plus close to Fatton movement dispersion it'll completely power creep most of the NATO meds. 

 

Give it same rof as the patton and  0,12, 0,12, 0,8 gun dispersion, than it should be fine imo.

tajj7 #55 Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:56 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 23 June 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

 

Give it same rof as the patton and  0,12, 0,12, 0,8 gun dispersion, than it should be fine imo.

 

Still think that makes it a better Patton, as the Patton has the terrible cupola as well and then the 30b will have better turret armour and more speed.

 

This WG we are talking about, no one is grinding/playing the 30b, look what happened when they saw that no one was grinding/playing the Maus and Type 5 heavy.....

 

I reckon we'll see 3k base DPM and close to T-62A levels of dispersion. Just so it's obviously better than the STB-1, Fatton, Cent AX, Leopard 1 and people are forced to grind it. 



thestaggy #56 Posted 23 June 2017 - 11:03 AM

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How can they just turn the AMX-30 in to a hulldown tank when the real thing has paper armour?

 


Edited by thestaggy, 23 June 2017 - 11:03 AM.


brumbarr #57 Posted 23 June 2017 - 11:04 AM

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View Postthestaggy, on 23 June 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

How can they just turn the AMX-30 in to a hulldown tank when the real thing has paper armour?

 

balance?



thestaggy #58 Posted 23 June 2017 - 11:16 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 23 June 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

balance?

 

Should fix the broken blueprint/concept tanks before doing weird stuff with the real things.

 

Adding a bit of pen here and improving gun stats there are one thing but turning a paper tank in to a hulldown troll is another.


Edited by thestaggy, 23 June 2017 - 11:17 AM.


an0ther #59 Posted 23 June 2017 - 11:27 AM

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257 pen minus fall off for range on a tier 10 TD.

Better stock up on fort knoxes to pay for the prem shells!

 



tajj7 #60 Posted 23 June 2017 - 02:33 PM

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Cupola on both is being buffed to 100, which might make some of it more bouncey round he rounded parts. Same for both tanks and the 30 1er has a smaller cupola that is angled more so certainly could be a bit troll. 

 

Also roof is going from 30mm to 45mm, so only overmatchable by 150mm plus guns.

 

And gun mantlet on 30b is 300 thick at the flat parts and looks around 200 plus thick on the angled parts, which are currently like 120mm and like 155 effective, which basically means nothing will go through most of that turret. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what the dispersion/DPM changes are like but 30 1er rapidly looks like it could become the best tier 9 med. 






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