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Why are french tanks slow in water?


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brumbarr #1 Posted 22 June 2017 - 11:48 PM

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I ahve recently been playing a lot of light tanks ,amx 13 105 and WZ132A , and also from previous experience I have noticed that the french lights and some meds slow down dramaticly in shallow water. Way more than any other light tank I have played,  other light tanks go maybe 10kph below their topspeed, but the french lights go like 30ish. 

 

Does anyone know the reason why this is? I looked at the fround resistances but they are not very different from  other lights.

Is it the weight of the tank? I will do some test tomorrow to confirm my observations.



Homer_J #2 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:03 AM

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As far as I know the water is not taken into account at all apart from setting the terrain to soft.  So any slowdown should also be noticed on all soft ground.

 

The problem is you have no way of knowing which areas are hard, middle, or soft.


Edited by Homer_J, 23 June 2017 - 12:04 AM.


brumbarr #3 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:08 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 23 June 2017 - 12:03 AM, said:

As far as I know the water is not taken into account at all apart from setting the terrain to soft.  So any slowdown should also be noticed on all soft ground.

 

The problem is you have no way of knowing which areas are hard, middle, or soft.

Yes, ofcourse. That should be the case. You will noticr soft terrain,  you are much slower on there. But most soft terrain is also water, i can only think of the lakevillevalley where its not. 

So of it is the terrainressistance, i should notice the same on lakevillevalley as on shallow water, ill test tomorrow 

 

Which would still be weird btw, since tanks with same ground resistance dont experiencd the slowdown.


Edited by brumbarr, 23 June 2017 - 12:09 AM.


_Anarchistic_ #4 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:10 AM

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with regard to terrain resistances, I assume that is not randomly plucked from thin air but is a calculation on the tanks weight divided by track width to provide a ground pressure number?

 

and I assume I am wrong and that they are randomly plucked from thin air?  or at least randomly adjusted for 'game balance' purposes?



brumbarr #5 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:11 AM

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View PostStewie2ie, on 23 June 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

with regard to terrain resistances, I assume that is not randomly plucked from thin air but is a calculation on the tanks weight divided by track width to provide a ground pressure number?

 

and I assume I am wrong and that they are randomly plucked from thin air?  or at least randomly adjusted for 'game balance' purposes?

They are fictional and purely used for balancing 



Long_Range_Sniper #6 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:16 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 22 June 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

I ahve recently been playing a lot of light tanks ,amx 13 105 and WZ132A , and also from previous experience I have noticed that the french lights and some meds slow down dramaticly in shallow water. Way more than any other light tank I have played,  other light tanks go maybe 10kph below their topspeed, but the french lights go like 30ish. 

 

Does anyone know the reason why this is? I looked at the fround resistances but they are not very different from  other lights.

Is it the weight of the tank? I will do some test tomorrow to confirm my observations.

 

Just an idea but have a look at the comparisons on tanks.gg. The effective scores for the tanks in soft terrain maybe take into the power/weight ratio which would be logical. If you then translate this to moving through water which would be soft terrain, plus the water resistance then the French will be slower (and would be slower even if water is not considered).

 

gfgfgfgf.jpg



Homer_J #7 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:17 AM

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View PostStewie2ie, on 23 June 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

with regard to terrain resistances, I assume that is not randomly plucked from thin air but is a calculation on the tanks weight divided by track width to provide a ground pressure number?

 

and I assume I am wrong and that they are randomly plucked from thin air?  or at least randomly adjusted for 'game balance' purposes?

 

They are as good as randomly plucked from thin air.

 

Take T25/2 and T25 Pilot.  Supposedly the same hull.  Pilot is slightly lighter but the weight difference in no way accounts for the massive difference in terrain resistance.  Simply if the Pilot had it's correct relative terrain resistance it would be terrible to play.



Homer_J #8 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:18 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 23 June 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

 

 plus the water resistance 

 

Where do you get the idea that there is any water resistance modelled in game?



brumbarr #9 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:20 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 23 June 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

 

Just an idea but have a look at the comparisons on tanks.gg. The effective scores for the tanks in soft terrain maybe take into the power/weight ratio which would be logical. If you then translate this to moving through water which would be soft terrain, plus the water resistance then the French will be slower (and would be slower even if water is not considered).

 

gfgfgfgf.jpg

I am afeaid i dont folllow, can you explain again?



Achibot #10 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:25 AM

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I feel brumbarr's initial assertion that actual testing is needed here is correct. I'm interested in this myself, happy to donate some time to the training rooms if needed.

Homer_J #11 Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:26 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 22 June 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

I ahve recently been playing a lot of light tanks ,amx 13 105 and WZ132A , 

 

View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 23 June 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

 

Just an idea but have a look at the comparisons on tanks.gg. The effective scores for the tanks in soft terrain maybe take into the power/weight ratio which would be logical.

 

http://tanks.gg/comp...2a?t=amx-13-105

 

AMX has better power to weight and lower terrain resistance on soft ground.

 

Maybe it's something to do with inertia?  The WZ is heavier.



NiemandXL #12 Posted 23 June 2017 - 04:27 AM

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"Driving fast in le water is very dangereux!"

 

:teethhappy:



M62B #13 Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:24 AM

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That surprises me as Frogs are generally quick in water :hiding:

an0ther #14 Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:46 AM

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AMX40 should have have a speed of 60km/h, but only in water.



therealVanquisher #15 Posted 23 June 2017 - 06:22 AM

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I suggest a long series of tests, taking every french tank into deep water to verify if this is true ;)

Long_Range_Sniper #16 Posted 23 June 2017 - 07:47 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 22 June 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

I am afeaid i dont folllow, can you explain again?

 

If you look at the stats for all the light tanks then the AMX 13 105 looks like it's got the best "terrain resist (soft)" stats at 1.53. So you might think it goes best over soft ground.

 

But then when you look at the effective soft terrain stats, tanks.gg calculates that the other tanks are in fact better in comparison to the AMX 13 105. So some factor changes what looks like a good base statistic, into a worse statistic.

 

When I looked at the other stats, I wondered if one of the other stats that is worse might combine to generate an overall effective worse outcome on soft terrain for the AMX 13 105.

 

The power/weight ration for the AMX 13 105 is also poor, so pound for pound it finds its engine doesn't do as well in moving the tank around in comparison to the other tanks.

 

"If" this is modeled in the game then it might explain why a tank that has slightly better base terrain stats doesn't actually do as well when moving.

 

As I said, I don't know how far the physics engine goes in working out terrain resistance, but it does calculate the forces needed to overcome gravity, and it does have some terrain resistance stats so maybe it does a calculation for water as well. There's certainly some form of depth measure in order to calculate drowning so maybe they do a calculation as they know the cross sectional area of the tank, they know its velocity, and they know the density of water. Applying that force to the tank is just another aspect for the physics engine to calculate, just like changing the gradient of a hill. Who knows?

 

It was just an idea looking at how tanks.gg report the stats on all the tanks. Maybe a community mod, or someone with more knowledge of the physics engine can comment? You might have come up with a good question brumbarr?



CaptainThunderWalker #17 Posted 23 June 2017 - 08:20 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 23 June 2017 - 12:17 AM, said:

 

They are as good as randomly plucked from thin air.

 

Take T25/2 and T25 Pilot.  Supposedly the same hull.  Pilot is slightly lighter but the weight difference in no way accounts for the massive difference in terrain resistance.  Simply if the Pilot had it's correct relative terrain resistance it would be terrible to play.

 

What about the other way around? Give the T25/2 similar ground resistances to the Pilot? That thing stinks enough as it is.

250swb #18 Posted 23 June 2017 - 08:23 AM

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We can ignore the idea they are looking for the soap



Argedeava #19 Posted 23 June 2017 - 09:10 AM

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Water is not best friend for bicyclets with tracks. Expecially if they carry heavy guns. Wine would be more suited.

junglist443 #20 Posted 23 June 2017 - 09:30 AM

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Because reasons, there i've said it :izmena:




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