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What could I have done?


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Squirting_Elephant #1 Posted 23 June 2017 - 04:32 PM

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http://wotreplays.co...g_elephant-at_7

 

1/3rd of my team is literally dead (5 deads, viva la team) before I even get to the battlefield. I can't spot the Dicker Max. And then they bumrush me. I can hardly get a Fire for Effect before getting ganked from both sides. I'm so slow and such low alpha. The next tank unlock after this one is even worse because it will face tier 10. This game is no fun if you have to grind boring tanks to get a fun tank. Need 12-13 pen hits to get Fire for Effect. And to do exceptionally well you hardly have enough ammo (almost as if the game is telling you: you can't get 4k damage anyway in this tank).

 

When will they finally fix the lower tier balance? So many crap tanks in low tiers and so many op tanks in low tiers... Same as 6 years ago. And with slow tanks you just can not carry.

 

Also I received mark of excellence (lol?) on this tank even though I'm just mindlessly grinding it because I kinda gave up on this tank. Meaning 65%+ of the playerbase grinds it even worse than me... Or perhaps this tank is just so crap that getting marks of excellence means a damage ratio of 1.05 (or less). Meaning that likely 65%+ of all players can't even get a Fire for Effect on this tank on average. That would kinda put this tank in the garbage category.

 

Also if you meet a STRV TD, you can't really pen it, you can use HE but your damage is soooo low it only tickles and it can and WILL hit your cupolas all the time with it's accuracy. Actually most tanks can kill the AT7 just like that.


Edited by Squirting_Elephant, 23 June 2017 - 04:44 PM.


Enforcer1975 #2 Posted 23 June 2017 - 04:51 PM

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There isn't really much you can do in a slow tank on an open map. Your tier 6 heavies were "behind you" more or less. And i see the tomatoes are out in force with the new Tiger 131....and i really hate that spot from that spawn. Really hard to fight there.

_EXODUZ_ #3 Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:01 PM

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- after you bounced a shot of DMax you shouldn't have pulled back, no more other threats, he bounced, so you missed 2 shots in return.

- bad aiming on kv85, could try turret cheeks or slightly below

- after that, push forward not retreat, cause obviously that flank was lost, you had less enemies in front of you

- then you could get up on the hill, played from there for a bit, but that bot scout in the enemy team would've started the cap.

Could you win - unlikely, could you do more damage - yes.



Squirting_Elephant #4 Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:14 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 23 June 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

And i see the tomatoes are out in force with the new Tiger 131

Lol so true.

 

Thx for tips Exoduz. Will try to take it into account next time. Reason I retreated was because I felt alone and I really fear getting flanked in the AT7. Even some other turretless TD's can circle me.

I think if I had a turret (or more speed), I could have won the game. But yes I could have done more damage. I should be able to deal more damage than this.


Edited by Squirting_Elephant, 23 June 2017 - 05:16 PM.


GekkoGordon #5 Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:24 PM

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There's nothing you can do.

You either cry your way through the AT line till you reach the 183, or you free xp the line.



_EXODUZ_ #6 Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:25 PM

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View PostSquirting_Elephant, on 23 June 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

Lol so true.

 

Thx for tips Exoduz. Will try to take it into account next time. Reason I retreated was because I felt alone and I really fear getting flanked in the AT7. Even some other turretless TD's can circle me.

I think if I had a turret (or more speed), I could have won the game. But yes I could have done more damage. I should be able to deal more damage than this.

 

It's ok to retreat, the question is where to go. You had 3 tanks behind you, other tanks were 2 arties a Jpanther (turns out he was 1 shot).

BTW, I started in W-UNI as well, hehe. If you have any questions feel free to message me in-game.



Squirting_Elephant #7 Posted 24 June 2017 - 08:34 AM

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Thanks.

 

Hey at least AT15 is so much better. My 3rd game:

 

My first game I did good.

My second game I dealt 38 damage TOTAL (yes) because my team killed everything and I couldnt' find a target except for that one on low hp trying to escape my  team.

3rd game is that screenshot. My first time ever, getting hit by a deathstar. But didn't expect this. I think it was funny though

 

I am so slow that I forgot that they can shoot me 50m from spawn. Yes it takes me about 40 seconds to move to this spot, and nobody blocked me. That is how slow this tank is lol + I need gold ammo to pen some tanks even in their weak spots and even then it's RNG (seriously WG?). But double XP weekend so let's grind this tank and never look back!


Edited by Squirting_Elephant, 24 June 2017 - 08:36 AM.


Aim_Away_From_Face #8 Posted 24 June 2017 - 09:53 AM

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View PostSquirting_Elephant, on 24 June 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

Thanks.

 

Hey at least AT15 is so much better. My 3rd game:

 

My first game I did good.

My second game I dealt 38 damage TOTAL (yes) because my team killed everything and I couldnt' find a target except for that one on low hp trying to escape my  team.

3rd game is that screenshot. My first time ever, getting hit by a deathstar. But didn't expect this. I think it was funny though

 

I am so slow that I forgot that they can shoot me 50m from spawn. Yes it takes me about 40 seconds to move to this spot, and nobody blocked me. That is how slow this tank is lol + I need gold ammo to pen some tanks even in their weak spots and even then it's RNG (seriously WG?). But double XP weekend so let's grind this tank and never look back!

 

You're sideways across one of the main fire trading corridors on the map, this result was inevitable. AT15 has monstrous frontal armour but that's all. Never go across open spaces like that, use corners for hugging, the AT15 has epic gun traverse angle and you can virtually shoot around corners, 238mm(i think) armour at a steep angle with sides covered is going to bounce all day - get it on a left side corner and the cupola is hidden as well. Let them come to you.

Squirting_Elephant #9 Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:33 AM

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I'm sorry but that I disagree with that advise. This is the (one of the many) problem with AT15:

 

Yes I pushed like nuts, I played VERY aggressive and end up with 199 damage... No xp... Nothing... Nothing I can do. I just cry myself through this grind and wonder, every battle, why WG doesn't rebalance this.

 

Well yea you are kinda right but, I was at spawn still, assuming I'd be okay, tanking one hit at most. Didn't expect death star. As AT7, AT15 & Tortoise you gotta take shorter routes even if it means taking damage because you have T95 speed. You don't want to get to the battlefield and either having no more enemies or just finding yourself get bumrushed and circled (both have a high chance and are very common). But you do have T95 damage, pen, armor, etc. Also I disagree with it's frontal armor because you are an arty magnet and everyone will spam gold anyway:

(in 2nd image I got attacked from behind actually. My team lost and at 11:43 gametime, there were only 3 tanks left including me... Yeah... Teammates... My team literally lost everywhere about 5 seconds after I arrived on the battlefield... Again... Nothing I can do... Tank is too slow. Armor? What armor?

 

Also had a match with T34's and Sorp G spamming gold at me. Yup they just pen me frontally and their alpha is so horrible to me that I die in 3, maybe 4 shots.

Arty LOVES you even more than some Jap heavies because you can't relocate, you can't dodge anything, you can't hide fast enough, you can't move forwards/backwards. They hit often, and they also often seem to hit for 400-500 damage per arty shell (I think they pen me). Then comes the BIG cupola that sticks out. So when enemy tanks have only their turret sticking out and you as well, you lose. If you get too close, you lose. If they have good aim like STRV TD, you ALWAYS lose, if they have insane alpha, you lose, if they perm-track you, you lose, if they circle you, you lose, if they just run away from you then you do not lose but you got no xp either, if you are driving up a hill you lose (cupola sticks out before you can even aim over the hill, then comes the meta problem and etc.

Ohyeah and the MASSIVE weakspot in frontal armor as well (look it up on tanks gg). Even tier 6's can pen me in center frontal armor, which is like 30% of my tank. So no it has no armor, it's armor only works against bots.

 

These tanks are so horribly and horribly and horribly broken (as in bad).

 

 

P.S.

I think I met a famous player (Ohare). I was facetanking & scouting for him and he took out the enemy STRV and carried in general. Good deal! But here same problem, he got 4 free kills that I could not take due to my lack of mobility:

 

The only reason I really get any damage dished out in this tank:

- I farm bad players

- Many players just think they can win a DPM fight vs AT15 including some unarmored tier 10 just because they have gold ammo. Well, they can't. My DPM is the only good thing I have and if you fight me in a DPM fight without cover, I will win.

- People with terrible aim-guns like DERP guns having a pot-shoot-fight with me across the map. Of course I win.

- Heavy tank thinks it can solo circle me. I perma track it and kill it. Happens quite often at start of bumrush.

But yeah I rely on idiots to get xp. This tank... horrible.


Edited by Squirting_Elephant, 24 June 2017 - 10:57 AM.


Squirting_Elephant #10 Posted 24 June 2017 - 11:11 AM

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BC25T penning me in frontal armor twice. And that is a LIGHT TANK penning me frontally! Don't even get me started about other tier 10's:

 

I can't pen many back not even with gold ammo:

Disclaimer: Mausschen was facing me straight on so I had nearly perfect angle. But one shot missed (hit his upper plate, see green dots) and the other shot on his lower plate was with gold ammo, but my gold ammo can roll as low as 193.5 pen... Yeah... It's a casino. He eventually decided to completely ignore me. First pray gunner hits, then pray for RNG roll and pay 4400 credits per shot. Which I'm FORCED to pay.

Also arty hit me for 421 damage again even though I only had a tiny bit of my tank sticking out.

 

And this is what happens when Tier10 (and some T8) shoots gold ammo at me and takes away half my hp in one shot:

Yes I got penned in the mantlet! Please don't tell me that I have armor. I DON'T!

 

Yes why do my bullets cost 4400 credits per bullet for 220ish alpha? If I have a tank with 450 alpha they also cost about 4400-4800 credits.. But they effectively pay half the price and get more pen! What is this? More hidden nerf for these turretless TD's? I mean someone in the past 4 years must have figured out that these tanks are garbage and buffed them no? Apparently not. Also why do I have less pen than most heavies of my tier? And less alpha?

 

These screenies are just from my last 3 games btw. Happens all the time almost every game.


Edited by Squirting_Elephant, 24 June 2017 - 11:33 AM.


Aim_Away_From_Face #11 Posted 24 June 2017 - 11:30 AM

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It's you then. Whilst I haven't bought the AT15 yet, I have the AT15A which is exactly the same but with a worse gun and is tier 7 and I still invariably get decent results with it. 
Almost every complaint you have is vs tier 9 and 10 vehicles (Batchat is a medium by the way, not a light). the AT is somewhat underpowered so higher tiers will hurt you easily but it can be mitigated. I've sat on corners facing off against T-10's and ST-I's bouncing reliably, that centre weaspot moves with the gun mantlet, don't keep aiming directly at enemies when reloading similar to sidescraping with a turret. 

Think early about where to go, you can never really do anything when the enemy gets steamrolled but that's the price of slow vehicles. Work ridges, you have 10 degrees of depression and can keep cupola almost completely hidden most of the time. There's all sorts of things.

 

I get the impression you're play style or play preference isn't suited to slow tanks and that the only reason you're grinding this line is to get a death star. You'd probably do better going for a Jaegeroo via the JPII instead of Ferdi.



Squirting_Elephant #12 Posted 24 June 2017 - 11:55 AM

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Well the AT 15 indeed is not suitable to fight T9-10. It should be a tier 7. Ah yes the BCT is a medium then but it looks like a light, so cute, so tiny, so fast :P.

In some of those images I still ended up dealing between 1000 and 1800 damage. That could as decent. But I can't get reliable Fire for Effects and I can't get reliably 2k+ damage dealt. But I'm a well above average player according to marks of excellence and I can't even get reliable Fire for Effects. Wish we could see global tank stats.

 

No the center weakspot does NOT move with the gun mantlet. It's a huge spot. Let me color it for you, black spots being spots that T7+ can pen , and the white spots that T8+ can pen  and the red areas can be penned by most T9-10 and some T8 (or almost all if they gold ammo) and the purple spot get's penned by tier10 with insane pen:

Basically a Scorp G for example can pen you EVERYWHERE (except for the mantlet, which has a ~45% chance) and it does not really care about your angling.

Now angling the tank really far gives you like +20-25 armor and then you can't even shoot them anymore... That is kinda of a joke to me. Even worse if I'm forced to shoot gold ammo and can't pen them back. Yes it's mostly against T9+ but with new MM, about 50% of the games is vs tier 10.

 

So if you can reliably bounce T10 tanks, then they suck. I will pen you any day with a lot of my Tier 8's even (T34, Scorp G, Lowe, etc.) and just spam gold at you. Scorp G is my favorite tank atm.

 

Yes you  gotta know exactly what ridges to use. The AT7 for example couldn't use any ridge because of extremely poor gun depression. AT15 is better regarding that but still fails it on many ridges. + arty is waiting for me to peak over ridge to take away 1/3rd of my hp. But if there is no arty, and you know what ridge to use, and if there is no T8+  waiting with gold ammo, then yes it will work.

 

My playstyle: Get as much damage dealt as possible, regardless of how it's done. Which usually means getting a bit agressive and going into city fights instead of camping/sniping and hoping your team loses.


Edited by Squirting_Elephant, 24 June 2017 - 12:02 PM.


Pantzer #13 Posted 24 June 2017 - 12:09 PM

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Huh seems like I am one of the few that thought the Tortoise line is one of the best TD lines. Did super good in those.

Squirting_Elephant #14 Posted 24 June 2017 - 12:12 PM

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My next game:

OMG a Tier7 IS penning me in mantlet and also rolling 362 damage... Seriously? WG wtf is this? Where is my armor? Not even gold ammo.

 

I just found out there are 2 more weak spots.. The gun mantlet has only 110 EFFECTIVE armor there... Oh wow... Really? My tier 4 Hetzer has more armor there (yes look it up it does)...


Edited by Squirting_Elephant, 24 June 2017 - 12:21 PM.


Enforcer1975 #15 Posted 24 June 2017 - 12:24 PM

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I think you should just stop playing for today and maybe skip the weekend too. You are at the point where you are an attention whore and crying about every hit you recieved.

You shouldn't expect or rely on armor on a tank to work just because you charge into the enemy the way you did in your pics. The AT series is especially bad for those yolo tactics because it's not that hard to counter them. Also i see your recents have dropped significantly compared to your overall. Maybe play a tier or tank that suits your playstyle because losing 4% wr over 400 games is a big sign that you are not in your comfort zone.


 


Edited by Enforcer1975, 24 June 2017 - 12:25 PM.


Nazgarth #16 Posted 24 June 2017 - 12:32 PM

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The AT series TDs are a relic of how the game used to be balanced, you get good armour riddled with large weakspots.

 

Not that even the strong parts are that effective against higher tiers or even equal tier TDs.


 

Players who know how to aim will shred you, and baddies who don't have a good chance of hitting a weakspot because there are so many on the AT series TDs



Squirting_Elephant #17 Posted 24 June 2017 - 12:37 PM

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@Enforcer1975

True for most shots, That last screenshot though was one where I was sniping... He shot me across the field in the mantlet and penned. Shortly after they started bumrushing me because it was that time already (3-4 min into game). Also some of those pics were literally in or near spawn at start of game where we got rushed really hard like that BCT rushing our spawn straight away and shooting me at the spawn. Nothing you can do really.

Same imbalance as starting in campinovka and enemy scout rushes you and you get 3 arty through your roof. Nothing you can do about it, just bad game design for slow tanks.

 

"You shouldn't expect or rely on armor on a tank to work just because you charge into the enemy the way you did in your pics."

You should never rely on armor really. At least not in the AT series. Not even when sniping because like I said, most T8 will pen you anyway, anywhere if they gold ammo you. Some exceptions like Type4, Maus, etc. sure but 99% of tanks are paper now. I don't get it why some people think angling works with these tanks because it doesn't. Armor too low.

 

My winrate and stats always significantly drop when I grind tanks due to stock guns, crap crew, often no modules, unbalanced garbage like AT-series, etc. I actually expected it to drop more than 4% but that is probably because I only played ~120 games in AT series so far (thanks to xp weekend and premium acc and whatnot). But the AT series is a new low for me yes. But I gotta grind them. No choice. It's how the game works.

 

Haven't found anyone though who can tell me how to play these good. Even people with insane WN8 tell me this tank line sucks, people in my guild same story, friends same story. Only here on the forums some people tell me they are good. I checked their stats, they actually did play them well... I dunno how...

 

They are probably a relic of the past.


Edited by Squirting_Elephant, 24 June 2017 - 01:10 PM.


_EXODUZ_ #18 Posted 24 June 2017 - 01:11 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 24 June 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

You are at the point where you are an attention whore and crying about every hit you recieved.

 

 

 

Quite blunt, but has some truth behind it. You're not using a right approach to playing/learning the game. It's just a tank you grind, however it sounds like you're planning to marry it or something. :girl:

If you need to, ask about good map positions, post replays, etc - do so. Make it constructive, in other words.



_EXODUZ_ #19 Posted 24 June 2017 - 01:25 PM

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View PostSquirting_Elephant, on 24 June 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

 

Haven't found anyone though who can tell me how to play these good. Even people with insane WN8 tell me this tank line sucks, people in my guild same story, friends same story. Only here on the forums some people tell me they are good. I checked their stats, they actually did play them well... I dunno how...

 

 

 

Don't look for special AT line secrets, just learn the concept of playing a slow tank.

For that:

- You need to learn to read team composition and how it will play out (what the enemy tanks will do, where are they going to be, etc.).

- Assess initial deployment of your team mates (lemming train push, passive scouts, etc.).

- Overall game plan (i.e. help heavies, go back defend).

- Time of retreat. Work on your survivability.

- Lines of fire (where you can get shot from).

- Map positions and terrain that works in your favor.

 



Squirting_Elephant #20 Posted 24 June 2017 - 01:29 PM

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Well I expect all tanks on all tiers to be relatively well balanced for their tier after 6 years... Apparently WG had other concerns during those years. And yes it annoys me when I need to grind them to get to the tank I really want.

 

Well I don't think anyone is gonna draw me all good map positions for the maps. But I could post more replays yes.

 

There is no "Time of retreat". Once you go with 20km/h tanks, you go deep. No turning back 99% of the time. But I need to play more games in general to learn the terrain and estimate what will play out how and where. I can't just relocate like Scorp G if things turn out to be different with slow (and turretless) tanks. No room for error.

 

Actually, where should I go on Lakeville with these tanks? One map would be doable. Assuming you aim for 2k damage.


Edited by Squirting_Elephant, 24 June 2017 - 01:33 PM.





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