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Broken Experience System

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ThirtyMileSniper #1 Posted 02 July 2017 - 09:48 AM

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I play low tiers, believe it or not I am trying to get good at the game before inflicting myself on higher tier games. 

 

I have notice in the past 2 months that the player standard at low tier has nosedived, probably due to some of the events dragging in new blood.

 

After a match i like to check out how players helped the game and I keep seeing this trend. 

Players who contribute nothing to the team other than soaking up shells are getting more XP than players who are spotting or actually causing damage. How messed up is that?

 

I have attached a screendump to illustrate a typical instance. The Marder 38t caused 0 damage, 0 spotting and did not even hit an enemy tank. Yet they get more XP than SU85B who at least hit and damaged a tank.

 

SU fires 2 hits 1 and penetrates 1. Call that 50% accuracy.

Marder fires 9 hits 0, Call that 0 Accuracy. But gets more XP. Looks like we are buying XP by putting shells downrange.

 

I always thought that players cooking off ammo at match start with nothing to shoot were fools but it looks like they are pretty savvy if they expect to get 1 shot. Pretty expensive way to play mind.

 

Added SU85b showing battle stat.

Attached Files

  • Attached File   Broken XP system.png   336.17K
  • Attached File   Broken XP system SU.png   318.78K

Edited by ThirtyMileSniper, 02 July 2017 - 10:58 AM.


jabster #2 Posted 02 July 2017 - 09:50 AM

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Could just be me but I don't see a screen shot?

ThirtyMileSniper #3 Posted 02 July 2017 - 09:54 AM

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View Postjabster, on 02 July 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

Could just be me but I don't see a screen shot?

 

Dammit, I added as attachment.

 

Will add in a minute.



Rekerino #4 Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:08 AM

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This whole game is broken man, not just  xp system :) GJ to you trying to learn the game before buying a crapton of premium tanks and fuckin' up the mm 

Edited by Rekerino, 02 July 2017 - 10:09 AM.


Emeraldweed #5 Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:11 AM

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expirienced earned is highly affected to whom the dmg was done, i'e if the SU did that dmg to top tier tank in battle  and the marder on the lowest one then it's justified

AliceUnchained #6 Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:31 AM

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Fits with my suspicion that firing rounds does indeed reward some XP. But let's wait for the screen shot first...

 

Edit: I don't think you understand what cooking off ammo means... Those firing at the start most certainly do not have that going.


Edited by AliceUnchained, 02 July 2017 - 10:59 AM.


ThirtyMileSniper #7 Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:44 AM

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View PostEmeraldweed, on 02 July 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

expirienced earned is highly affected to whom the dmg was done, i'e if the SU did that dmg to top tier tank in battle  and the marder on the lowest one then it's justified

 

The Marder did no damage or assistance.

ThirtyMileSniper #8 Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:44 AM

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View Postjabster, on 02 July 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

Could just be me but I don't see a screen shot?

 

Screenshot added.

jabster #9 Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:52 AM

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View PostThirtyMileSniper, on 02 July 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

 

Screenshot added.

 

Have you got the one of the SU-85B as I'm thinking maybe team damage?

ThirtyMileSniper #10 Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:58 AM

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View Postjabster, on 02 July 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

 

Have you got the one of the SU-85B as I'm thinking maybe team damage?

 

Yeah, No team damage on the SU. Adding to OP. 

AliceUnchained #11 Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:06 AM

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Typical misconception: Just because something does not do what you want it, expect it to do, does not mean it's broken. So please don't mix up the two. 

 

Both players contributed so little to the game, such that the bits of XP awarded for firing rounds actually pushed the Marder 38t past the SU-85b in XP. You can debate, argue whether or not awarding XP for merely firing is a good thing. But calling this broken just shows your lack of understand of the system in the first place.



ThirtyMileSniper #12 Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:18 AM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 02 July 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

Typical misconception: Just because something does not do what you want it, expect it to do, does not mean it's broken. So please don't mix up the two. 

 

Both players contributed so little to the game, such that the bits of XP awarded for firing rounds actually pushed the Marder 38t past the SU-85b in XP. You can debate, argue whether or not awarding XP for merely firing is a good thing. But calling this broken just shows your lack of understand of the system in the first place.

 

Thats a hell of a white night stance there. How can contributing 0 effect to a match win justify greater reward than damaging the enemy team. 

 

If this isn't broken then the player in a match with base tank facing 2 tiers higher might as well go to a corner, blow out their rounds and be confident of doing better than the poor sucker who tried to play be going up and scouting or supporting the team.

 

Don't get me wrong, the Marder player was trying. They got 1 shot by an Oi next to me. I just can't get my head around them doing better than the SU.

 

Also if I am misunderstanding this mechanic, explain its benefit. Does it help Wargamings profits? Doubt it, can't see the marder blowing gold ammo.  You are right, I lack understanding of why this is a thing. With your 35k battles please enlighten me.



jabster #13 Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:20 AM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 02 July 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

Typical misconception: Just because something does not do what you want it, expect it to do, does not mean it's broken. So please don't mix up the two. 

 

Both players contributed so little to the game, such that the bits of XP awarded for firing rounds actually pushed the Marder 38t past the SU-85b in XP. You can debate, argue whether or not awarding XP for merely firing is a good thing. But calling this broken just shows your lack of understand of the system in the first place.

 

As I've said before the problem is that the different factors that make up what you get you get exp. are pretty badly understood so the best you can say is that it could be explained by it not that's the reason.



AliceUnchained #14 Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:34 AM

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View PostThirtyMileSniper, on 02 July 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

Thats a hell of a white night stance there. How can contributing 0 effect to a match win justify greater reward than damaging the enemy team. 

 

If this isn't broken then the player in a match with base tank facing 2 tiers higher might as well go to a corner, blow out their rounds and be confident of doing better than the poor sucker who tried to play be going up and scouting or supporting the team.

 

Don't get me wrong, the Marder player was trying. They got 1 shot by an Oi next to me. I just can't get my head around them doing better than the SU.

 

Also if I am misunderstanding this mechanic, explain its benefit. Does it help Wargamings profits? Doubt it, can't see the marder blowing gold ammo.  You are right, I lack understanding of why this is a thing. With your 35k battles please enlighten me.

 

So moving on to the next bit of nonsense... White knight stance? Go back to your Romantic novels please. 

 

Yet again you utterly fail to understand the difference between working as intended, and working as it should according to you. Have I said anything about whether or not this is justified, or how it should be? No? Learn to read, to comprehend. You can debate this is not how it should be, but calling it broken even when it very well might do exactly what Wargaming intended it to do is plain silly. But for some reason the likes of you seem to think that how you feel things should be done, as the one and only right way and thus anything deviating from that is wrong, broken, etc.

 

If we'd observe a difference of several hundreds in XP, I could see some basis for complaints here. But we're talking about 2 players who contributed next to nothing and both got very little for it, and the difference is a mere 28 XP.

 

View Postjabster, on 02 July 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

As I've said before the problem is that the different factors that make up what you get you get exp. are pretty badly understood so the best you can say is that it could be explained by it not that's the reason.

 

And as I've said before, I've seen results suggesting that merely firing rounds does in fact award (some) XP. The only other difference we can observe here, is distance traveled.  What is then left, is vehicle specific XP modifiers/multipliers.



jabster #15 Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:42 AM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 02 July 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

And as I've said before, I've seen results suggesting that merely firing rounds does in fact award (some) XP. The only other difference we can observe here, is distance traveled.  What is then left, is vehicle specific XP modifiers/multipliers.

 

Suggesting is not the same as does surely neither is the stats we can see mean it's because of one them. I'm surprised to be honest as I thought you of all people would want a bit more evidence than this before claiming something as fact.



AliceUnchained #16 Posted 02 July 2017 - 12:16 PM

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View Postjabster, on 02 July 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

 

Suggesting is not the same as does surely neither is the stats we can see mean it's because of one them. I'm surprised to be honest as I thought you of all people would want a bit more evidence than this before claiming something as fact.

 

And in post #6 I already clearly mentioned it's a suspicion, now did I not? I did not see a need to repeat once again, that it is just a (strong) suspicion, in post # 11, as they're in such short succession of one another and still on the same page in the same thread. But the mistake is all mine, thinking that people will actually read and connect posts from the same forum user in the same thread.

 

Furthermore, I have collected a ton of screen shots in the past which pointed in that direction already (and which I brought up before in a different thread in a response directly at you, remember?). So it's not just this situation. Now just to be clear, not claiming it as fact. But I do think it's reasonable to assume that at least part of the extra XP can be explained with it. Far more reasonable than to assume it's due to some statistic or action not measured, and not visible to players. Specific vehicle multipliers could be in effect, but as they're both standard Tier IV TD's (just from different nations) I expect them to have the same multiplier.



Jigabachi #17 Posted 02 July 2017 - 12:25 PM

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They both didn't do anything and got rewarded with team XP and their own multipliers. I don't really see the problem.
I expected something else when I clicked this thread and the example you showed does NOT match the point you were trying to make...

Edited by Jigabachi, 02 July 2017 - 12:27 PM.


Homer_J #18 Posted 02 July 2017 - 01:36 PM

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View PostThirtyMileSniper, on 02 July 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

 But gets more XP. 

 

One gets next to nothing, the other gets next to next to nothing.  They both did very little.  

 

If you are going to nitpick over 20 exp then you are going to have a very tedious time in this game.


Edited by Homer_J, 02 July 2017 - 01:37 PM.


jabster #19 Posted 02 July 2017 - 01:47 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 02 July 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

 

And in post #6 I already clearly mentioned it's a suspicion, now did I not? I did not see a need to repeat once again, that it is just a (strong) suspicion, in post # 11, as they're in such short succession of one another and still on the same page in the same thread. But the mistake is all mine, thinking that people will actually read and connect posts from the same forum user in the same thread.

 

Furthermore, I have collected a ton of screen shots in the past which pointed in that direction already (and which I brought up before in a different thread in a response directly at you, remember?). So it's not just this situation. Now just to be clear, not claiming it as fact. But I do think it's reasonable to assume that at least part of the extra XP can be explained with it. Far more reasonable than to assume it's due to some statistic or action not measured, and not visible to players. Specific vehicle multipliers could be in effect, but as they're both standard Tier IV TD's (just from different nations) I expect them to have the same multiplier.

 

The problem is, as I've said before, there are so many unknowns it just not a reasonable assumption especially as your evidence consists of I've got some screenshots but nothing more. Where's you analysis for the data as I don't see anything of note?

 



Homer_J #20 Posted 02 July 2017 - 01:53 PM

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View Postjabster, on 02 July 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

 

Where's you analysis for the data as I don't see anything of note?

 

 

Marder drove further. :child:






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