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Tier 10 lights - the opposite of the Maus.


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tajj7 #1 Posted 02 July 2017 - 09:39 PM

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Maus is buffing players win rates by like 4-5%, well tier 10 lights nerf player win rates by like 3-4%.

 

It's got to the point where you are better off having a 48% er in a Maus than a 56% WR player in Rhm. Pzw -

 

Posted Image

 

Quite evidently they all need a substantial buff. 



veso_vn #2 Posted 02 July 2017 - 09:52 PM

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I think lights can be easy fix just increase  the view range to 470m :) and tadam you have a good scouts :). Also new big maps tier 10 should play only on huge maps not small ones

Quintuss #3 Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:17 PM

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No surprise really - how do you expect tanks that cannot really share HP or deal damage to win battles?

 

On a few maps a LT can spot or at least use it's camo....but typically for 1 such map you get 5 where the LT is nearly dead weight. While i am researching the T10s for the technical engeeer ribbon i'll be glad when the day comes to sell the POS.



brumbarr #4 Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:01 PM

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View Postveso_vn, on 02 July 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

I think lights can be easy fix just increase  the view range to 470m :) and tadam you have a good scouts :). Also new big maps tier 10 should play only on huge maps not small ones

 

LT dont need to be better scouts, there is no need for scouts in Tier10 games, and not to mention increasing the VR too much will lead to people getting spotted from max range and thats not good for the game.

LTs need to be better fighters, they dont need the pen or alpha of meds but they need more dpm.



WindSplitter1 #5 Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:09 PM

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This is quite sad. Many were in high spirits with regards the new lights but most of the new features were cruelly taken away.

 

Even despite the first reply on those threads being to "revert the stats of all light tanks to CT 1".

 

I don't mind the accuracy being junk. Others stated that lights shouldn't be the primary damage dealers, which I agree to some extent but lacking the view range and in some cases, a huge mobility nerf, is blatantly idiotic IMO.

 

And of course, the Bulldog. Less shells to load and same reload when it's counterpart a tier below does get away much better. Less DPM than a LOLtraktor. Heh.

 

Jokes aside, it's still possible to rebalance lights, even if they get the view range just right.



NiemandXL #6 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:16 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 03 July 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

 

LTs need to be better fighters, they dont need the pen or alpha of meds but they need more dpm.

 

DPM is not good for much when you can not hit anything half of the time. They all need massive accuracy buffs. IS-3 and IS-7 are more accurate than most light tanks at the moment which is ridiculous. Wargaming's balancing at it's best I guess.

 

But at least the Maus has a laser cannon that can snapshot without aiming at ranges most light tanks have trouble hitting fully aimed shots^^



DeltaOperator #7 Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:10 AM

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Maus needs its laser cannon so it can snapshot effectively without aiming for ages while everyone and their mother spam 330mm HEAT at you.

 

And yeah TX Light Tanks are useless. Not that i care about it anyway, i did not want or need TX Light Tanks in the first place. There is enough Need for Speed in the game as it is.



brumbarr #8 Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:21 AM

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View PostNiemandXL, on 03 July 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

 

DPM is not good for much when you can not hit anything half of the time. They all need massive accuracy buffs. IS-3 and IS-7 are more accurate than most light tanks at the moment which is ridiculous. Wargaming's balancing at it's best I guess.

 

But at least the Maus has a laser cannon that can snapshot without aiming at ranges most light tanks have trouble hitting fully aimed shots^^

 

yeah, I forgot about the accuracy, I love it when my gun with less dpm also misses half it shots. 0,4 acc on a tank that relies on camo thus needs to stay at range compared to 0,38 for a tank that engages at 100m or less is just stupid.



tajj7 #9 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:07 AM

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Yeh the accuracy is terrible, especially as it's combined with lower pen as well so a high percentage of your shots just miss and then another lot just bounce, add in the DPM is really low anyway the effective DPM of these tanks is like tier 4 levels.

 

I've had games where I am 100% sure I would have 6k plus damage with a med, that were 3k with the lights, just purely because of the accuracy. I know they don't want lights red line sniping but having crap accuracy is just not practical on most maps.

 

Range is their survivability, you wouldn't expect tier 8 mediums to be fighting close in a tier 10 game, yet the tier 10 lights have tier 8 levels of HP but apparently we are supposed to brawl with Maus and TYpe 5s at close range that can take almost half our HP in one shot. 

 

When you are playing maps like Westfield, Prohk, Redshire, Erlenberg your engagement ranges are medium to long, even if you are out front spotting, yet the light tanks are completely hampered by this.

 

IMO they need HP buffs up to 1700 - 1800 (which is bottom end of tier 10 mediums), DPMs up to like 2.5-2.7k, which is tier 9 medium DPM and their accuracy brought down to at least 0.35 - 0.36 for most of them (Rhm. then can have like 0.3). I'd also reckon their view ranges all need to go up by 10m, so the 13-105 and T-100 at least have 400m, WZ has 410 and then the Rhm/Sheridan have 430. 

 

I was watching QB play the WZ yesterday and he said the lights only feel competitive when they are in 3-5-7 games, because in those they are mainly fighting tier 8s, which makes sense because aside alpha they have tier 8 HP, tier 8 view range and tier 8 DPM. 


Edited by tajj7, 03 July 2017 - 11:08 AM.


brumbarr #10 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:38 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 03 July 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Yeh the accuracy is terrible, especially as it's combined with lower pen as well so a high percentage of your shots just miss and then another lot just bounce, add in the DPM is really low anyway the effective DPM of these tanks is like tier 4 levels.

 

I've had games where I am 100% sure I would have 6k plus damage with a med, that were 3k with the lights, just purely because of the accuracy. I know they don't want lights red line sniping but having crap accuracy is just not practical on most maps.

 

Range is their survivability, you wouldn't expect tier 8 mediums to be fighting close in a tier 10 game, yet the tier 10 lights have tier 8 levels of HP but apparently we are supposed to brawl with Maus and TYpe 5s at close range that can take almost half our HP in one shot. 

 

When you are playing maps like Westfield, Prohk, Redshire, Erlenberg your engagement ranges are medium to long, even if you are out front spotting, yet the light tanks are completely hampered by this.

 

IMO they need HP buffs up to 1700 - 1800 (which is bottom end of tier 10 mediums), DPMs up to like 2.5-2.7k, which is tier 9 medium DPM and their accuracy brought down to at least 0.35 - 0.36 for most of them (Rhm. then can have like 0.3). I'd also reckon their view ranges all need to go up by 10m, so the 13-105 and T-100 at least have 400m, WZ has 410 and then the Rhm/Sheridan have 430. 

 

I was watching QB play the WZ yesterday and he said the lights only feel competitive when they are in 3-5-7 games, because in those they are mainly fighting tier 8s, which makes sense because aside alpha they have tier 8 HP, tier 8 view range and tier 8 DPM. 

 

They basicly need to have the fighting power of a tier9 med.

Kozzy #11 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:36 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 03 July 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

 

They basicly need to have the fighting power of a tier9 med.

 

Then why not play a T9 med?  After these proposed changes, what defines the LT?  I do agree that lights are in a bad place, the stats don't lie but I feel making them just smaller mediums is kind of missing the point?  

 

How about: view ranges for all tanks (apart from lights) be nerfed heavily, lights' DPM increased but not have them too accurate or they will just be faster TDs.  Increase their camo (apart from when firing) and mobility.  This would make them have a defined role of controlling vision for the team early game and also having great circle-jerking ability, heavy/TD harassment mid to late game.



lonigus #12 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:37 PM

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They are competitive on like 4 maps. Everywhere else the mediums do everything better. They should be like tier 9 mediums when it comes to DPM and HPs.

NiemandXL #13 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:43 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 03 July 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

 

Then why not play a T9 med?  After these proposed changes, what defines the LT?  I do agree that lights are in a bad place, the stats don't lie but I feel making them just smaller mediums is kind of missing the point?  

 

How about: view ranges for all tanks (apart from lights) be nerfed heavily, lights' DPM increased but not have them too accurate or they will just be faster TDs.  Increase their camo (apart from when firing) and mobility.  This would make them have a defined role of controlling vision for the team early game and also having great circle-jerking ability, heavy/TD harassment mid to late game.

 

The problem with that is that on at least half the maps view range and camo vales are mostly useless. Lights need to be able to do something on all those maps that do not allow for meaningful spotting or otherwise they will always remain bad vehicles with terrible global win rates.

ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:43 PM

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View PostDeltaOperator, on 03 July 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

Maus needs its laser cannon so it can snapshot effectively without aiming for ages while everyone and their mother spam 330mm HEAT at you.

 

And yeah TX Light Tanks are useless. Not that i care about it anyway, i did not want or need TX Light Tanks in the first place. There is enough Need for Speed in the game as it is.

 

Maus is not needed, I don't want overpowered behemoths that wreck everything else in the first place.



brumbarr #15 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:49 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 03 July 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

 

Then why not play a T9 med?  After these proposed changes, what defines the LT?  I do agree that lights are in a bad place, the stats don't lie but I feel making them just smaller mediums is kind of missing the point?  

 

How about: view ranges for all tanks (apart from lights) be nerfed heavily, lights' DPM increased but not have them too accurate or they will just be faster TDs.  Increase their camo (apart from when firing) and mobility.  This would make them have a defined role of controlling vision for the team early game and also having great circle-jerking ability, heavy/TD harassment mid to late game.

 

A LT has camo and speed, which allows for much different cameplay.

brumbarr #16 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:51 PM

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Btw, Just was in a 1vs7 in my wz1321 on ell halluf. I killed 5 of them...

then I ran out of ammo...

 

Nice one WG.



Thejagdpanther #17 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:51 PM

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View Postveso_vn, on 02 July 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

I think lights can be easy fix just increase  the view range to 470m :)

 

or finally nerf the viewrange of tx meds... batchat is still the best spotter at tier 10

Edited by Thejagdpanther, 03 July 2017 - 12:52 PM.


leggasiini #18 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:55 PM

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Honestly, instead of buffing view ranges of LTs, they should nerf view ranges of mediums (and heavies). I guess T-100 and 13 105 should be buffed to 400, WZ-132-1 to 410, and keep the two others at 420. Nerf medium view range to 380-390 and HT to 370-380. LT view range on sandbox was broken (it didnt make them OP but broken), and it would be bad for the game especially with the maps we have now. 420m view range is absolutely maximum IMO.

 

Their DPM needs to be upped (marginally worse than MTs but still good), and HP probably by 100 (but should be lower than MTs) among with that. Ammo capacity should be upped a bit, too. 

 

There is no reason to keep terrible accuracy on them. Maybe bit worse than MTs, but should be still below 0.40 for all of them (expect sheridan derp for obvious reasons). Among with that, Rhm and 13 105 needs better gun handling and T-100 needs more useful premium ammo.


Edited by leggasiini, 03 July 2017 - 12:58 PM.


Soifon99 #19 Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:27 PM

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View PostThejagdpanther, on 03 July 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

 

or finally nerf the viewrange of tx meds... batchat is still the best spotter at tier 10

 

the can't just nerf the vr of the tier x meds.. they need to change the entire spotting system of the game then..  and that won't happen.. (re balance all tiers)

brumbarr #20 Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:29 PM

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View PostSoifon99, on 03 July 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

 

the can't just nerf the vr of the tier x meds.. they need to change the entire spotting system of the game then..  and that won't happen.. (re balance all tiers)

 

euhm no? Why cant you do that? Just reduce MT and HT VR by 20m accros the board. 




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