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HE seriously needs to stop not doing any damage


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TheTankGarage #1 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:09 AM

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I just almost lost a game because I couldn't get through a JPanther II with HE shells. Just kept bouncing him until he got lucky and hit me. And it's not the only time, I'd say the only time HE does damage is when you have an angle on a tank that normal ammo will probably also do damage, it's completely useless.

Pablo_Amenable #2 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:10 AM

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What tank you were in?

Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #3 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:16 AM

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View PostPablo_Amenable, on 03 July 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

What tank you were in?

I guess not a derp tank :)



NiemandXL #4 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:17 AM

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It would probably be a good idea to have HE always do at least a minimum amount of damage. Let's say 10% or 15% for example. Because as it stands HE is pretty much useless for low caliber cannons. Doing always at least some damage would make HE a more viable ammo choice. Because all those "hit tracks or gun and do zero damage shots" basically mean it's almost never worth to load HE.

Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #5 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:19 AM

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View PostNiemandXL, on 03 July 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

It would probably be a good idea to have HE always do at least a minimum amount of damage. Let's say 10% or 15% for example. Because as it stands HE is pretty much useless for low caliber cannons. Doing always at least some damage would make HE a more viable ammo choice. Because all those "hit tracks or gun and do zero damage shots" basically mean it's almost never worth to load HE.

 

Maybe also minor stuns?

HassenderZerhacker #6 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:21 AM

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View PostNiemandXL, on 03 July 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

It would probably be a good idea to have HE always do at least a minimum amount of damage. Let's say 10% or 15% for example. Because as it stands HE is pretty much useless for low caliber cannons. Doing always at least some damage would make HE a more viable ammo choice. Because all those "hit tracks or gun and do zero damage shots" basically mean it's almost never worth to load HE.

 

probably.

yet on the other side of the spectrum, the dreaded type 4 and type 5 always do a shitload of damage with their derp guns, and arty still does way too much damage because it became so precise.

 

I would vote for all of the following:

- HE should do less maximum damage, especially arty

- spall liners should be much more effective, both against damage and stun

- HE should do 10% minimum damage



imendars #7 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:22 AM

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View PostTheTankGarage, on 03 July 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

I just almost lost a game because I couldn't get through a JPanther II with HE shells. Just kept bouncing him until he got lucky and hit me. And it's not the only time, I'd say the only time HE does damage is when you have an angle on a tank that normal ammo will probably also do damage, it's completely useless.

 

Get type 5, learn litle positioning (preferably better than some of my choices...) and profit. Or KV-2.  :medal:

satakuua #8 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:27 AM

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Why would HE need to cause any damage if it hits armour which is enough to negate it? Does not compute.

Yaccay #9 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:29 AM

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View PostTheTankGarage, on 03 July 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

I just almost lost a game because I couldn't get through a JPanther II with HE shells. Just kept bouncing him until he got lucky and hit me. And it's not the only time, I'd say the only time HE does damage is when you have an angle on a tank that normal ammo will probably also do damage, it's completely useless.

 

.....

Then use AP (or APCR or HEAT) shell.



ZlatanArKung #10 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:32 AM

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View PostNiemandXL, on 03 July 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

It would probably be a good idea to have HE always do at least a minimum amount of damage. Let's say 10% or 15% for example. Because as it stands HE is pretty much useless for low caliber cannons. Doing always at least some damage would make HE a more viable ammo choice. Because all those "hit tracks or gun and do zero damage shots" basically mean it's almost never worth to load HE.

 

No, just no.

HE doesn't need to always do damage.

 

They need a slightly different dmg calculation, so non penning HE does less dmg then now.



NiemandXL #11 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:34 AM

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View PostZe_HOFF_fverhoef, on 03 July 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

 

Maybe also minor stuns?

 

Not sure about that. Imagine a T-34 (the Russian tier 5) which has like a second something reload with the small gun just spamming HE at someone. Getting perma-stunned by high fire rate pew pew guns would probably get very annoying very fast.

Edited by NiemandXL, 03 July 2017 - 11:34 AM.


AvalancheZ257 #12 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:37 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 03 July 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

 

probably.

yet on the other side of the spectrum, the dreaded type 4 and type 5 always do a shitload of damage with their derp guns, and arty still does way too much damage because it became so precise.

 

I would vote for all of the following:

- HE should do less maximum damage, especially arty

- spall liners should be much more effective, both against damage and stun

- HE should do 10% minimum damage

 

HE should deal minimum damage only if it doesn't have to burn through space armour first. If it has to go through spaced armour, then no damage from that shot is perfectly reasonable. 

Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #13 Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:40 AM

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View PostNiemandXL, on 03 July 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

Not sure about that. Imagine a T-34 (the Russian tier 5) which has like a second something reload with the small gun just spamming HE at someone. Getting perma-stunned by high fire rate pew pew guns would probably get very annoying very fast.

Makes sense though... must be highly annoying to have all those explosions outside. Maybe a 1 sec stun :P

 

To be honest, I think HE works as intended. low calibre HE won't harm a well armoured tank. Maybe do a minimum of 1hp of damage, because the paint get scratched. If it's raining, that spot might start rusting making it a weaker spot in the long term.



unhappy_bunny #14 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:30 PM

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I saw the thread title and thought

"Who seriously needs to stop doing any damage?"

 

Then I realised the HE was in capital letters, so I thought

 

"Why is God doing damage and to whom?"

 

And then I thought

"If God is playing WoT I wonder what his WN8 will be?"

 

Does anyone know God's in-game nickname?  (claims from players with less than 100% wr will be ignored).



LR130 #15 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:35 PM

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HE is GOD!

gpalsson #16 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:42 PM

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HE should never penetrate and should do a minimum amount of damage along with a lower (than current) cap on max damage.

That would make the HE ammo much more reliable and would serve to make the current issues with arty targeting LTs because of excessive damage less frequent.


Edited by gpalsson, 03 July 2017 - 12:42 PM.


Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #17 Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:47 PM

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View Postunhappy_bunny, on 03 July 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

I saw the thread title and thought

"Who seriously needs to stop doing any damage?"

 

Then I realised the HE was in capital letters, so I thought

 

"Why is God doing damage and to whom?"

 

And then I thought

"If God is playing WoT I wonder what his WN8 will be?"

 

Does anyone know God's in-game nickname?  (claims from players with less than 100% wr will be ignored).

 

If HE is God, then HE must be a Type 5.

HeidenSieker #18 Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:00 PM

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"HE seriously needs to stop not doing any damage"

 

I had to read that again after your OP. How about "HE needs to start doing damage"?



Balc0ra #19 Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:12 PM

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View PostNiemandXL, on 03 July 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

It would probably be a good idea to have HE always do at least a minimum amount of damage. Let's say 10% or 15% for example. Because as it stands HE is pretty much useless for low caliber cannons. Doing always at least some damage would make HE a more viable ammo choice. Because all those "hit tracks or gun and do zero damage shots" basically mean it's almost never worth to load HE.

 

15% if you hit tracks or the gun? I mean most times HE does damage based on what armor is in his splash radius. And if you hit the tip of the barrel... miles away from any armor. Then no... 15% is not something he should do IMO. 

 

But I suspect OP did hit the mantle armor. And on some low caliber HE shells with low pen vs that structure. Zero damage can occur. As HE shells when it hits armor thicker then it's penetration will still "burn" trough it. But the thicker it is, the less damage it will do. Until it reaches a max burn distance. Vs that thick armor, zero damage will happen. Something that is no unusual for HE shells lower then 100mm in caliber due to their low HE pen vs a tanks superstructure. As the HE "beam" if you will won't burn past all of it to even do more damage then a zippo would do internally.  I mean if it did 15% damage regardless of armor thickness or modules, then even an MS-1 could HE spam a Maus and do low low damage to it. So you are basically suggesting that unlike HEAT that also losses effectiveness after impact, HE should get unlimited burn distance vs thick armor and modules?  It's the reason why I never had HE ammo on the 103 gun on the Luchs. As even vs the Tiger II back in the day. It was 100% useless to use as a base reset tool due to the caliber and HE pen vs their armor.

 

HE shells on low caliber guns are more for toasters and module damage then trying to pen a 230mm effective superstructure.

 

OP just needed to aim at a different spot vs the area around the gun if it was hull down. Then again I don't know what gun he used vs it. Or his HE pen. But if it was 76mm etc. He was rather optimistic.


Edited by Balc0ra, 03 July 2017 - 01:14 PM.





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