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So this 3-5-7, etc., new MM BS


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qpranger #1 Posted 03 July 2017 - 08:43 PM

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Take tier 8 for example, normal tanks (no preferential MM). Am I actually mathematically guaranteed some (infinitely small) percentage of battles where I will not see tier 9 and 10 enemies? If yes, what should that percentage be? If no guarantee, then Edited honestly? And in any case, how do those WG geniuses who came up with this "improved" MM are going to recoup reduced tier 8 premium tank sales? 

Edited by Asklepi0s, 04 July 2017 - 10:15 AM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


psychobear #2 Posted 03 July 2017 - 08:53 PM

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View Postqpranger, on 03 July 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

Take tier 8 for example, normal tanks (no preferential MM). Am I actually mathematically guaranteed some (infinitely small) percentage of battles where I will not see tier 9 and 10 enemies? If yes, what should that percentage be? If no guarantee, then Edited  honestly? And in any case, how do those WG geniuses who came up with this "improved" MM are going to recoup reduced tier 8 premium tank sales? 

 

Well, if you buy a tier 8 tank (prem or not), you're guaranteed to be top tier first game you play it. After that, everything gets "fair and balanced", or as some would say don't worry tovarischi, it's completely random so it will even out in the end. You're getting constantly bottom tier? Not a problem at all, you just play a few hundred thousands more battles, and it will even out, da?


Edited by Asklepi0s, 04 July 2017 - 10:16 AM.


Junglist_ #3 Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:01 PM

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View PostGepard_PH, on 27 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

 

We are monitoring how matchmaker works very closely and actually it is nothing like what you described. I just checked in what battle levels Tier 8 tanks end up and all across the board it's 30ish % for each: T8 (so on top), T9 (so mid-tier) and T10 (so as bottom tier).

 

One-tier battles are not bad, but they are not as interesting from gameplay perspective as 2- or 3-tier battles. I'm sure there are players who don't mind facing vehicles of the same tier all day long, but there are also many players who simply enjoy being on top (against lower tier tanks), and that comes at a price of playing against higher tier tanks from time to time. 

 

As you can see according to WG PC PC its all fine and working as intended



NiemandXL #4 Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:09 PM

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View PostJunglist_, on 03 July 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

 

As you can see according to WG PC PC its all fine and working as intended

 

 I guess I'm only imagining seeing tier X tanks in at least 80% of my battles when playing a tier 8 then... such vivid imagination...

trefferlage #5 Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:35 PM

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View PostJunglist_, on 03 July 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

 

As you can see according to WG PC PC its all fine and working as intended

 

WG staff is like the three apes : they don t see, they don t speak, they don t hear. and this explains the rapid downfall of this game 

ZlatanArKung #6 Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:42 PM

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View PostJunglist_, on 03 July 2017 - 09:01 PM, said:

 

As you can see according to WG PC PC its all fine and working as intended

 

Interesting they have data which contradicts every data pulled from various players on forum playing T8 tank.

 

Probably same data that says Ranked battles is liked.



IncandescentGerbil #7 Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:43 PM

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The only tier 8 I play nowadays is my sole premium, the mod 1. Bottom tier approx 80% of time, the 3-5-7 split being more common than the 5-10 or whatever it is. Maybe 15% same tier game. Which leaves about 5% top tier. Last time it happened, I got ace tanker. Go figure.

signal11th #8 Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:49 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 03 July 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

 

Interesting they have data which contradicts every data pulled from various players on forum playing T8 tank.

 

Probably same data that says Ranked battles is liked.

 



jugilismaani #9 Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:56 PM

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I have a feeling their data includes pref. mm tanks and tier 8 clan battles when calculating how ofter tier 8 sees 10 :girl:

Boo_Bee #10 Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:07 PM

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View PostJunglist_, on 03 July 2017 - 09:01 PM, said:

 

As you can see according to WG PC PC its all fine and working as intended

 

PC does his weekly report of "Errrrr.... yeah.... MM works good boss" and the EUCM does his weekly report of  "Errrrr.......... nobody was threatened and no CCs quit this week boss, so all the players are happy".

 

Don't ya just love the "crap, I better say it's fine or I will get fired coz it's not" style?



SABAOTH #11 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:10 AM

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I am just curios if anybody checked on a model if is not the 3 Tier X 5 Tier 9 7 Tier 8 formula that causes this issue.

 

I mean, if when you play a tier 10 you are expected to meet 7 tier 8, and since there is not infinite number of players at every tier. Anyone bothered to model this?



Kozzy #12 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:21 AM

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View Postqpranger, on 03 July 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

Take tier 8 for example, normal tanks (no preferential MM). Am I actually mathematically guaranteed some (infinitely small) percentage of battles where I will not see tier 9 and 10 enemies? If yes, what should that percentage be? If no guarantee, then Edited honestly? And in any case, how do those WG geniuses who came up with this "improved" MM are going to recoup reduced tier 8 premium tank sales? 

 

A few people have been actively gathering stats on this, why not join them so you can work out, over the course of say 300 battles, a rough average of tiers played against while using a tier 8 tank?

 

I suggest reading this thread and adding to it:

Achibot's thread on MM spread


Edited by Asklepi0s, 04 July 2017 - 10:21 AM.


h4ctor #13 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:23 AM

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as a tier 8 in 3-5-7 you have 20% chance to be on top,33% chance to be in the middle and 47% chance to be on the bottom which is pretty close to what i was getting when i grinded credits for like 3 weeks straight...realistically tho if you include 5-10MM and same tier MM,you will not be in tier X every other game

 

all those people claiming they play tierX 80% of times are liars,simple as that



Dr_Oolen #14 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:36 AM

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View Postpsychobear, on 03 July 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

 

Well, if you buy a tier 8 tank (prem or not), you're guaranteed to be top tier first game you play it. After that, everything gets "fair and balanced", or as some would say don't worry tovarischi, it's completely random so it will even out in the end. You're getting constantly bottom tier? Not a problem at all, you just play a few hundred thousands more battles, and it will even out, da?

 

"guaranteed top tier on first game" certainly isnt a thing anymore, on two occasions since the new mm i wasnt top tier in my first game on new tank :)

 

MM working as intended. Nothing will even out on t8 tanks in this mm, 80%+ of the games will be T10 until wg get their craptogether. But when they do it will become even more obvious how op the new t8 prems are so i imagine they arent in a hurry despite perfectly knowing theres a problem. Also, wg should just be done with +-2 altogether and switch to +-1. Im 100% sure the only reason +-2 is still a thing is because in +-1 people wouldnt have to spam prem ammo 24/7 and throw money at wg.



qpranger #15 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:48 AM

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View PostKozzy, on 04 July 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

 

A few people have been actively gathering stats on this, why not join them so you can work out, over the course of say 300 battles, a rough average of tiers played against while using a tier 8 tank?

 

I suggest reading this thread and adding to it:

Achibot's thread on MM spread

 

That is too mathematical for me, I just want to rant irrationally.

Noo_Noo #16 Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:28 AM

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I've pretty much given up on tier 8 because of this which leaves me in a quandary over what to do with my Premium tanks and how to get some of the tier 9 and 10 tanks i was ultimately aiming for. 

This was discussed in some depth on another thread where I believe the issue is tier 10. Tier 10 has 3 MM options which puts a huge pressure on the tiers below it. It gets 

3-5-7

tier 10 flat and 

mix of tier 9 and 10.

The switch to a preferred 3-5-7 MM means for most tier 10 games you need 7 (14 actually) tier 8 tanks. This simply sucks the pot dry and as a result I was like many just not getting any games where I was top tier at tier 8. A few flat tier 8 games yes but none against tier 6 and 7's. I also suspect that there's a something in the MM for premium vehicles. Cant prove anything of course. just a feeling.

I actually wonder if WG have the numbers here now. I would hazard a guess that results / stats for tier 8 tanks should be falling while tier 10's are probably increasing. 

Either way the only way I feel that you can play tier 8 now is with certain premium vehicles and there's plenty of discussions on which one's they are.



iztok #17 Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:29 AM

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Hi!

> So this 3-5-7, etc., new MM BS

Yada, yada, yada. :(

With my ScorpG and no platooning I've been top tier in about 25% of battles from 320 battles sample. I've started collecting data with patch, that introduced the 3-5-7 MM, and missed making note in 3 (three) battles.

 

BR,  Iztok


Edited by iztok, 04 July 2017 - 09:32 AM.


Bora_BOOM #18 Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:40 AM

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3-5-7 is "flawless".

Whenever I play T8 I feel like 80% of the games I am bottom tier, and seeing T10 regularly too.

Then I decide to trick the system and take a T10 tank into a game.

I get in 15 vs 15 T10 game.

And no, this is not statistical, its empirical. :sceptic:

Damn.



Aikl #19 Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:52 AM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 04 July 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

I am just curios if anybody checked on a model if is not the 3 Tier X 5 Tier 9 7 Tier 8 formula that causes this issue.

 

I mean, if when you play a tier 10 you are expected to meet 7 tier 8, and since there is not infinite number of players at every tier. Anyone bothered to model this?

 

You don't need a model to check it. It's a bit hard to explain, but the numbers simply don't add up like that. It all comes down to 3-5-7 being a brilliant idea that creates more of the problem it's trying to solve. Even at optimal numbers, you'd get to be top-tier 20% of the time (which is not the case). Previously, the general consensus was ~33% - as you would expect.

 

3-5-7 is a good pattern when it's needed, but it should not be the priority pattern. I kind of preferred being a 'trve' bottom-feeder in the old T8-10 games - as even in 3-5-7 the top tiers still decide the battle. In effect it doesn't really change anything - if anything it makes the probability of a 'super loss' (steamroll/roflstomp/15-0) even higher, because the sample size for the top-tiers are less. If two of your three top-tier tanks are camping base or going valley/beach/suicides and the enemy actually do their thing, you're usually screwed.:great:

 

Also, 3-5-7 is supposedly the priority pattern, and previous tier distribution data would suggest that 3-5-7 is roughly equal to T10-T9-T8 distribution. Maybe there's not enough T10 for it at any time, but you can still make a 5-10 (or whatever) with T9-8. T9 being inherently quite strong makes that a 'fun challenge' as well.

 

View PostZlatanArKung, on 03 July 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

 

Interesting they have data which contradicts every data pulled from various players on forum playing T8 tank.

 

Probably same data that says Ranked battles is liked.

 

Look what I found on https://www.worldoft...agenerator.html!

 

 

1Codegate reference, where bonus codes were stored unsecurely as images on the server. :D

 

View PostJunglist_, on 03 July 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

 

As you can see according to WG PC PC its all fine and working as intended

 

What I find really funny is how it's basically statistically impossible to get ~30% top-/mid-/bottom-tier games in a 3-5-7 distribution. If you include single-tier T8 battles it is actually possible, but that doesn't really fit my definition of top-tier (even if I don't really mind single-tier battles). That's not really what WG intends (?) for the 3-5-7 pattern anyway - that you get to beat up bottom-tier tanks on a regular basis.

 

 

...oh, I guess T10 gets to do that. Better buy some Fort Knox and delve into the illusion of being a superior player even though the reason is that T10 tanks are top-tier all the time


Edited by Aikl, 04 July 2017 - 09:54 AM.


Unforgiving_Destiny #20 Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:57 AM

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Whenever i play tier 10 , more than 90% of the times it is tier 12 (all tanks tier 10) and whenever i play tier 8 99% of the times i see tier 10 so i really don't know who is top tier and when !!!!! :amazed: 

With old MM at least you could be top tier sometimes but with this one ? nah 99% you see tier 10 in your tier 8 .






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