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Arty player question: Red Ball or Skill?


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SABAOTH #1 Posted 04 July 2017 - 07:54 PM

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It is probably bad taste to launch this sort of accusations, since it is impossible to prove it. Nevertheless I was baffled by the last match where I played arty and I was countered perfectly for the entire match.

 

Let me elaborate before yelling at me: :P

 

We played Highway, my team was on the city side and there was 1 arty per team: me and this guy

 

Spoiler

 

Note: I cut off the name of the player because I might be just terribly wrong, but he is not a very skilled one.

 

My perplexity is that this guy was able to perfectly counter me anywhere on the map (of course withing the map constraints for arty)

 

---

A bit more details:

We started the match, I checked the opposite arty, saw he is a 46% tomato, decided he was not a threat. By the way I positioned in the middle of the ridge to cover better the city as our meds wanted to camp base.

 

I fired once, after about 10 seconds got hit. :arta:

 

Ok, I underestimate this guy, let's relocate 2 squares away.

 

Next time I fire I move immediatly, and keep watching my spot, after around 20 seconds the arty shells hit perfectly there.

 

uhmmm... starting to look fishy, so I relocate to the corner of the map. Fire, relocate, watch and again after about 20 seconds the arty hit the spot perfectly.

I try couple of times more (6 times) to choose random locations: no way he always nailed the spot, if I would not move I would be blasted away.

 

----

 

Now I am perfectly aware how to pre aim and watch for a tracer to counter the enemy arty, and I know that when enemy arty is blue is pretty risky to choose the usual spots and not to move after firing.

 

WIth tomato arties however is usually pretty safe to sit anywhere and forget about the risk to be countered. But this guy was countering like a boss, able to predict every different spot where I could relocate and perfectly hit the exact point after several seconds with surgical precision. And he was never getting frustrated that he kept missing me: he was confidently focusing on hunting me across a large area and blind shooting where I was. :ohmy:

 

I know for a fact that I would never try a counter if I dont see the tracer and shoot in the same moment, because if the guy relocates is time wasted. I also do not have any idea how to get a tracer that is several squares away from where I found it last time.

 

In conclusion: is there some kind of trick that allows an SPG player to identify a relocating arty (that is relocating more than a few meters obviously) with such precision? Or is possible that this guy was using an illegal mod (it is called red ball and I am pretty sure it is illegal) to instantly get my position on the minimap and start aiming where I was? :amazed:

 

(To avoid any confusion I have sixth sense, I was unspotted the whole time [until the end when enemy meds entered the base and killed me like a dog clicker of course :izmena:)

 

Once again, it might be lame and rude from my side to suspect this player, he raised the recent WN8 by almost 50% after all, so he might just got good at the game  (in this case he is faaaar better than me as I know I cannot perform such feats in countering, I need to preaim or to hunt for tracer for a while).

 

Tell me what you think, and please if you are experienced clickers and know how to perform this kind of feats through skills I might learn something really useful to improve. :honoring:

 

p.S> I am not salty on him because he failed to get me whatever effort he made, but I was really shocked to see such precision despite so big delay and far away re-positioning. He did counter perfectly, if I would have not relocated even once I would be dead. :ohmy: I just did not expected something like that from a player his level.


Edited by SABAOTH, 05 July 2017 - 03:09 PM.


Jigabachi #2 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:00 PM

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You forgot to add the replay...

gullungen #3 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:04 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 04 July 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

You forgot to add the replay...

 

Idk, but could WG somehow call that naming and shaming?

SABAOTH #4 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:05 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 04 July 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

You forgot to add the replay...

 

I do not have the replay, and it would be shaming him (and he might be perfectly innocent).

 

I might be completely off with this suspicion. I just wonder if it is possible to achive similar feats (without using any cheat, of course I know about red ball but I believe is banned mod). Maybe some experienced SPG player can enlighten me about the strategy to counter a relocating enemy.

 

I cannot successfully counter someone if he is not in the square I am preaiming. But that is my limit, it might be possible to do.



ZAPPED_BY_ME #5 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:12 PM

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Counterbattery is easy.  If the target does not reposition after every shot, and if they do reposition, not alternating shots from same 2 positions.

Also, most maps have known spots for arty.  So anyone that has played enough games in arty knows more or less where the enemy arty is at.


 

Also, you forget that now, all arty have much bigger splash radius.  So while they may not kill you they will stun you.  And also, even if you start to reposition right after the shot, the increased splash radius can catch you while repositioning.


 



FluffyRedFox #6 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:13 PM

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This is why you don't use XVM....

Anyway, I wouldn't class it as suspicious, just someone who is really eager to get arty kills. Counter battery isn't exactly difficult and its even easier with the new arty sight so any old muppet can do it. 



Jigabachi #7 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:15 PM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 04 July 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

I do not have the replay, and it would be shaming him (and he might be perfectly innocent).

I think the mods stopped that nonsense a while ago. If it's a proper discussion for a good cause, I doubt that they would have a problem with that.

But without a replay it's pretty much impossible to judge.



EggyTheGumGumChewer #8 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:19 PM

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Sounds a bit fishy if he manages to shoot your exact location even if you move to another square. If you don't have the replay, there's probably nothing to do about it now though.

Orkbert #9 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:20 PM

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Block Quote

By the way I positioned in the middle of the ridge

 

Then I have to ask, do you have Sixth Sense active on the arty you were using?

SABAOTH #10 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:21 PM

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View PostZAPPED_BY_ME, on 04 July 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

Counterbattery is easy.  If the target does not reposition after every shot, and if they do reposition, not alternating shots from same 2 positions.

Also, most maps have known spots for arty.  So anyone that has played enough games in arty knows more or less where the enemy arty is at.


 

Also, you forget that now, all arty have much bigger splash radius.  So while they may not kill you they will stun you.  And also, even if you start to reposition right after the shot, the increased splash radius can catch you while repositioning.


 

 

I am aware of it, that is why I noted the following:

  • I did not position in the usual arty pig pen but went close to the city because our meds camped the hill in the base and that flank was lost from the start
  • HE hit me the first time (I survived with few hp), after that I realized I grossly underestimated him and I relocated 2 squares away.
  • The splash did never get me a second time, because every time after the first there was a large time between my shot and the counter, around 20 seconds. I imagin this means he noticed my shot was not where he preaimed, he turned, aimed fully and hit the perfect spot where I was 20 seconds ago.

 

I can counter arty successfully, but I need to see the tracer where I preaim. Is not the countering that surprised me, but I would like to know how to counter with so long time between shots and so large area of relocation. :)



Suurpolskija #11 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:30 PM

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From what my experiences are for a whole lot of counter battery for missions...

Yeah, sounds like some kind of illegal mod usage.

You can zoom out quite far though and if ypu got like extra sharp sight then maybe. But highly unlikely, just like you said.

_b_ #12 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:37 PM

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Being unspotted and moving around like you describe, does indeed sound fishy ... mark the nick and next ban-wave check to see if said account is inactive? :D

SABAOTH #13 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:41 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 04 July 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

I think the mods stopped that nonsense a while ago. If it's a proper discussion for a good cause, I doubt that they would have a problem with that.

But without a replay it's pretty much impossible to judge.

 

You are right, nevertheless I don't think a replay would show more than a very skilled counterer. I cannot judge nor I want to, my question is if it is possible to do a countering consistently when the enemy is relocating 2 squares away.

 

View PostEggyTheGumGumChewer, on 04 July 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

Sounds a bit fishy if he manages to shoot your exact location even if you move to another square. If you don't have the replay, there's probably nothing to do about it now though.

 

I moved 2 squares down to the city, then up to the corner of the map about 4 squares away from the second location. Because if you have a zoom out you might stil see only 2 squares away. (I remember it was hard to judge the exact position of the tracer however, you might want to wait for the second zooming closer. He did not need it to nail the point)

 

View PostOrkbert, on 04 July 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

 

Then I have to ask, do you have Sixth Sense active on the arty you were using?

 

Sixth sense, BIA and camo.

 

Sixth sense went off only in the end when a lorr came to punish my bad clicking habits. (and funny, the moment I got spotted the arty rushed to shoot me and he missed me by a mile, he did not have time to close the reticle, so he was not pre aiming the position. But this time he did not have 20 seconds to aim carefully as the lorr blasted me in 2 shots :P)



Jigabachi #14 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:45 PM

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If something like that happens again, contact the player and ask how he did it. If he isn't guilty, he shouldn't mind uploading the replay...

SABAOTH #15 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:52 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 04 July 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

If something like that happens again, contact the player and ask how he did it. If he isn't guilty, he shouldn't mind uploading the replay...

 

I tried to ask him just that, he was not very...... nice. I just blacklisted him. :facepalm:

jabster #16 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:54 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 04 July 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

I think the mods stopped that nonsense a while ago. If it's a proper discussion for a good cause, I doubt that they would have a problem with that.

But without a replay it's pretty much impossible to judge.

 

There's been a few threads recently which the mods have edited for adding replays. If anything I'd say they've got more strict on naming and shaming not less.



Arty_Loves_You #17 Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:58 PM

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For what it's worth, I'd say red dot. Without question.

 

I say this based on the fact that you moved 2 squares away and he still found you after 1 shot. Luck? No. I don't buy that for a single microsecond. The red dot cheat is confirmed in my mind.

 

I've had a few games in arty just like this. 100% not spotted, 100% countered after every shot (obviously I moved so he missed).



SABAOTH #18 Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:11 PM

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View PostArty_Loves_You, on 04 July 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

For what it's worth, I'd say red dot. Without question.

 

I say this based on the fact that you moved 2 squares away and he still found you after 1 shot. Luck? No. I don't buy that for a single microsecond. The red dot cheat is confirmed in my mind.

 

I've had a few games in arty just like this. 100% not spotted, 100% countered after every shot (obviously I moved so he missed).

 

Believe it or not I waswaiting for Arty_Loves_you's opinion as a long timer arty player. :girl:

 

so do you think there is/ there isn't-  a way to follow a relocating spg?



Arty_Loves_You #19 Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:19 PM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 04 July 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

 

Believe it or not I waswaiting for Arty_Loves_you's opinion as a long timer arty player. :girl:

 

so do you think there is/ there isn't-  a way to follow a relocating spg?

 

No.

 

As long as you don't destroy destructibles and leave a trail. I'm assuming you didn't. I know I'm very careful about trees, but also small fences, as they can be seen to be broken in the enemy arty view mode.

 

Moving 2 squares is a quantum leap for an arty player, usually 3 or 4 arty lengths are enough to avoid a counter.



SABAOTH #20 Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:23 PM

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View PostArty_Loves_You, on 04 July 2017 - 09:19 PM, said:

 

No.

 

As long as you don't destroy destructibles and leave a trail. I'm assuming you didn't. I know I'm very careful about trees, but also small fences, as they can be seen to be broken in the enemy arty view mode.

 

Moving 2 squares is a quantum leap for an arty player, usually 3 or 4 arty lengths are enough to avoid a counter.

 

On that side of Highway is plenty of room with no destructible objects as you know.

 

There was nothing that my SPG could interact with. I am avoiding it the most when I play SPG because I know I am looking for those signs to start hunting for tracers or hit heavy tanks obvious spots when the enemy got slow heavies in the rooster.






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